Baiting for deer

[skully]

Another aspect of the baiting question pulled from a Bowsite.com article by Dr. Dave Samuel:

 

Baiting is viewed as drawing deer away from those who don't use bait to those that do. He also noted that it may take advantage of neighbors with good habitat, by drawing away deer from those lands. In Michigan, there are situations where one person baits heavily on his property, drawing deer off smaller adjacent properties. This then forces those who hunt on small properties to bait. They may not want to, but they get into it so they can see deer.

 

Any comments?

 

Forget Michigan if you do not bait deer in fairfield county or westchester county you will not see them................

[Doc]

kind of like my earlier comment about the small landowner without the means to plant a food plot resorting to baiting in an effort to combat the loss of deer due to the neighbor with food plots.......that above statement could really substitute bait with food plot and it would sound the same.

Yeah, if that really is a potential outcome of legal baiting, or food plotting, this would be the point where a hunting technique or activity could have negative effects on someone other than those practicing it. Doesn't that all kind of smack of selfishness or something? It doesn't really sound like a neighborly or friendly hunter interaction. It's one thing to want to use bait for your own hunting but when motives turn to attempts at depriving other hunters for your own gain that becomes something entirely different. I don't really want to see any of that going on.

[jjb4900]

Yeah, if that really is a potential outcome of legal baiting, or food plotting, this would be the point where a hunting technique or activity could have negative effects on someone other than those practicing it. Doesn't that all kind of smack of selfishness or something? It doesn't really sound like a neighborly or friendly hunter interaction. It's one thing to want to use bait for your own hunting but when motives turn to attempts at depriving other hunters for your own gain that becomes something entirely different. I don't really want to see any of that going on.

unfortunately, deer hunting has turned into a selfish, solitary sport for many.....

[WNYBuckHunter]

Honest and dumb question...

I completely understand that you are NOT hunting after dark. However, how to you convince the DEC officer of that when you are sitting in your hunting spot with your rife after legal hunting hours?

Maybe I am paranoid, but I sometimes worry when I set up targets on my property to practice bow shooting out of season.

Theres nothing illegal about being in the woods with your rifle after dark. It is illegal to shoot a deer after legal shooting hours, if you havent done that you have nothing to worry about.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Bingo! Its all baiting. No difference if its a food plot or piles of bait.

The difference is the food plots are there for a long time, and provide longer term quality food, unlike a bait pile which may or may not get replenished regularly.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

The difference is the food plots are there for a long time, and provide longer term quality food, unlike a bait pile which may or may not get replenished regularly.

That statement could be tested with all the :Throw and Grow: crap.  10-20ft circle around the stand is kinda borderline i would say.

But do get your point!

[GreeneHunter]

That statement could be tested with all the :Throw and Grow: crap.  10-20ft circle around the stand is kinda borderline i would say.

 

I usually throw the Throw and Grow in front of the stand ..... turning around is too noisy !  LOL

[dbHunterNY]

Honest and dumb question...

 

I completely understand that you are NOT hunting after dark. However, how to you convince the DEC officer of that when you are sitting in your hunting spot with your rife after legal hunting hours? 

 

Maybe I am paranoid, but I sometimes worry when I set up targets on my property to practice bow shooting out of season.

 

almost any question is most certainly NOT a dumb question.  I think you're being a little overly paranoid.  almost all the time a warden is not going to know you're even in your blind or stand then.  it's not like they'd be just strolling through your area for no reason.  also there's things to do safety and otherwise that would plead your case, such as quietly unloading your gun or putting your arrow(s) back in your quiver.  you shouldn't be walking around in the dark with a gun loaded or arrow nocked when it doesn't need to be anyway.  another thing to add is nothing says you can't sit in a ground blind on your property with a weapon in the dark at least no state I know of.  it's only when the warden can connect too many dots and your story doesn't add up that you'd need to worry.  remember they aren't out to get everybody.  it only seems that way because they're continuously looking and watching.  heck many times wardens are at community hunting related or other events.  introduce yourself and ask them.

[Carbonelement]

i have gun hunted but i mostly bow hunt.  I also hunt in CT where baiting is legal.  Does it help yes, you can shoot every 1.5 year old buck in the area on a bait pile.  But MOST not all but most mature deer buck or doe will not coming running into it during shooting hours.  Early season and late season is when u can have good success baiting deer.  But I also think "shooting" an animal with a gun is much easier then hunting with a bow over bait.  Lets be honest im sure most guys here can off hand kill a deer with a shotgun up to 150 yds.  never mind rifle.  to me being 150 to 300 yds away and shooting a deer is super easy no sport involved sorry.  esp in New York.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

i have gun hunted but i mostly bow hunt.  I also hunt in CT where baiting is legal.  Does it help yes, you can shoot every 1.5 year old buck in the area on a bait pile.  But MOST not all but most mature deer buck or doe will not coming running into it during shooting hours.  Early season and late season is when u can have good success baiting deer.  But I also think "shooting" an animal with a gun is much easier then hunting with a bow over bait.  Lets be honest im sure most guys here can off hand kill a deer with a shotgun up to 150 yds.  never mind rifle.  to me being 150 to 300 yds away and shooting a deer is super easy no sport involved sorry.  esp in New York.

