Coyotes

[Doc]

Back when I was a kid, (late 40's thru early 60's) there was no such thing as coyotes in the Finger Lakes Area of New York state. The fact is I never recall any serious discussion of coyotes anywhere in New York State. It just was not an issue or subject of discussion. Even in my trapping days there was never any discussion about trapping them or having them messing with any of our sets. Now today they are all over the place. How does something like that happen? Does anyone have an authoritative reason for this change?

[airedale]

When I was a kid the rumors were just beginning about a mythical animal that at that time was being called a Coydog. For the most part the DEC dismissed their existence, they were few and far between in the beginning but as the population grew there was no denying them. Hunters were shooting them, they were getting hit by cars, showing up in trapper's fox sets and bingo we now had the eastern Coyote.

One thing for sure once they gained a toehold their numbers skyrocketed, basically a perfect storm.

Al

[suburbanfarmer]

Just a theory:

Its a natural transition as most households moved into urban/suburban life style , they moved away from self sustenance and having their own livestock and gardens. Trapping and predatory control is almost non existent.

Coyote population went unchecked and grew into areas so much so that they are now in city limits in Rochester. Last year a Canadian wolf crossed the St. Lawrence and was shot in NY. Guessing more are on their way.

[LET EM GROW]

Coyote populations are sustained by the way they live. you kill them a bunch, they have bigger litters. They disperse in such a way that when pairs get broken up by killing one or both that the transient coyotes will step in and either take new role of mother or father of the pair and help raise young.. Research on coyote is really fascinating on how they are built to survive  

[suburbanfarmer]

 

[Four Seasons]

8 minutes ago, LET EM GROW said:

Coyote populations are sustained by the way they live. you kill them a bunch, they have bigger litters. They disperse in such a way that when pairs get broken up by killing one or both that the transient coyotes will step in and either take new role of mother or father of the pair and help raise young.. Research on coyote is really fascinating on how they are built to survive  

That is only true to a point. Yes with Ny’s stupidest laws of them having a season…many states they are called the vermin that they are and killed 24/7.. a person will have a hard time being able to control a coyote problem. Most people have never seen a real coyote problem. Our 1000 acres and many of the neighbors were devoid of any kind of small game on their properties and the Turkey and deer population were going fast. When one declares war on them and does what it takes when the time is best you can rid your land of the problem and they never have a chance to come back in numbers. As with anything the young are the key. In this state you have to jump thru hoops to do it the legal way so most just don’t bother and do what they feel is best. Of course you will have those that agree and disagree but when they tie your hands and expect you to just watch something destroy what you bought and built things happen at times. 

[DoubleDose]

3 hours ago, airedale said:

When I was a kid the rumors were just beginning about a mythical animal that at that time was being called a Coydog. For the most part the DEC dismissed their existence, they were few and far between in the beginning but as the population grew there was no denying them. Hunters were shooting them, they were getting hit by cars, showing up in trapper's fox sets and bingo we now had the eastern Coyote.

One thing for sure once they gained a toehold their numbers skyrocketed, basically a perfect storm.

Al

Same here.  Hunting as a kid we heard of the Coydog and were told kill them.  At that time DEC was adamant that coyotes do not kill deer although people had witnessed it.  A later DNA study of NE coyotes found that none of them were purebred coyote and all had red wolf DNA.  The red wolf DNA then explained their size (versus pure coyote) and hunting of deer in packs.  In my opinion, these came down from Canada.

[Nytracker]

This doesn't look like the coyotes that we learned about in trapping class in the 80s .

[Shoots100]

I've been doing predator control for a couple of decades and have seen what an unchecked coyote population can do to an area's wildlife.

They were pushed from the western states to the east coast 70 years ago.

I used to think that they would become a normal part of the ecosystem and mother nature would control their numbers like she does with other animals, but coyote are survivors and can adapt where other animals perish. 

We put a trail camera on a coyote den and found out why the deer population was dwindling.

Small pets around the area started disappearing and some thought it was devil worshipers, but what we found was that the coyote were at work doing what predators do, as after we cleaned out all the devil worshippers, the pets were still disappearing ! 

Mother nature needed a hand in controlling them, as left unchecked like any evasive species, they would've cleaned out every animal they could get their paws on and then probably die of mange or rabies, which is a painful death.

So I've been hunting them and in the areas I hunt and do farm over watch in, I know it makes a difference.

I've left out dead cow and legal picked up deer road kill for bait and have had nothing touch it for weeks in the areas I hunt.

Of course that makes them gather in areas I don't have permission to hunt and all of a sudden I'm getting calls in those areas now.

More and more people are getting tired of the growing coyote presence and their getting harassed more now a days, but I think the coyote will be around forever in NY state in good numbers as long as there's a coyote season and trapper numbers dwindle because of the declining fur prices.

No one wants to wear dead animal fur anymore.

SJC

 

[SteveB]

7 hours ago, Shoots100 said:

I've been doing predator control for a couple of decades and have seen what an unchecked coyote population can do to an area's wildlife.

They were pushed from the western states to the east coast 70 years ago.

I used to think that they would become a normal part of the ecosystem and mother nature would control their numbers like she does with other animals, but coyote are survivors and can adapt where other animals perish. 

We put a trail camera on a coyote den and found out why the deer population was dwindling.

Small pets around the area started disappearing and some thought it was devil worshipers, but what we found was that the coyote were at work doing what predators do, as after we cleaned out all the devil worshippers, the pets were still disappearing ! 

