bow hunters vs other hunters

[Sogaard]

You forgot COUGARS!

[ncountry]

And upstate vs downstateSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lol...You guys are all downstaters to me..

[Jeremy K]

When was the last time you saw someone pumping gas in their hunting clothes during archery season . That says a lot about comparing gun hunting to archery hunting.

[NFA-ADK]

Interesting. Mr. Stubby, welcome to the forum. Could you please share your thoughts on the following?

Antler restrictions

Baiting

the safe act

Aliens

bigfoot

The youth hunt

treestands

Long Island Deer cull?  15,000$ to kill 22 deer in the town of North Haven.  No way bow hunters could have done this good, LOL.  Pathetic use of tax payer money. 

 

http://easthamptonstar.com/?q=News/2012705/Deer-Town-Sights

 

 

 

Dam NCountry you are way up North but not the furthest on this forum.  Dam I am cold now.  lol

 

Urban and farm hunting is vastly different from public land hunting.  If you do not understand this as fact you need to try both.  Hunter population and deer per square mile can be vastly different.  Soil, topography, canopy I could go on, simply put sounds like you are in a great area and are pretty pissed off.

 

Do you still have access to this farm?  Did other bow hunters kick you out?

 

Otherwise simply reread GMan's post, he hit the nail on the head. 

[stubby68]

               Only a couple serious answers .Typical of most of today's bow hunters.Avoid the topic  by degrading the one who brought it up. There must be some truth to what I said  other wise you all would have argued your side.Instead you instantly took to trying to degrade me, funny how that works.If you were truly the elite as you like to think then you would have tried to change my mind. Just proofs my point about most of today's bow hunters.                                                                                                                                                     Sogaard how many deer are dropped dead in there tracks with a bow? a lot less then with a gun I bet.                                                                                                                                   G-Man are you saying gun hunters don't do those same things? If so you are wrong there are  plenty out there that do and who know there pray as well or better then a bow hunter.As for new hunters starting with a gun.For many years they have been able to start bow hunting long before gun.It was not until resent years that you could hunt deer with gun before you were 16. 

Edited April 1, 2014 by stubby68

[SteveB]

Again NO ONE avoided it.

It just ridiculous and received the type of attention deserved to someone who says bowhunting is easier and he just walks up to older bucks and shoots them with a bow in open fields.

[Doc]

               Only a couple serious answers .Typical of most of today's bow hunters.Avoid the topic  by degrading the one who brought it up. There must be some truth to what I said  other wise you all would have argued your side.Instead you instantly took to trying to degrade me, funny how that works.If you were truly the elite as you like to think then you would have tried to change my mind. Just proofs my point about most of today's bow hunters.                                                                                                                                                     Sogaard how many deer are dropped dead in there tracks with a bow? a lot less then with a gun I bet.                                                                                                                                   G-Man are you saying gun hunters don't do those same things? If so you are wrong there are  plenty out there that do and who know there pray as well or better then a bow hunter.As for new hunters starting with a gun.For many years they have been able to start bow hunting long before gun.It was not until resent years that you could hunt deer with gun before you were 16. 

I hope you other bowhunters are paying as much attention to this guy as I am. Understand that he is really putting to words what a whole lot of gun hunters actually think.  He is not alone in all this kind of crazy talk. The hatred of bowhunters is not isolated to this one guy. I hear more and more of it from more and more gun hunters. Also, understand that we bowhunters are in the tiny minority, and really don't have the luxury of simply casting off this kind of aggressive attitude as simply the ravings of the ignorant and uninformed. This guy and the venom he is spewing is shared by more people than we want to think.