Great post. Also when you throw in Bait, the dumbest deer in the woods..ie.1/2 year old buck.and kill that buck with a high power rifle you just took all the sport of hunting out of the equation. At least it does in my book. But you did harvest an animal. 

[Five Seasons]

Honest and dumb question...

 

I completely understand that you are NOT hunting after dark. However, how to you convince the DEC officer of that when you are sitting in your hunting spot with your rife after legal hunting hours? 

 

Maybe I am paranoid, but I sometimes worry when I set up targets on my property to practice bow shooting out of season.

 

sometimes we talk like the DEC is walking through the woods on a daily basis haha. I guess if you're concerned you could unload the gun. Would be no different than walking out of the woods in the dark like most of us do.

[Five Seasons]

Bingo! Its all baiting. No difference if its a food plot or piles of bait.

 

i don't see how it's "no different". a food plot is the same as hunting some farm, a creek bottom or a bedding area. One is natural and alive, the other is not.

[Five Seasons]

i have gun hunted but i mostly bow hunt.  I also hunt in CT where baiting is legal.  Does it help yes, you can shoot every 1.5 year old buck in the area on a bait pile.  But MOST not all but most mature deer buck or doe will not coming running into it during shooting hours.  Early season and late season is when u can have good success baiting deer.  But I also think "shooting" an animal with a gun is much easier then hunting with a bow over bait.  Lets be honest im sure most guys here can off hand kill a deer with a shotgun up to 150 yds.  never mind rifle.  to me being 150 to 300 yds away and shooting a deer is super easy no sport involved sorry.  esp in New York.

 

i'd rather we not shoot the 1.5's

 

:popcorn

 

[Dinsdale]

Carbonelement, on 06 Sept 2014 - 11:54 AM, said:

 Lets be honest im sure most guys here can off hand kill a deer with a shotgun up to 150 yds.  

 

Holy crap that is the funniest thing posted here in months.

 

Thanks.

[Lawdwaz]

  never mind rifle.  to me being 150 to 300 yds away and shooting a deer is super easy no sport involved sorry.  esp in New York.

 

A couple more pearls of wisdom in the above quote.

 

 

 

Those CT deer must be the real deal, huh?  Thank goodness for bait..................................

[Five Seasons]

in mississippi, you are allowed to bait, but the bait must be over 100 yards away and not within site when shooting (so you can attract them, but can't hunt over it). Doesn't apply to most public land, but kind of an interesting take on it. Useful for cams and what not i guess.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Belo

[Doc]

The difference is the food plots are there for a long time, and provide longer term quality food, unlike a bait pile which may or may not get replenished regularly.

Actually, there are a whole lot of differences between plotting and baiting. Hard though it may be to believe, some plotting is being done strictly as a habitat improvement. Also, there is a big difference in difficulty between hunting over a 6' diameter pile of bait, vs. a 1/4 to 3 acre or larger field with dozens of entry and exit spots. This is a real important distinction particularly with bowhunting. Also, baiting allows the chemist to get into the act, with unlimited inventions of more and more effective concoctions. Also, I have read about some of these timed bait broadcasting feeders acting like a dinner bell to the point where you even get a sense of "When" the deer will be getting on the scene. Another big difference regards the practicality of enforcement. Imagine the legal quagmire that would result trying to differentiate between legitimate ag activity and that special small field back in the woods. On the other hand, a bait pile is a bait pile. very easy to define, identify and with very little question as to intent. So the bottom line is that food plots and baiting are very different things.

 

[skully]

i have gun hunted but i mostly bow hunt.  I also hunt in CT where baiting is legal.  Does it help yes, you can shoot every 1.5 year old buck in the area on a bait pile.  But MOST not all but most mature deer buck or doe will not coming running into it during shooting hours.  Early season and late season is when u can have good success baiting deer.  But I also think "shooting" an animal with a gun is much easier then hunting with a bow over bait.  Lets be honest im sure most guys here can off hand kill a deer with a shotgun up to 150 yds.  never mind rifle.  to me being 150 to 300 yds away and shooting a deer is super easy no sport involved sorry.  esp in New York.

 

Good post.  To any of you that think your gonna throw a pile of corn out and your gonna tame those mature bucks to come in and your actually gonna kill a big buck over bait is that easy think again.  It is not that easy and believe me there is also methods to it just like any other hunting method. You could kill every 1.5 year old buck in the area just by throwing a pile of feed and hunting over it but that does not work for the big boys.....

