myths and facts...

[WNYBuckHunter]

I would think for the guy who is already an accomplished archer, shooting a crossbow will increase his chances and be a big advantage over a compound..........for the dope who just runs out and gets one because he can, I bet the amount of shots that should never have been taken will increase and recovery rates will suffer, to the uneducated, just picking something up and shouldering it like a gun will give them a false sense of it's capabilities.

I think the recovery rates will go up. Youll have alot less guys out there with vertical bows that really have no business hunting with them. Alot of the gun hunters that lack the woodsmanship to get in close enough, will give up after they figure it out. Either that or they will up their game and learn the skills they need to be successful. Either outcome will add up to the recovery rates going up, at least after the first year or so.

[d-bone20917]

It would be illogical to think otherwise.

 

Maybe so.  I see a lot of guys that previously didn't hunt archery heading out like its a gun and taking shots they shouldn't take.  When you are holding it like a gun and looking through a scope all of sudden that deer 80 yards away looks shootable.  There are still lots of deer not recovered during rifle season because bad shots are taken.  

[jjb4900]

Maybe so.  I see a lot of guys that previously didn't hunt archery heading out like its a gun and taking shots they shouldn't take.  When you are holding it like a gun and looking through a scope all of sudden that deer 80 yards away looks shootable.  There are still lots of deer not recovered during rifle season because bad shots are taken.  

exactly what I see happening.....

[Arrow Flinger]

Maybe so.  I see a lot of guys that previously didn't hunt archery heading out like its a gun and taking shots they shouldn't take.  When you are holding it like a gun and looking through a scope all of sudden that deer 80 yards away looks shootable.  There are still lots of deer not recovered during rifle season because bad shots are taken.  

 

This is one of the things that my good friend from Michigan told me happened there a lot when X Bow first opened. He also said its not too bad now. After the first few years all the weekend warrior gun hunter types gave up on X Bows and went back to gun hunting. This is one of the reasons I'm on the fence about it. Guess we'll just have to wait and see what actually happens.

[skyhunter]

Maybe so.  I see a lot of guys that previously didn't hunt archery heading out like its a gun and taking shots they shouldn't take.  When you are holding it like a gun and looking through a scope all of sudden that deer 80 yards away looks shootable.  There are still lots of deer not recovered during rifle season because bad shots are taken.  

 

I understand your point and the same could be said for a hunter holding a scoped rifle and looking at an animal 700 yards  away, and bad shots are taken regardless of weapon used. That's on the hunter not the weapon. Do SUV's really kill people?

 

while it's really all about shooter competence and their familiarity with their chosen weapon and shot distance , I know I'm going to recover more animals taking shots with my Bowtech Invasion compound than I will when shooting my Hoyt Dorado recurve. 

 

The same can be said if I compare my Xcalibur to my Bowtech.

Edited April 5, 2014 by skyhunter

[sits in trees]

Yea to each his own, crossbow hunting will not be for everybody but it will be for me. Its not easy, I spent weeks on end in treestands with my crossbow last year and didnt get a deer.

The one thing Im happy about is that I have the choice to hunt right hear in my home state with a crossbow now, right out the back door.

I still will hunt PA but prob less now.

[mike rossi]

That is spot on. It is a primary goal in the Dec statewide deer management plan released last year. It was part of the law that changed discharge for both bows and xbows to 150 and 250' respectively. All new tools to help reduce overabundant deer numbers in suburban areas. End result is more acres, more opportunities, more seasons, weapons, and more balanced deer numbers which get less deer vehicle collisions' Lyme's disease, ag and forest over browse damage. That is why it was in the state deer plan, had support from tnc , Audubon, etc and broad public support. You would think hunters would be thrilled with added options. Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

 

This is not only about suburban deer being overpopulated and/or a nuisance and/or spreading ticks. This is also about rural deer being a 'keystone species', which means it is a species that modifies the landscape. In the case of whitetails, it specifically refers to alteration of plant communities. Another example of a keystone species is a beaver. But while beavers increase biodiversity, which is a good thing; the whitetail deer does the opposite, they decrease biodiversity and that is not a good thing.