 

So while the initial inclination is to simply write him off as a jerk, take a minute or two to listen to the fact that there is a growing rift between bow hunters and gun hunters. Never mind that it sounds like the ravings of ignorance, and pay attention to the fact that bowhunting is under attack like we have never experienced before. It's not just the animal rights crowd anymore. It is the jealous feelings that many gun hunters are starting to feel over the season lengths, and timing. It is the growing success rates that we are enjoying. You are seeing words like "elite", and complaints about what is perceived as preferential treatments. Yes, this guy sounds like a wacko, but don't let his senseless ravings hide the fact that there really is an aggressive divide developing between gun hunters and bow hunters. Don't ask me what we should be doing about it, but the first thing that needs to happen is to understand that it is happening. 

[Arrow Flinger]

I hope you other bowhunters are paying as much attention to this guy as I am. Understand that he is really putting to words what a whole lot of gun hunters actually think.  He is not alone in all this kind of crazy talk. The hatred of bowhunters is not isolated to this one guy. I hear more and more of it from more and more gun hunters. Also, understand that we bowhunters are in the tiny minority, and really don't have the luxury of simply casting off this kind of aggressive attitude as simply the ravings of the ignorant and uninformed. This guy and the venom he is spewing is shared by more people than we want to think.

 

So while the initial inclination is to simply write him off as a jerk, take a minute or two to listen to the fact that there is a growing rift between bow hunters and gun hunters. Never mind that it sounds like the ravings of ignorance, and pay attention to the fact that bowhunting is under attack like we have never experienced before. It's not just the animal rights crowd anymore. It is the jealous feelings that many gun hunters are starting to feel over the season lengths, and timing. It is the growing success rates that we are enjoying. You are seeing words like "elite", and complaints about what is perceived as preferential treatments. Yes, this guy sounds like a wacko, but don't let his senseless ravings hide the fact that there really is an aggressive divide developing between gun hunters and bow hunters. Don't ask me what we should be doing about it, but the first thing that needs to happen is to understand that it is happening. 

 

Its been happening for a long time now Doc. Why do you think they put all these special seasons into Archery season? If you take out the youth season and the part they stuck X Bows in, we are left with a couple weeks of October hunting and that will be where they end up sticking a special early muzzy season. Bowhunters no longer have a voice in NY and I don't know if we really ever did! The DEC doesn't ever mess with gun season.....except to try to make it better (Saturday opener)

[d-bone20917]

Its been happening for a long time now Doc. Why do you think they put all these special seasons into Archery season? If you take out the youth season and the part they stuck X Bows in, we are left with a couple weeks of October hunting and that will be where they end up sticking a special early muzzy season. Bowhunters no longer have a voice in NY and I don't know if we really ever did! The DEC doesn't ever mess with gun season.....except to try to make it better (Saturday opener)

 

The season is even shorter for those hunting the northern zone.  

[Doc]

I was at one of the "state of the herd" DEC meetings a couple years back and overheard a couple of DEC employees having a conversation about bow hunters. I'm not sure how wide spread the attitude is in the DEC, but these guys were basically saying that bowhunters are a bunch of buck-shooters. They were saying that we are basically ineffective at population control and that we occupy a large part of the best time for deer hunting in what they considered a "waste" of valuable deer harvest time. That may explain their desire to see more effective weapons used during that time. Perhaps that is why it is bow season that is continually chosen for the inclusions of these "more effective" weapons. I don't know, but I just offer this as a possible explanation as to why the DEC always seems to be the willing accomplice when it comes to these kinds of matters.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

In the future, the majority of the very few new kids that get into hunting will not start out with a compound if they can just use a scoped xbow. Its all about making it easy to kill deer and do whatever it takes to keep tag sales as high as possible.

 The DEC will continue to feel the pinch as more old timers hang up their weapons and drive to Florida for the winters.

[Arrow Flinger]

10 years from now all the bowhunters will be talking about "the good ol' days" before X Bows were introduced.

[G-Man]

Doc , i agree with the dec officials you overheard, bow hunters look for a BIG BUCK more often than not. I really think archery should be an earn a buck tag especially in high population areas, 9f for example. we as a group pass many deer up waiting for the big one, the dec exists to manage deer numbers..thats it and that is controlled thru doe harvest.. the ar's bow hunters push for and place upon themselves are counter productive to teir goal. so why not get the brown its down group out there more.. problem is after you take a few doe with archery equipment even they will wait for a buck and some will transform into the wait for a big one mentality.