[PREDATE]

You could kill every 1.5 year old buck in the area just by throwing a pile of feed and hunting over it but that does not work for the big boys.....

I dunno.... I've seen way too many shows that feature big properties, big feeders and big bucks. I think having big properties is the most important. They have the big deer and plenty habitat to support these deer. They can also control who hunts, where they hunt and how many deer are taken. A good point was brought up in an earlier post and that is if everyone had a pile of feed out, the deer could easily just jump from property to property seeking out the best food. Could this cause deer to take up larger home ranges? Possibly. In turn, could this allow for more car vs. deer collisions? Possibly.

One factor that hasn't made it's way into this thread yet is the fact that halfway through our deer seasons the bucks really don't give a hoot about food. So who's to say that keeping a group of does in the area with piles of feed won't draw in the big boys?

[Deerslayer]

Honest and dumb question...

 

I completely understand that you are NOT hunting after dark. However, how to you convince the DEC officer of that when you are sitting in your hunting spot with your rife after legal hunting hours? 

 

Maybe I am paranoid, but I sometimes worry when I set up targets on my property to practice bow shooting out of season.

It is not illegal to be in the woods with your gun/bow before or after legal hunting hours. It  is illegal to "shoot" after/before legal

hunting hours. Don't know about you but on opening day and most following weekend days I am in my stand a clear hour

before legal shooting light, this is to take advantage of other hunters entering the woods after light and pushing deer. Also

it is pretty common (to anyone who doesn't want to educate deer where the stand or blind is) to stay after dark until that deer

that was out of range or didn't provide a clean shot to wander off. The deer sees you exit the stand/blind.... you will never see

that deer there again.

[IronBucks]

So I am against baiting, ESPECIALLY using store bought, chem lab enhanced products.  Last year I found a pile of something that turned in to white mold on a property I lease and I looked around and sure enough there was a trial cam pointed right at it.  The whole area stunk and I had my only stand set up a few yards away.  

 

That aside, I do have to laugh at some of the arguments...especially when it comes to food plots / trees and using nature's bait for you.  

 

For example.  Why is it that the man who has access to hunt near an apple tree and shoots a deer eating the apples will make it seem like he is a more skilled and righteous hunter than the person who doesn't have an apple tree and illegally dropped apples?  

 

That makes you a legal hunter, and in my opinion more ethical one.  But don't kid yourself and say that you are a more skilled or righteous hunter.  You both shot deer that were baited to the apples.  One was just fortunate enough to have the tree on their property.  

 

This is coming from one of those hunters who is lucky enough to hunt a farm.  

 

 

[WNYBuckHunter]

Actually, there are a whole lot of differences between plotting and baiting. Hard though it may be to believe, some plotting is being done strictly as a habitat improvement. Also, there is a big difference in difficulty between hunting over a 6' diameter pile of bait, vs. a 1/4 to 3 acre or larger field with dozens of entry and exit spots. This is a real important distinction particularly with bowhunting. Also, baiting allows the chemist to get into the act, with unlimited inventions of more and more effective concoctions. Also, I have read about some of these timed bait broadcasting feeders acting like a dinner bell to the point where you even get a sense of "When" the deer will be getting on the scene. Another big difference regards the practicality of enforcement. Imagine the legal quagmire that would result trying to differentiate between legitimate ag activity and that special small field back in the woods. On the other hand, a bait pile is a bait pile. very easy to define, identify and with very little question as to intent. So the bottom line is that food plots and baiting are very different things.

 

 

I agree, I was just using the low hanging fruit as a quick, easy example.

[WNYBuckHunter]

That statement could be tested with all the :Throw and Grow: crap.  10-20ft circle around the stand is kinda borderline i would say.

But do get your point!

 

There are always exceptions to any rule, but a few deer can wipe out that 20ft circle in one night, so generally speaking, a "food plot" like that isnt going to be very effective anyhow.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I dunno.... I've seen way too many shows that feature big properties, big feeders and big bucks. I think having big properties is the most important. They have the big deer and plenty habitat to support these deer. They can also control who hunts, where they hunt and how many deer are taken. A good point was brought up in an earlier post and that is if everyone had a pile of feed out, the deer could easily just jump from property to property seeking out the best food. Could this cause deer to take up larger home ranges? Possibly. In turn, could this allow for more car vs. deer collisions? Possibly.

One factor that hasn't made it's way into this thread yet is the fact that halfway through our deer seasons the bucks really don't give a hoot about food. So who's to say that keeping a group of does in the area with piles of feed won't draw in the big boys?

 

What you see on most hunting shows has little to nothing to do with NY hunting. You are watching mostly shows filmed on large, unpressured reserves or ranches. Unpressured deer are completely different animals than pressured ones.

 

Keep this in mind next time you are watching one of those shows....

 

[HuntOrBeHunted]

Oooooo yea another 30 pages of quoting wars... Involving ,, What the same 5 people lmao, No wayyy I would have never guessed !!!