myths and facts...

[Merlot]

I'm going to check crossbows out at Belmont Archery and see what the fuss is all about.

[sits in trees]

I hope they allow Horton shooters,lol

Seriously SITS... I can appreciate what you and a few others have been trying to do here, but it's getting a little old listening to the anti-x nonsense, highjacking of posts, and "look at me" personalities in this section of the forum anymore. It's an already done deal... it's probably best to find a new site for pertinent information on the topic for me so thanks for the site tip there.

I'll be a first timer this year myself. I've found a few x-bow sites to follow along with this summer to get better acquainted with the fundamentals of "x-bowing 101", and some of the advanced aspects of gear prep, performance, and maintenance as well. Being a gun and bowhunter already, I'm pretty sure the rest is all up to me!

It's a different hunt that I'm looking forward to this season, so hopefully I can gather enough valuable basics this off season to not make any rookie mistakes when it really matters. Thanks for the tips you've passed along here so far.... I take them all into consideration being a newb to this new style of hunt!

Yea I myself have only used an xbow for maybe 5 or 6 years now and wouldn't consider myself an expert by a long stretch. One thing I haven't attempted yet is the dreaded re cock in the tree stand thing. Haven't ever had to do it and just never had the nerve to try it. I would probably climb down re cock and climb back up, lol.

[nyslowhand]

One last tip before I ride off into the sunset per Wooly's suggestion. Kidding, dude!

 

Xbow's with those illuminated scopes will drain those flat, watch type batteries overnight if left on! Carry an extra one while hunting.

[Five Seasons]

now I'm an anti. lol. The only anti is the governor who passed your bill... and that other one.

 

All I did was ask a question about new hunters... because that was the biggest argument for years... and sits said he knew of new hunters entering the woods, only to then say he didn't.

[biggamefish]

you for got in myth one to add scopes to them!!

[nyslowhand]

Certainly shouldn't be a revelation to anyone that knows anything about crossbows. They have scopes!

 

Biggest argument about Xbows is; What type of weapon are they? Definitely not a long gun or ML like NYS legislation is trying to define them. Has a string, cams, limbs and shoots a short arrow - So aren't they more like archery tackle? Guess it all depends on what side of the discussion you're on.

 

So. per your objection to Xbows......If you add this to a compound bow, is it no longer a bow, but more like a long gun? Putting legality aside..!

 

[Doc]

 

Biggest argument about Xbows is; What type of weapon are they? Definitely not a long gun or ML like NYS legislation is trying to define them. Has a string, cams, limbs and shoots a short arrow - So aren't they more like archery tackle? Guess it all depends on what side of the discussion you're on.

 

Why is it so difficult to understand that a crossbow is its own "type of weapon"? Everyone tries to cram it into this category or that category.  It has elements of other categories combined, but when you come right down to it, a crossbow is a crossbow. It's not "like" any other weapon. Just like a spear is a spear or a knife is a knife or a slingshot is a slingshot.

[Mossyberg500]

Why is it so difficult to understand that a crossbow is its own "type of weapon"? Everyone tries to cram it into this category or that category.  It has elements of other categories combined, but when you come right down to it, a crossbow is a crossbow. It's not "like" any other weapon. Just like a spear is a spear or a knife is a knife or a slingshot is a slingshot.

Exactly, agree 100%. But if crossbow was in any category it would be archery, it's even got bow (Hence the word "bow") in cross"bow" not crossgun. with all the facts and myths about crossbows there is more of a comparison with bow than a gun i will list my reasoning's.

Bow comparison

1. A crossbow shoots an arrow/bolt

2. Uses Limbs/Prods for shooting an arrow/bolt

3. A compound type crossbow uses Cams and Strings to shoot an arrow/bolt

a recurve type crossbow doesn't use cams but uses strings to shoot an arrow/bolt

Gun comparison

1. You can aim it like a firearm

2. You can use a scope on a crossbow, (but you can also use a open bead sight too on some crossbows)

The fact that a crossbow uses cams,strings,limbs and shoots an arrow/bolt

gives enough proof that it is more like a bow than a firearm.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Mossyberg500

[Doc]

Exactly, agree 100%. But if crossbow was in any category it would be archery, it's even got bow (Hence the word "bow") in cross"bow" not crossgun. with all the facts and myths about crossbows there is more of a comparison with bow than a gun i will list my reasoning's.

