Looks like there may just be statewide Antler Restricts.

[jjb4900]

I know that someone mentioned these "random" surveys are set up by extremely intelligent people, but after the first youth hunt I received a survey to fill out regarding it, I find it hard to believe I was randomly selected to fill out a survey about a hunt that my son and I successfully participated in...of course we sent back a positive review...I don't know of anyone who didn't participate that got one to fill out, does anyone else? 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

 If AR's were put in place  I would hope the dec would include out-of-state hunters in the DMP lottery to keep them coming back. If this isn't the case we may lose more hunters. 

They currently are in most areas, aren't they?

[BizCT]

Never realized how low priced the Non-Resident NY Deer tags are. In other states they can be $300-$700.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Never realized how low priced the Non-Resident NY Deer tags are. In other states they can be $300-$700.

Call Andy and thank him. He did that at the same time he lowered our equivalent of the Super Sportsman by that entire whopping ONE dollar.

[jjb4900]

They currently are in most areas, aren't they?

roughly half, give or take, don't give any out to non residents...if I counted correctly.

Edited January 9, 2015 by jjb4900

[First-light]

They currently are in most areas, aren't they?

No not available in 8P.

Edited January 9, 2015 by First-light

[dbHunterNY]

Very well put. Absolutely spoiled hunting some good land in NY. Then hunting virtually unknown public land this year in Mississippi and really what are different deer helped show this to me. I knew it would be tough, but it helps you appreciate what you have and I've never been so excited to harvest a doe. I was blessed later with a nice 9 and it meant a lot for me to hear a lot of locals have been hunting the land for years and never taken a buck like that. I certainly chalk some of it up to luck and that's hunting, but I also know I busted my ass, spent plenty of days seeing nothing but using topo maps and scouting and finding rubs and scrapes paid off.

Sounds like you took a nice buck in a state with ARs. Are deer are a little bigger up here but the spread of 15" is about the same as theirs compared to the deers ears.

[JFB]

I still find it hard to believe that some guys are totally baffled that other hunters are perfectly satisfied shooting any deer whether it be a spike, doe or big 10pt, and are just as excited regardless of what it is.......and look forward to doing the same thing year after year with no regrets.........it's a frigging animal for Christ's Sake!!!! no different to many than a rabbit, turkey, goose, duck or anything else they hunt and kill for enjoyment or whatever it is they get out of it. 

 

And on the other side of that coin I find it hard to believe that you find it hard to believe... 

 

It was mentioned that guys are different. Some competitive and wanting a different animal. To us, a mature buck is more captivating than a 1.5 yr old spike that is more curious than it is savvy. I've shot spikes when inexperienced, but the challenge and majestic nature of mature animals sends me that way. Why date a mean ugly girl if I can date a pretty nice girl I guess.

 

Again, if it's an area where a spike is rare, than it's all relative and maybe a 4pt is the challenge. But in so many areas we don't have to hope for a 4-6 pointer challenge and there can be good mature animals if a little age on the hoof is allowed. 

 

I know I'll get blasted for this, but what gets me is that those who shoot yearlings, are also quick to try and get a bullet into the mature deer we hunt. Sure, it's your right to shoot whatever buck... but what you don't realize is we pass up spikes, forks, 6s, 8s, heck I pass young 10s holding out for the mature animal.  

 

But you shoot all of the above. I help your hunt by passing, you detract mine for shooting everything. It only takes a few "brown it's down" guys to really change the landscape of what I'm trying to enjoy. If it were 12" bass, you could throw it back so it could grow up to the 4lb bass I challenge myself to catch. But this isn't fishing and a dead spike is a dead spike. 

[Pygmy]

 

And on the other side of that coin I find it hard to believe that you find it hard to believe... 

 

It was mentioned that guys are different. Some competitive and wanting a different animal. To us, a mature buck is more captivating than a 1.5 yr old spike that is more curious than it is savvy. I've shot spikes when inexperienced, but the challenge and majestic nature of mature animals sends me that way. Why date a mean ugly girl if I can date a pretty nice girl I guess.

 

Again, if it's an area where a spike is rare, than it's all relative and maybe a 4pt is the challenge. But in so many areas we don't have to hope for a 4-6 pointer challenge and there can be good mature animals if a little age on the hoof is allowed. 

 

I know I'll get blasted for this, but what gets me is that those who shoot yearlings, are also quick to try and get a bullet into the mature deer we hunt. Sure, it's your right to shoot whatever buck... but what you don't realize is we pass up spikes, forks, 6s, 8s, heck I pass young 10s holding out for the mature animal.  

 

But you shoot all of the above. I help your hunt by passing, you detract mine for shooting everything. It only takes a few "brown it's down" guys to really change the landscape of what I'm trying to enjoy. If it were 12" bass, you could throw it back so it could grow up to the 4lb bass I challenge myself to catch. But this isn't fishing and a dead spike is a dead spike.

 

[jjb4900]

And on the other side of that coin I find it hard to believe that you find it hard to believe... 