[stubby68]

                                   If it is ridiculous then why did I get any attention at all?You could have just ignored instead you guys start right in degrading and discrediting.I never said thye were older deer oldest deer I have in the pics is 3 1/2 most are 1 1/2 .nice antler size doesnt mean old deer .                                                                                                                                                      Doc bow hunters started calling themselfs elite,bow hunters are the ones who cry shorten gun season make it all bow season.It is bow hunters who complain that gun hunters are all brown and down trigger drunks.Bow hunters cry about anything the dec trys to to to help our sport as a whole.If it doesnt futher a bow hunting agenda then you guys are against.Tell me how cross bows or a 2 day youth hunt hurts your hunting when you have 6 weeks.By the way I have nothing against bow hunting at all as I said I use to bow hunt.I loved being out that time of year still do just dont carry bow anymore.I stopped when mor and more people started getting into bow hunting and all the crying started.                                                                                                                                                                                                              Gun hunters wouldnt mind cross bow dureing gub season you can already use a muzzle loader,rifle.bow,pistol,and shotgun during regular gun season and gun hunters have no prob with it.If dec wants to take 2 days from gun season for a youth hunt then gun hunters would say great,not all but most.                                                                                  Oh and bow hunters are the ones who yell antler restriction are needed or a one buck limit,or that are not any big bucks.When ask a bow hunter why ar he says it will help heard ask how he says it will make bigger racks.Then the gun hunter will say trophy hunting.Bow hunter will say no.Out of all the pics I posted the oldest is 3 1/2 3 are 2 1/2 and the rest are 1 1/2.Aged by dec biolgest.The oldest is the one with garfield on it the shoulder mount is only 2 1/2 .If we listen to bow hunters these are all but ony too young to shoot and ar will only let you shot older bucks.Not many guys on here would have let any of them walk.Also back when most of these bucks were gotten it was common to see and shoot bucks of this size.It wasnt special to see deer like this it is now bow hunters will tell you they dont see bucks like this because gun hunters shoot them all when they are yearlings.Just because a gun hunter shoots a spike or 3 point doesnt mean it is a young deer nor do 12 points mean old deer.I have noticed that with the rise in popullarty of bow hunting we have seen a decline in deer and nice bucks and a rise in crying.Again I am not against bow hunting just the atitude of todays bow hunter.If I or any other gun hunter[and for the record I am not a gun hunter I am a hunter period] are wrong in the way think about bow hunters then why not try to change the way we think? Not one bow hunter in here has tried to change my thinking.I made a statement and said why I thought that way.I expected to have people trying to change my thinking.Not one bow hunter has tried to do that.If I am uneducated and informed then why not try to educate and inform me.Nope the first thing a bow hunter does is degrade  and discredit anyone who thinks differently then they do.We are all hunters and there are a holes who carry all weapons we should come together as a whole sport not fight as bow hunter and gun hunter.As you can see by how all this went some hunters seem to want the devide.I made a statement and have been attacked from the start .Why not just descuse it and try to change peoples minds 

 

[G-Man]

stubby68, As you included all bow hunters as a lumped group i am guilty of doing the same with gun ...i am saying most gun (only) hunters do not do those same things nor do they put the time into the sport, hunting weekends or a weekend they huint the same stand for 30 years and complain about lack of deer when the habitat  has grown around them and the deer population has moved to better habitat. Although archery age is younger than gun for big game, most new hunters start with a gun usually a 22 for small game ,plinking , unless they have been or are exposed to archery by family or friends.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Great point G-man. It is much easier to get new participants into hunting with a gun that a bow. If you are self starting without anyone to show you the learning curve is mush higher with a bow.  bigger and longer learning curve equals more frustration.

[Doc]

 If I am uneducated and informed then why not try to educate and inform me.