Bow comparison

1. A crossbow shoots an arrow/bolt

2. Uses Limbs/Prods for shooting an arrow/bolt

3. A compound type crossbow uses Cams and Strings to shoot an arrow/bolt

a recurve type crossbow doesn't use cams but uses strings to shoot an arrow/bolt

4. both are short range weapons.

5. Neither weapon propels the "payload" faster than the speed of sound.

Gun comparison

1. You can aim it like a firearm

2. You can use a scope on a crossbow, (but you can also use a open bead sight too on some crossbows)

3. You can use a bipod, or bench-rest it on any horizontal surface like any rifle, shotgun, or muzzleloader

4. You needn't actually move prior to touching off the trigger (as in drawing the string in the presence of the prey).

5. There is no restrictive form requirements Such as follow-through, arm, hand, head, anchor position, etc., etc. Like a gun, the crossbow does all of that for you.

6. Well, there is no need to go any farther with those things that have already been argued to death, over and over, and over ad infinitum, but as you can see, you left out a few of the biggies .... lol.

The fact that a crossbow uses cams,strings,limbs and shoots an arrow/bolt

gives enough proof that it is more like a bow than a firearm.

All any of that shows is that who ever wants to call it whatever, has some correct justification for their opinion regardless of where they want to categorize it. And neither is right or wrong. Making these kinds of comparisons serve no purpose other than to try to justify whatever opinion you want to argue for. It is all great if you want to perpetuate the controversy for some weird reason, but is very unlikely to change anyone's mind. It only serves to stir the pot and antagonize and divide hunters even further. The time for that kind of nonsense is over. Everybody had their say, and exerted as much pressure and influence as they could, and it is now settled. Really, to carry on this nonsense further is getting tiresome and as pointed out has a foolishness to it as well. Call it whatever makes you feel good and try to begin burying the issue.

[sits in trees]

now I'm an anti. lol. The only anti is the governor who passed your bill... and that other one.

 

All I did was ask a question about new hunters... because that was the biggest argument for years... and sits said he knew of new hunters entering the woods, only to then say he didn't.

What.

[Mossyberg500]

All any of that shows is that who ever wants to call it whatever, has some correct justification for their opinion regardless of where they want to categorize it. And neither is right or wrong. Making these kinds of comparisons serve no purpose other than to try to justify whatever opinion you want to argue for. It is all great if you want to perpetuate the controversy for some weird reason, but is very unlikely to change anyone's mind. It only serves to stir the pot and antagonize and divide hunters even further. The time for that kind of nonsense is over. Everybody had their say, and exerted as much pressure and influence as they could, and it is now settled. Really, to carry on this nonsense further is getting tiresome and as pointed out has a foolishness to it as well. Call it whatever makes you feel good and try to begin burying the issue.

Well the fact that it shoots and arrow is enough to make me believe it is archery equipment, don't matter how fancy anyone wants to make a crossbow sound,it's still archery.

Don't know why this is an issue anymore sense it is going to be in Muzzleloader season not Bow so bow hunters should be happy, they already have to hunt with muzzleloader hunters, it ain't going to hurt to have a couple of crossbow hunters as well, No one probably thinks that gun hunters got to hunt with bow,muzzleloader,crossbow hunters, bow hunters are just being selfish and want the whole bow season to them selves. I am giving my opinion on the situation and respect everyone else's and hope you respect mine.

[fasteddie]

big yawn ........ 

[skyhunter]

Not to dredge-up past topics about hunting myths, but isn't this sililiar to 70+yd shots with a compound? Or 300+yd shots with a modern in-line ML? Head or neck shots? Of course they're possible, but Could I, Would I, Should I do this in a real hunting scenario? From a more personal perspective, depends on whether you have the apple on your head or aiming the Xbow. Maybe it simply boils down to the respect a hunter has for the game they're pursuing and their definition of an ethical shot. Lot of mis-leading or overly exaggerated sales hype around about the capabilities of Xbows, unfortunately mostly from mfgers.

my point it is that it has more to do with shooting ability than it does ethics.

