Muzzleloader Question

[virgil]

Last year, while sighting in my TC Omega 50 cal., the gun shot great at 100 yards.  After about 6 or 8 shots, i moved to 200 yards and couldn't even get the gun on paper.  I gave the gun a thorough cleaning, assuming that the dropoff was due to fouling.

I brought the gun to the range this weekend and had a similar experience.  Took two shots at 100, shot great.  Moved to 200.  The first 2 shots at 200 were pretty good.  The next two shots dropped about 12".  I ran a moist patch through the barrel after every shot.

Brought the gun home and gave it another thorough cleaning.  Will bring it to the range again and start at 200.

Has anyone had similar experiences?  I wouldn't expect the gun to get so fouled up after just a few shots that it would affect accuracy so much.  I'm using Triple Seven powder pellets, 2 per shot with Shock Wave spire point 250 bullets.

[G-Man]

Pellets do not allow precise packing . Air gaps, crushed pellets .all effect accuracy and burn.  Consistancy is the absolute key to a muzzleloader.  Cant get it from pellet loads. Longer range needs same pressure to pack powder and exact weight/ volume of powder. Pellets vary quite a bit alone add to that air gap from rifeling and cracked crushed or damaged in any way and a minute differences show at range.

[sbuff]

What bullet were you using ?

[virgil]

8 minutes ago, sbuff said:

What bullet were you using ?

Shock Wave 250's.

[sbuff]

Maybe I figured it wrong but I ran a 250 gr shock wave with a BC of .250 at around 1700fps dead on at 100 yards with a .452 diameter you should be -16+bullet drop out to 200 yards

T7 will give you a crud ring usually after shot number two 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by sbuff

[virgil]

5 minutes ago, sbuff said:

Maybe I figured it wrong but I ran a 250 gr shock wave with a BC of .250 at around 1700fps dead on at 100 yards with a .452 diameter you should be -16+bullet drop out to 200 yards

T7 will give you a crud ring usually after shock number two 

 

 

 

 

So, do you think my issue is crud?  I can't come up with any other ideas.  When i shot at 200, i used the reticle on the scope that was designed for 200.  The first two shots were good.  After that, huge dropoff.

I appreciate G-Man's advice about switching to powder.  But, if i knew that the issue is purely due to the barrel getting cruddy after a few shots, even with a moist patch between shots, i'll just make sure that the gun is perfectly clean before heading into the woods for this season.  Then, i'll probably make the switch to loose powder going forward.

[SportsmanNH]

Just now, virgil said:

So, do you think my issue is crud?  I can't come up with any other ideas.  When i shot at 200, i used the reticle on the scope that was designed for 200.  The first two shots were good.  After that, huge dropoff.

I appreciate G-Man's advice about switching to powder.  But, if i knew that the issue is purely due to the barrel getting cruddy after a few shots, even with a moist patch between shots, i'll just make sure that the gun is perfectly clean before heading into the woods for this season.  Then, i'll probably make the switch to loose powder going forward.

I dont believe your issue is crud at all . Everyone I know who shoots out to 200 yards are using 3 pyrodex or triple 7 pellets . I think sbuff's calculation of 16 inches low is right on the money or actually a little on the short side. I would of expected to a bit more than 16 inches low . 

[virgil]

Just now, SportsmanNH said:

I dont believe your issue is crud at all . Everyone I know who shoots out to 200 yards are using 3 pyrodex or triple 7 pellets . I think sbuff's calculation of 16 inches low is right on the money or actually a little on the short side. I would of expected to a bit more than 16 inches low . 

So, are you suggesting 3 pellets?  For all distances?

[sbuff]

8 minutes ago, virgil said:

So, do you think my issue is crud?  I can't come up with any other ideas.  When i shot at 200, i used the reticle on the scope that was designed for 200.  The first two shots were good.  After that, huge dropoff.

I appreciate G-Man's advice about switching to powder.  But, if i knew that the issue is purely due to the barrel getting cruddy after a few shots, even with a moist patch between shots, i'll just make sure that the gun is perfectly clean before heading into the woods for this season.  Then, i'll probably make the switch to loose powder going forward.

Not crud ring related  if you ask me , natural bullet drop with two pellets 

[virgil]

5 minutes ago, sbuff said:

Not crud ring related  if you ask me , natural bullet drop with two pellets 

Do you suggest using three?

[SportsmanNH]

5 minutes ago, virgil said:

So, are you suggesting 3 pellets?  For all distances?

If you want to shoot 200 yards , yes . Use 3 pellets . Thats what all the guys I know use that want to shoot 200+ yards . And they do very well with it . The longest shot I've made with my Encore was 145 yards . I aimed at the top third of the chest and hit dead center on the deer . Maybe a 4 inch drop . But the bullet was on its way down . I use 2 pellets . 

[virgil]

7 minutes ago, SportsmanNH said:

If you want to shoot 200 yards , yes . Use 3 pellets . Thats what all the guys I know use that want to shoot 200+ yards . And they do very well with it . The longest shot I've made with my Encore was 145 yards . I aimed at the top third of the chest and hit dead center on the deer . Maybe a 4 inch drop . But the bullet was on its way down . I use 2 pellets . 