It may be a bit hard for you to understand, but when a person comes off like a raving fool, it becomes obvious that they are not interested in becoming either educated or informed. At that point it is obvious that such attempts are simply a waste of breath and time. You may not have noticed, but this thread has already moved around you. Discussions have moved to being between reasonable people. Sorry, but I just have to tell you like it is. You are already becoming irrelevant within your own thread.

[Five Seasons]

I was at one of the "state of the herd" DEC meetings a couple years back and overheard a couple of DEC employees having a conversation about bow hunters. I'm not sure how wide spread the attitude is in the DEC, but these guys were basically saying that bowhunters are a bunch of buck-shooters. They were saying that we are basically ineffective at population control and that we occupy a large part of the best time for deer hunting in what they considered a "waste" of valuable deer harvest time. That may explain their desire to see more effective weapons used during that time. Perhaps that is why it is bow season that is continually chosen for the inclusions of these "more effective" weapons. I don't know, but I just offer this as a possible explanation as to why the DEC always seems to be the willing accomplice when it comes to these kinds of matters.

 

there is probably a lot of truth to bowhunters being "buck hunters". It's hard to argue that. Occupying the best time and managing herd is not what bow season is about though. When the guns go off my local butchers processing time goes from over night (archery) to 5 days. They stack em high, they put on drives, and a lot of deer are killed. I don't see the problem with the 2 seasons being the way they are. If anything, I'd push for a 1 buck limit or 2 buck tags to be used all season long regardless of weapon. Why can't I kill 2 bucks with a bow (without waiting till december) instead of 1 with a bow and 1 with gun?

[Five Seasons]

                                   If it is ridiculous then why did I get any attention at all?You could have just ignored instead you guys start right in degrading and discrediting.I never said thye were older deer oldest deer I have in the pics is 3 1/2 most are 1 1/2 .nice antler size doesnt mean old deer .          

 

it's the offseason and we're bored and you basically said hello to the site by insulting the majority of us. I think there's actually more bowhunters who also gun hunt than there are just gun hunters. I doubt you'd walk into a church and introduce yourself by claiming God doesn't exist right? But of course, it's much easier to insult peoples way of life behind a keyboard isn't it?

 

 

Great point G-man. It is much easier to get new participants into hunting with a gun that a bow. If you are self starting without anyone to show you the learning curve is mush higher with a bow.  bigger and longer learning curve equals more frustration.

 

at the age of 16 i received my browning as a Christmas present. I gun hunted at least 6 years before i was at a place in my life that I could buy a bow and devote time to become proficient with it. My love of deer season is really what prompted me to buy a bow and spend more time in the woods. Now after bow hunting almost 10 years I have fell in love with the archery season. I think most people get into archery after gun.

Edited April 1, 2014 by Belo

[Doc]

Occupying the best time and managing herd is not what bow season is about though.

That was the point of their conversation. They were lamenting the fact that that time spans has been essentially removed from being available for harvest management. What do you think is behind the DEC push for crossbows and the attempts to cram muzzleloaders into an early season? They are all about maximizing their abilities to cut populations. They know that if they go overboard, they can simply cut way back on permit numbers. It's not so easy to do the opposite. It is getting more and more difficult to hand out all the permits. and with hunter populations shrinking, it makes some areas where they simply cannot drop the population adequately. My area 8N comes immediately to mind where they have been pushing permit like crazy and the herd still is increasing. Anyway, I believe that they may be viewing bowhunters as "being in their way". And that does explain a whole lot of policy statements and positions and decisions.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

? They are all about maximizing their abilities to cut populations. They know that if they go overboard, they can simply cut way back on permit numbers. It's not so easy to do the opposite. It is getting more and more difficult to hand out all the permits. and with hunter populations shrinking, it makes some areas where they simply cannot drop the population adequately.

That is a tough line to walk though. License sales are not as easy to manage as doe permit numbers are.

[Doc]

That is a tough line to walk though. License sales are not as easy to manage as doe permit numbers are.