I hunt with a friend that can group his compound at 80 yards much better than the average bowhunter can at 20 yards.

he bought a modern Strikeforce x bow last year and came over to shoot it in my yard.

1st) he took some shots offhand and no problem shooting bulls from 30 to 40 yards.

next I set him up with a tripod shooting stick and he shot from my deck putting them right in there out to 60 yards.

so you see a crossbow in his hands at 60 yards is a slam dunk shot. ethical?; yes for him it is.

there are guys who can put a bullet in an animal at 700 yards with better accuracy than most hunters can at 100.

therefore, a hunter needs to tailor their shot opportunities around their own abilities. what you call an unethical shot for a given weapon may not be when that weapon is in the hands of a high level shooter.

[skyhunter]

Biggest argument about Xbows is; What type of weapon are they? Definitely not a long gun or ML like NYS legislation is trying to define them. Has a string, cams, limbs and shoots a short arrow - So aren't they more like archery tackle? Guess it all depends on what side of the discussion you're on.

 

 

a weapon that launches a projectile through the energy stored in a pair of limbs which form a bow.

 

case closed.

[nyantler]

a weapon that launches a projectile through the energy stored in a pair of limbs which form a bow.

 

case closed.

I don't think a weapon should be defined by how it fires, but more by how it kills... a crossbow kills the exact same way as any bow. I wonder how bow hunters would feel if there was a movement to allow spears in to archery season. Basically a huge arrow propelled by hand. I'd like to see the argument against that.

Edited April 20, 2014 by nyantler

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I don't think a weapon should be defined by how it fires, but more by how it kills... a crossbow kills the exact same way as any bow. I wonder how bow hunters would feel if there was a movement to allow spears in to archery season. Basically a huge arrow propelled by hand. I'd like to see the argument against that.

If it have me extra time hunting I would be right in line to get one? Aluminum or carbon? Lol

[nyantler]

If it have me extra time hunting I would be right in line to get one? Aluminum or carbon? Lol

LOL... either... spear hunting would be pretty exciting I think.. and quite the challenge. I would definitely do it.

[Doc]

LOL... either... spear hunting would be pretty exciting I think.. and quite the challenge. I would definitely do it.

Instead of talking about the deer "jumping the string", I guess it would be the deer "jumping the spear".

[nyslowhand]

So, crossbows are ~2500 year old technology. Here's a little more updated version from WWI, a grenade launching Xbow. Are there provision within Safe Act concerning these?? Sorry, WAY off topic!

[fasteddie]

And ..... they were smart enough to have a crank to draw the string back .

[Five Seasons]

I don't think a weapon should be defined by how it fires, but more by how it kills... a crossbow kills the exact same way as any bow. I wonder how bow hunters would feel if there was a movement to allow spears in to archery season. Basically a huge arrow propelled by hand. I'd like to see the argument against that.

 

what if i shot a bolt out of a gun using compressed air?

[fasteddie]

what if i shot a bolt out of a gun using compressed air?

 

Some would consider it a bow if it had a string attached .

[Five Seasons]

Some would consider it a bow if it had a string attached .

 

NYAntler said he considers it "how the animal is killed" not the weapon. So for his argument, it wouldn't matter how the arrow got there right?

 

Is this next for archery season? I mean... for those that can't hold an awkward crossbow or are unable to cock it? It's an arrow after all.

 

NYEAC

[skyhunter]

I don't think a weapon should be defined by how it fires, but more by how it kills... a crossbow kills the exact same way as any bow. I wonder how bow hunters would feel if there was a movement to allow spears in to archery season. Basically a huge arrow propelled by hand. I'd like to see the argument against that.

 

never said that a bow is defined by how it fires. 

 

said the source of the energy is 2 limbs which form a bow.

 

your point of how it kills can be well off the mark, when you consider the many different killing options that the projectile might have;  a pod being one of them.

 

so the reality is that a bow is indeed defined by how it stores energy, and not how it kills as you suggested.

Edited April 21, 2014 by skyhunter

[nyantler]

what if i shot a bolt out of a gun using compressed air?

Ahhh ... air archery.. I like that.... wait, that's a spear gun. Yeah I'd be ok with that during the archery season too... and muzzleloader season, and gun season.