Mother nature needed a hand in controlling them, as left unchecked like any evasive species, they would've cleaned out every animal they could get their paws on and then probably die of mange or rabies, which is a painful death.

So I've been hunting them and in the areas I hunt and do farm over watch in, I know it makes a difference.

I've left out dead cow and legal picked up deer road kill for bait and have had nothing touch it for weeks in the areas I hunt.

Of course that makes them gather in areas I don't have permission to hunt and all of a sudden I'm getting calls in those areas now.

More and more people are getting tired of the growing coyote presence and their getting harassed more now a days, but I think the coyote will be around forever in NY state in good numbers as long as there's a coyote season and trapper numbers dwindle because of the declining fur prices.

No one wants to wear dead animal fur anymore.

SJC

 

Would love to see some of the den pics. I've heard of doz'w/100's of claims of den pics setup's. Asked everyone of them for pics. Still waiting for the 1st. Not sure why they are never posted.

 

[mattypotpie8S]

16 hours ago, Shoots100 said:

 

No one wants to wear dead animal fur anymore.

SJC

 

Isn’t it funny how some peoples attitude changes when the fur is gone? I wonder why leather is more acceptable than fur. 

[fasteddie]

Here is a Red Fox  on County Line Road in Walworth 

 

[mattypotpie8S]

I see a nice red fox

[fasteddie]

1 hour ago, mattypotpie8S said:

I see a nice red fox

My bad . I received it as a small picture and thought it was a Yote  . I can see the red on it in the the picture I posted . I thought the hearing went first but maybe it's the eyes .

[Shoots100]

13 hours ago, SteveB said:

Would love to see some of the den pics. I've heard of doz'w/100's of claims of den pics setup's. Asked everyone of them for pics. Still waiting for the 1st. Not sure why they are never posted.

 

Wasn't my camera and that occurred almost 15 years ago.

I was told that a fellow I know upstate has a citidiot anti hunter neighbor with a den on their property.

He hays their fields and is a 4H youth mentor.

He's going to ask them if he can set up a couple of trail cameras on it this spring for educational purposes.

Of course that den might not be in use if we kill all of the coyote hunting the farms around their property and I don't give a free pass to any coyote. 

SJC 

[LET EM GROW]

On 1/18/2023 at 2:50 PM, Four Seasons said:

That is only true to a point. Yes with Ny’s stupidest laws of them having a season…many states they are called the vermin that they are and killed 24/7.. a person will have a hard time being able to control a coyote problem. Most people have never seen a real coyote problem. Our 1000 acres and many of the neighbors were devoid of any kind of small game on their properties and the Turkey and deer population were going fast. When one declares war on them and does what it takes when the time is best you can rid your land of the problem and they never have a chance to come back in numbers. As with anything the young are the key. In this state you have to jump thru hoops to do it the legal way so most just don’t bother and do what they feel is best. Of course you will have those that agree and disagree but when they tie your hands and expect you to just watch something destroy what you bought and built things happen at times. 

If your property has what coyotes want and need to survive you will have to kill them every single time you see them to put a serious hurting on them. even in the 24/7 365 states, they are heavily populated.. when you see packs in summer or 8+ pups they are rebuilding.. I posted here a few years back of 11-13 pups in one litter on my property. Pretty wild.. throw in 2 or 3 coyote pairs that have 10 pups and a good share survive, that's 20-30 coyotes made by say 3 sets of parents.. 

They are really built to survive.. Fascinating creatures if you ask me. I love hunting them, but like anything else they need controlling as well. 

I think many people don't hunt them too much in warm weather bc there is so much else going on people are busy and doing other things. Winter creates a lot of down time and many people "Think" they're  going to become coyote hunters, but they really just become coyote educators lol. 

[LET EM GROW]

Here is a few from that litter i mentioned, I cant seem to find the pics where all of them are in one frame. That fall I got actually video footage on a camera of this pack(In September) killing a fawn, and the doe running crazy trying to distract the coyotes. You cna hear the fawn screaming in the background, and the doe and other coyotes running wild back and forth in front of the cam.. Then little while later, see the fawn in pieces being carried away.. 

This past summer they were back using this same den site, and always out at las tlight and into the mornings. We killed 5 of them opening week, calling after dark.. 

[Four Seasons]

1 hour ago, LET EM GROW said:

If your property has what coyotes want and need to survive you will have to kill them every single time you see them to put a serious hurting on them. even in the 24/7 365 states, they are heavily populated.. when you see packs in summer or 8+ pups they are rebuilding.. I posted here a few years back of 11-13 pups in one litter on my property. Pretty wild.. throw in 2 or 3 coyote pairs that have 10 pups and a good share survive, that's 20-30 coyotes made by say 3 sets of parents.. 

They are really built to survive.. Fascinating creatures if you ask me. I love hunting them, but like anything else they need controlling as well. 

I think many people don't hunt them too much in warm weather bc there is so much else going on people are busy and doing other things. Winter creates a lot of down time and many people "Think" they're  going to become coyote hunters, but they really just become coyote educators lol. 

True that. They are easily controlled when dealt with at a young age. Den’s, summers after hay fields being cut will let the air out of the problem quick. Then you will only see say the normal amount. Sitting on 3000 acres listening to a pack in every direction yipping back and forth to each other will show a problem. They would never be legally controlled in a state with seasons on them once the problem got big. Your right on hunters. Running with dogs around here keeps them moving in the winter.