I think the idea is to at least have the capability to overshoot the mark since deer populations have been proven to come back rather quickly. But, it is starting to appear that there are limitations in some areas as to what large numbers of permits can achieve. And with so much of the potential harvest season being taken up with what they consider to be inefficient bowhunters, their options for cutting populations are limited. I can see the logic. I may not like it, but I do understand it.

 

Now granted, all this is strictly theory based on the conversation that I overheard plus some of the crazy, almost begging, that I have witnessed when it came to post application, permit peddling, and some of the policies and decisions that have been prevalent of late regarding the introduction or attempted introductions of more efficient weapons into the bowhunting time slot. But I must say that it is all starting to make some sense when it is all viewed in its entirety.

[mike rossi]

That was the point of their conversation. They were lamenting the fact that that time spans has been essentially removed from being available for harvest management. What do you think is behind the DEC push for crossbows and the attempts to cram muzzleloaders into an early season? They are all about maximizing their abilities to cut populations. They know that if they go overboard, they can simply cut way back on permit numbers. It's not so easy to do the opposite. It is getting more and more difficult to hand out all the permits. and with hunter populations shrinking, it makes some areas where they simply cannot drop the population adequately. My area 8N comes immediately to mind where they have been pushing permit like crazy and the herd still is increasing. Anyway, I believe that they may be viewing bowhunters as "being in their way". And that does explain a whole lot of policy statements and positions and decisions.

Doc,

 

I will take your word for it that (at least in some units) deer pops are increasing, because I don't pay attention to the pop trends of deer. But  the social carrying capacity changes too, which is basically peoples amount of tolerance for a species. When and where people want more or less deer enters into management decisions.

 

The old joke about science changing applies too. The latest science is recommending managing deer at much lower populations than previous, not only because of social desires but because deer are thought to lower biodiversity. Notice the crossbow post thanking the NY Farm Bureau - obviously farmers want less deer. But also notice the Nature Conservancy and Audubon Society - they are concerned with high deer populations impacting biodiversity, plus they are looking out for the conservation fund because they know hunting is the key funding strategy of conservation. I guess if the conservationists cant get wolves reintroduced and coyotes protected more they will settle for crossbows. Just curious, what would the bow hunters prefer to share the woods with, crossbow hunters or wild canines?

[Renegade Hunter]

              So tell me how hard bow hunting is.I never said I wait for the deer and then walk to my stand> I wait for them to start feeding then Walk slowly out to them in the field>I never used a stand or blind when I was bow hunting

 

 You say this is easy?? And you can do this easier with a bow than with a gun? 

 

If you can take a video of you walking through a field, up to shooting range of a deer, with a bow, during legal light, I will believe you and probably sh!t my pants. And you would have to do it multiple times seeing how it is so easy.

 

You probably take them off people's lawns in Ithaca.

Edited April 1, 2014 by Renegade Hunter

[Five Seasons]

That was the point of their conversation. They were lamenting the fact that that time spans has been essentially removed from being available for harvest management. What do you think is behind the DEC push for crossbows and the attempts to cram muzzleloaders into an early season? They are all about maximizing their abilities to cut populations. They know that if they go overboard, they can simply cut way back on permit numbers. It's not so easy to do the opposite. It is getting more and more difficult to hand out all the permits. and with hunter populations shrinking, it makes some areas where they simply cannot drop the population adequately. My area 8N comes immediately to mind where they have been pushing permit like crazy and the herd still is increasing. Anyway, I believe that they may be viewing bowhunters as "being in their way". And that does explain a whole lot of policy statements and positions and decisions.

 

I understand and agree. The issue is that most of us like our meat AND horns. I always fill my freezer, but I try to get some nice horns in the process. Make it hard enough to enjoy what we like about hunting and ruin a good thing and you'll have less hunters in the woods as well. More out of state trips for enjoyable, less pressured bigger bucks. There are ways to reduce heard and grow deer at the same time. And angering your most devoted horn hunters can have a ripple affect.