 

It was mentioned that guys are different. Some competitive and wanting a different animal. To us, a mature buck is more captivating than a 1.5 yr old spike that is more curious than it is savvy. I've shot spikes when inexperienced, but the challenge and majestic nature of mature animals sends me that way. Why date a mean ugly girl if I can date a pretty nice girl I guess.

 

Again, if it's an area where a spike is rare, than it's all relative and maybe a 4pt is the challenge. But in so many areas we don't have to hope for a 4-6 pointer challenge and there can be good mature animals if a little age on the hoof is allowed. 

 

I know I'll get blasted for this, but what gets me is that those who shoot yearlings, are also quick to try and get a bullet into the mature deer we hunt. Sure, it's your right to shoot whatever buck... but what you don't realize is we pass up spikes, forks, 6s, 8s, heck I pass young 10s holding out for the mature animal.  

 

But you shoot all of the above. I help your hunt by passing, you detract mine for shooting everything. It only takes a few "brown it's down" guys to really change the landscape of what I'm trying to enjoy. If it were 12" bass, you could throw it back so it could grow up to the 4lb bass I challenge myself to catch. But this isn't fishing and a dead spike is a dead spike. 

actually, I totally understand why some guys hunt big mature bucks and am not at all baffled by why they do it, nor do I think anyone else is......and I'll even go as far as to commend those who hunt for that reason....and it's really not a matter of them being quick to shoot YOUR deer, its a matter of them hunting for whatever reason they do so and whatever opportunity presents itself they take......I totally understand your reason, so why so hard to understand another's reason for doing something different?

[Pygmy]

Why ain't you SPECIAL..??..

Perhaps not everybody is LOOKING for a challenge..

Perhaps many of us just want to enjoy the sport and the outdoors and a chance to put a deer or two in the freezer..

You want a CHALLENGE....

Okay, that's your perogative... Just keep in mind that MANY of the folks that buy hunting licenses just want the opportunity to enjoy hunting with a reasonable chance of taking home some game..

[Lawdwaz]

How many guys kill 2 bucks per year in NY?

 

I asked that earlier in this thread but don't recall the answer.

 

I know a plenty of guys that do............

 

Regardless, if they can't kill a 2nd buck I think the antlerless count will most certainly increase, as is the intention of the DEC.

 

They wouldn't even have to increase the allotment of antlerless tags as there are so many unfilled each year. 

 

AR's or OBR would most certainly result in a reduction of the overall deer herd with button bucks and pregnant adult doe being harvested in place of a 2nd buck.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Lawdwaz

[stoneam2006]

If the intention is more doe killed in certain areas. Why not take a lesson from some of our counties or pa and make a month long BP season after xmas? Seams to work in parts already?

[jjb4900]

If the intention is more doe killed in certain areas. Why not take a lesson from some of our counties or pa and make a month long BP season after xmas? Seams to work in parts already?

or an early primitive BP season between archery and rifle.........that'll really get the dander flying.

[stoneam2006]

or an early primitive BP season between archery and rifle.........that'll really get the dander flying.

That just means I'd need a new gun.....

[JFB]

Why ain't you SPECIAL..??..

Perhaps not everybody is LOOKING for a challenge..

Perhaps many of us just want to enjoy the sport and the outdoors and a chance to put a deer or two in the freezer..

You want a CHALLENGE....

Okay, that's your perogative... Just keep in mind that MANY of the folks that buy hunting licenses just want the opportunity to enjoy hunting with a reasonable chance of taking home some game..

 

Ever notice how quick so many are to challenge our perspective especially when I simply answered his question? "Why ain't you SPECIAL"... bla bla bla. You guys constantly want to degrade so called "trophy hunters" and "antler worshipers", etc. We don't get on here and call you "bambi killer" so I ask who's the problem here? No one even knows it when I kill a big buck and I see more meat hunters with their antlered "avatar". 

 

If this were catch and release, I would cheer you on as you 'caught' yearlings in zones that have lots of deer. But dead is dead and when there are a few people in an area that slaughter what we pass it get's pretty frustrating. Not sure why THAT'S hard to understand. I guess if my shooting mature bucks downgraded your chance to see more yearlings maybe you'd care. 

[SteveB]

And on the other side of that coin I find it hard to believe that you find it hard to believe... 

 

It was mentioned that guys are different. Some competitive and wanting a different animal. To us, a mature buck is more captivating than a 1.5 yr old spike that is more curious than it is savvy. I've shot spikes when inexperienced, but the challenge and majestic nature of mature animals sends me that way. Why date a mean ugly girl if I can date a pretty nice girl I guess.

 

Again, if it's an area where a spike is rare, than it's all relative and maybe a 4pt is the challenge. But in so many areas we don't have to hope for a 4-6 pointer challenge and there can be good mature animals if a little age on the hoof is allowed. 

 

I know I'll get blasted for this, but what gets me is that those who shoot yearlings, are also quick to try and get a bullet into the mature deer we hunt. Sure, it's your right to shoot whatever buck... but what you don't realize is we pass up spikes, forks, 6s, 8s, heck I pass young 10s holding out for the mature animal.  

 

But you shoot all of the above. I help your hunt by passing, you detract mine for shooting everything. It only takes a few "brown it's down" guys to really change the landscape of what I'm trying to enjoy. If it were 12" bass, you could throw it back so it could grow up to the 4lb bass I challenge myself to catch. But this isn't fishing and a dead spike is a dead spike.