OK, thanks.  I'll give that a try.  I can't imagine it'll effect zero at 100?

[RangerClay]

Are you using sabot cleaner?  I have bottle of this stuff made by CVA that cleans the melted plastic residue from the walls of your barrel.  If I'm sighting in, I use with every 5-6 shots.

[Robhuntandfish]

if i dont clean mine anything after 3 shots starts to drop.  Shoot that first and second one at 200 then take a 100 yard shots after and see what it looks like.  I use the same as you 2 pellets of 777.  

[virgil]

19 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

if i dont clean mine anything after 3 shots starts to drop.  Shoot that first and second one at 200 then take a 100 yard shots after and see what it looks like.  I use the same as you 2 pellets of 777.  

Good idea.  Will try that.

[virgil]

20 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

if i dont clean mine anything after 3 shots starts to drop.  Shoot that first and second one at 200 then take a 100 yard shots after and see what it looks like.  I use the same as you 2 pellets of 777.  

Haven't tried that.  i did read about a lubricant that's supposed to be excellent.

Oops- that was meant for the post from Ranger Clay.

Edited October 31, 2022 by virgil

[SportsmanNH]

1 hour ago, virgil said:

OK, thanks.  I'll give that a try.  I can't imagine it'll effect zero at 100?

It might effect it slightly because you are shooting at higher velocity . Here is a good article for you to read about accuracy and bullet drop using 100 grains compared to 150 grains . I mentioned the 4 inch drop on the deer I shot at 145 yards . This article has it at 5 inches at 150 yards using 2 pellets . But the bullet drop using 3 pellets is only 1/2 inch difference at 150 yards . The big difference comes after 150 yards . The 2 pellets at 200 yards has a drop of 18 inches and  3 pellets has a 9 inch drop . If you want less than 9 in drop you have to sight in 1 to 2 inches high at 100 yards to get maybe a 3 to 4 inch drop at 200 yards . This is basic sight in strategy . The interesting part I found in the article was bullet performance between the 2 different loads talking about wound channels .

Before you jump into using 150 grains or 3 pellets , make sure you check your manual to see if your gun is rated to fire a magnum load . My Encores are 50cal Magnum barrels . Some muzzleloaders are not recommended to shoot over 100 grains . 

https://www.grandviewoutdoors.com/big-game-hunting/whitetail-deer/muzzleloader-loads-100-vs-150-grains

Edited October 31, 2022 by SportsmanNH

[Robhuntandfish]

Haven't tried that.  i did read about a lubricant that's supposed to be excellent.
Oops- that was meant for the post from Ranger Clay.

I shot mine a bunch at the range and after 3 shots everytime it was 3" low at 100. And harder to load. So I went and cleaned it and same happened again.

It's dead on first shot at 100 everytime. I have never shot it out to 200. I've always figured I would limit myself with it to 150 anyway.



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[Kmartinson]

15 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

I shot mine a bunch at the range and after 3 shots everytime it was 3" low at 100. And harder to load. So I went and cleaned it and same happened again.

It's dead on first shot at 100 everytime. I have never shot it out to 200. I've always figured I would limit myself with it to 150 anyway.



Sent from my motorola edge 5G UW (2021) using Tapatalk
 

I used white hots and I can shoot 4 or 5 times but same thing.

[Daveboone]

I totally agree with what has already been said about powder vs pellets. Also, I got much more consistent accuracy with heavier projectiles...My groups shrunk by half when I went from 245 gr. power belts to 295...I am sure it is due to the longer length, providing more stablity. I would recommend trying the same move. (heavier /longer projectile, with powder).

[catskillkid]

I switched to Black Horn 209 powder from Triple 7 granular last year. Made a huge difference, it also does not leave a crud ring.

Shot a buck at 180 yards last year with only a slight bullet drop. 

You might want to try it

[suburbanfarmer]

4 minutes ago, catskillkid said:

I switched to Black Horn 209 powder from Triple 7 granular last year. Made a huge difference, it also does not leave a crud ring.

Shot a buck at 180 yards last year with only a slight bullet drop. 

You might want to try it

How many grains of powder & bullet?

[Nytracker]

On 10/31/2022 at 12:38 PM, SportsmanNH said:

I dont believe your issue is crud at all . Everyone I know who shoots out to 200 yards are using 3 pyrodex or triple 7 pellets . I think sbuff's calculation of 16 inches low is right on the money or actually a little on the short side. I would of expected to a bit more than 16 inches low . 

I'm shooting the 250 shock waves and in my tc pro hunter with 3x50 pellets. At 100 yards my group is much tighter with 3 pellets than with 2. I have a leupold muzzleloader scope that has a 2 pellet verses 3 selector to compensate for the difference. With a ballistic reticle.  Off a bench I can smack 200 yard 10 inch pan ever time .  My gun was designed for 3 pellet charges . Should you decide to try 3 pellets  check your gun info  before you try this.

[catskillkid]

I'm using 120 grains of Blackhorn with a 240 grain hornady XTP saboted.

[suburbanfarmer]

1 hour ago, catskillkid said:

I'm using 120 grains of Blackhorn with a 240 grain hornady XTP saboted.

120gn by tube volume or weight?