 

There has been new research which shows a (measurable) change in plants caused by deer. One of the studies was actually done by the Nature Conservancy, one of the organizations that testified in favor of crossbows. There is a link to that study in their testimony. The empirically proven impact of whitetail deer on plant communities and biodiversity is one of the reasons the DEC's deer management plan calls for herd reduction. One of the strategies to accomplish that goal is to allow crossbow hunting. However, unless hunters take doe instead of bucks, the population will not be reduced. The only other options to heavier harvest of doe are birth control and natural predators. Birth control is considered the least desirable strategy by many biologists. I would not be surprised if wolf restoration and/or greater restrictions on taking coyotes, bobcats, and bears is entertained in the future.

[Five Seasons]

And noone other than you antis try to argue that lol. You guys say it like its a bad thing.

Maybe if archery hunting becomes more efficient and effective, we might see some cut back on gun seasons like other states have.

 

Seems the whole thread is dedicated to how hard they are... so I'm not sure "noone" is a fair statement.

 

Also, I'm glad you now labeled me as an anti

 

Yep, im pretty sure belo has even admitted to it.

 

I've also posted about getting a recurve. There's a fine line between harvesting deer and just straight up making it challenging. You have to cater to the masses and you have to make it sporting. We talk about baiting, ARs, snipers and spotlighting. All topics that either help improve the sporting aspect of deer hunting or help control the population. For me, the crossbow crosses the line and the DEC has made no secret that it's all about population control. And I think that's sad as archery tag sales have been increasing every year. They should focus on the gun season and leave what was working alone.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Belo

[Five Seasons]

facts:

 

1) crossbows are easier to shoot accurately than vertical bows.

 

2) crossbows can be shot off a rest, in prone position, or off a shooting stick tripod greatly increasing both hold and accuracy. 

 

3) greater accuracy leads to a more efficient means of delivering a projectile to the target. 

 

4) greater efficiency leads to  an increase in kill and recovery rates.

 

5) increased recovery rates are a good thing.

 

6) most hunters including myself support increased recovery rates.

 

7) most hunters including myself also support crossbow use.

 

 

you have no scientific stats to support #7. Therefore it's not a fact, but an opinion.

 

And if you point me to the NYCC website's poll that's no different than pointing me to a fox news poll on who should be the next president.

 

Edited April 7, 2014 by Belo

[dbHunterNY]

I can't say I disagree with any of the 10 facts in the original post.  some of those myths are pretty silly especially comparing a crossbow to a gun.  some out there must think that so the education is good.

[fasteddie]

Here ya go ........

 

 

[mike rossi]

Here ya go ........

That bolsters the argument that it is more sporting to use a regular bow, but think population control, it also bolsters the argument more deer will be killed if crossbows are allowed.

 

Heck, some don't even adhere the sporting argument, their premise is it crossbows enable older or disabled hunters. Others who might even acknowledge the greater challenge  don't  care...

[d-bone20917]

That bolsters the argument that it is more sporting to use a regular bow, but think population control, it also bolsters the argument more deer will be killed if crossbows are allowed.

 

Heck, some don't even adhere the sporting argument, their premise is it crossbows enable older or disabled hunters. Others who might even acknowledge the greater challenge  don't  care...

 

If the issue is simply to reduce deer numbers than why not just give out more tags to the people that are already hunting?  I'd gladly take a couple more to get the numbers down.    

[Lawdwaz]

If the issue is simply to reduce deer numbers than why not just give out more tags to the people that are already hunting?  I'd gladly take a couple more to get the numbers down.    

 

So you filled all the tags that were alloted you and you do that every year?

[d-bone20917]

So you filled all the tags that were alloted you and you do that every year?

 

I try like hell.  I didn't fill my bow tag this year but I did take a buck and doe during rifle season.  I would have gladly taken another doe tag or two, but I don't live in an area where they are trying to drastically reduce numbers either.  Personally I don't think legalizing crossbows was a deer management decision.  I think issuing additional tags to those that fill theirs and would like more would also be an option if the goal is to reduce population size.    

[G-Man]

fact is bowhunters tend to wait for a buck... numbers are controlled thru doe harvest. in general us bow hunters are poor deer managers.. we let a doe walk past on the chance a buck may be following. we may pass a small buck to wait for a bigger one,but that is not deer management. adding crossbows will initially increase doe harvest (when i started bowhunting i took every deer i could) as excitement to harvest game is present in new participants. In time that too will fade as ne crossbowers either quit from fustration (no deer harvested/ cant get close enough), or simpley become more selective as they see how deer interact, and become better hunters in general. this is not end of the world the woods are going to be overrun with hunters.. your a bowhunter you know how to study the movement of deer if pressure increases you go into thicker areas, escape routes, security cover... the new guys are not as familiar with the land and habbits like you are... a good bowhunter adapts, i know several who hunt during gun with bow and are sucessful every year..

[Culvercreek hunt club]

you have no scientific stats to support #7. Therefore it's not a fact, but an opinion.

 

And if you point me to the NYCC website's poll that's no different than pointing me to a fox news poll on who should be the next president.

 

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Looking at the All hunters columns it sure seems to support what he said. _______________________________________________________________________________________________

Edited April 7, 2014 by Culvercreek hunt club

[nyantler]

The biggest winner is the corporate lobby that funded the crossbow push. They created a market by buying influence though the political system and then changed the law to support their newest venture. They knew they could count of the lemming like consumerism that has infected the hunting community. When in doubt bet on consumerism.  

How do you think compounds got their entrance into bow hunting? ... or inline muzzleloaders?... Consumerism drives everything new. I'm not sure I would call it infecting the hunting community, but rather giving hunters what they want... Whether any of us like it or not... if there is a market for it... it will probably make it's way into hunting eventually. Whether or not it's good or bad for hunting depends on which side of the issue you're on.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I try like hell.  I didn't fill my bow tag this year but I did take a buck and doe during rifle season.  I would have gladly taken another doe tag or two, but I don't live in an area where they are trying to drastically reduce numbers either.  Personally I don't think legalizing crossbows was a deer management decision.  I think issuing additional tags to those that fill theirs and would like more would also be an option if the goal is to reduce population size.    

Most arrears that require the help for population control are probably the hardest areas to get into. Which probably speaks to why there is a population control number in the first place.

[nyantler]

Has anyone brought up the idea of maybe the DEC just wants more deer taken? (I may have missed it) Crossbows are "easier" and will put more hunters in the woods this fall. It makes sense that more deer will be taken. Just a thought

It's about time someone finally pointed out what the bottom line is... and that is to keep the deer population down...Just makes sense that easier would be better to accomplish this... I've never been one for easier, but if the objective is to kill deer in the most affective way then easier would be a huge plus.

[Five Seasons]

fact is bowhunters tend to wait for a buck... numbers are controlled thru doe harvest. in general us bow hunters are poor deer managers.. we let a doe walk past on the chance a buck may be following. we may pass a small buck to wait for a bigger one,but that is not deer management. adding crossbows will initially increase doe harvest (when i started bowhunting i took every deer i could) as excitement to harvest game is present in new participants. In time that too will fade as ne crossbowers either quit from fustration (no deer harvested/ cant get close enough), or simpley become more selective as they see how deer interact, and become better hunters in general. this is not end of the world the woods are going to be overrun with hunters.. your a bowhunter you know how to study the movement of deer if pressure increases you go into thicker areas, escape routes, security cover... the new guys are not as familiar with the land and habbits like you are... a good bowhunter adapts, i know several who hunt during gun with bow and are sucessful every year..

 

I agree with this. My only addition is that the bow hunter who goes after a buck is why many of us buy a license in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I eat venison at least twice a week and am always sure to fill my freezer, but the thrill of a big buck is why a lot of tags are bought and why a lot of gun hunters started bow hunting.

 

I'm not sure archery season was ever meant for population control. The same deer are still there during gun and doe tags can be used whenever. An archery tag can be used with mz as well, so the tag itself does not lend a gun hunter to any more kills, just lets him get them earlier on.

[Five Seasons]

Capture.JPG

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Looking at the All hunters columns it sure seems to support what he said. _______________________________________________________________________________________________

 

what source is that?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

what source is that?

DEC Survey that they used to put together the 5 year plan.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

what source is that?

http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/hdrudeer10.pdf

[Mossyberg500]

I think that Crossbow Season should be during muzzlelloader season and allow Crossbow hunting during Late Bow Season, think it would work for everybody.

I my opinion, if Crossbow was only allowed in Regular gun season then why shouldn't Bow be allowed?
why not just allow muzzlelloader be in regular season too? Would be too much traffic in the woods with all the gun hunters and bow/crossbow hunters in the same season.

Also don't get why Crossbow is compared to Bow or a Rifle/Shotgun or any type of gun it's neither if you ask me yeah sure you can aim it like a gun but it shoots like a bow.