All that to say you want laws to support your goals and no one else's.

[SteveB]

If the intention is more doe killed in certain areas. Why not take a lesson from some of our counties or pa and make a month long BP season after xmas? Seams to work in parts already?

Short answer - landowners won't allow the snowmobile trails to open until after hunting season.

[stoneam2006]

Short answer - landowners won't allow the snowmobile trails to open until after hunting season.

Good point....what about a early season as done in the daks

[dbHunterNY]

or an early primitive BP season between archery and rifle.........that'll really get the dander flying.

I'd actually be for that but you'd almost have to make it doe only if hunting with muzzleloader. So many would pass doe and use it for a better opportunity at a buck. That would defeat the purpose of having the early season to begin with. Early doe harvest is good though. You're not waiting And shooting a doe that's probably bred which would then be a waste of the bucks energy that could carry it through the winter and into antler growing season better.

[First-light]

And on the other side of that coin I find it hard to believe that you find it hard to believe... 

 

It was mentioned that guys are different. Some competitive and wanting a different animal. To us, a mature buck is more captivating than a 1.5 yr old spike that is more curious than it is savvy. I've shot spikes when inexperienced, but the challenge and majestic nature of mature animals sends me that way. Why date a mean ugly girl if I can date a pretty nice girl I guess.

 

Again, if it's an area where a spike is rare, than it's all relative and maybe a 4pt is the challenge. But in so many areas we don't have to hope for a 4-6 pointer challenge and there can be good mature animals if a little age on the hoof is allowed. 

 

I know I'll get blasted for this, but what gets me is that those who shoot yearlings, are also quick to try and get a bullet into the mature deer we hunt. Sure, it's your right to shoot whatever buck... but what you don't realize is we pass up spikes, forks, 6s, 8s, heck I pass young 10s holding out for the mature animal.  

 

But you shoot all of the above. I help your hunt by passing, you detract mine for shooting everything. It only takes a few "brown it's down" guys to really change the landscape of what I'm trying to enjoy. If it were 12" bass, you could throw it back so it could grow up to the 4lb bass I challenge myself to catch. But this isn't fishing and a dead spike is a dead spike. 

It's a choice and the choice most take is shooting whatever they please which is totally within the legal boundaries. I understand what your saying but you paint with a broad brush. There are many circumstances that lead to shooting a young buck. My brother shot a small buck on his last hour of his hunting upstate this year. He knew he wasn't coming back and didn't have any meat. Stayed on stand all day in miserable weather. Now I ask that if you break your cherry on a buck please shoot something bigger next year. I was ok with this because I know how much his family enjoys the meat. My brother in law is in your camp. He has a nice piece of property that he imposes AR's upon. He lets walk some really nice 2.5 year olds looking for a really mature stud. He will shoot a few doe during the year. I have to give him credit because we both know when he is at work during the week the place next to him gets pushed by the locals all the time. Out of town leaser that owns it and it is a major bedding area. He knows that some of those deer he passes get shot. My first reaction to this news was don't tell me what I can shoot. After digesting the information I think I'm more concerned with the amount of doe and button bucks that may be taken. I don't want to see what happened in PA. Then again on my other post I want to see my out of state buddies get a shot at a DMP. Oh boy there is a lot going on here……………...

[nyantler]

Actually, you can take the absolute worst hunter set him up in a prime location with a good population of nice bucks, tell him exactly what to do and eventually he'll get one, thousands of guys who kill big deer on guided hunts prove that.............on the other hand, we can set you up with the best sneakers, best basketball, put you on a great court and you'll still fail.

Yeah but if you put the basket at 8 feet.. I can dunk like Lebron James. You missed the point... Given the same conditions and scenarios there will always be successful and non-successful participants... if the non successful continue to do the same things over and over it is likely that they will never succeed... some things just come easier to others.

[nyantler]

All that to say you want laws to support your goals and no one else's.

 

I think that's what's being said by everyone here... everyone here has their own goal... well except maybe those of us that don't care either way.

[nyantler]

he

Ever notice how quick so many are to challenge our perspective especially when I simply answered his question? "Why ain't you SPECIAL"... bla bla bla. You guys constantly want to degrade so called "trophy hunters" and "antler worshipers", etc. We don't get on here and call you "bambi killer" so I ask who's the problem here? No one even knows it when I kill a big buck and I see more meat hunters with their antlered "avatar". 

 

If this were catch and release, I would cheer you on as you 'caught' yearlings in zones that have lots of deer. But dead is dead and when there are a few people in an area that slaughter what we pass it get's pretty frustrating. Not sure why THAT'S hard to understand. I guess if my shooting mature bucks downgraded your chance to see more yearlings maybe you'd care. 

 

You keep using the term "mature bucks" like your motive for AR's is one of conservation and not about killing bigger trophy class bucks. I know that most of the QDMers talk a great game about management and actually know quite a bit about good deer management. But lets call a spade a spade here and admit that the real motive here for AR's has little to do with QDMers caring about healthy herds and habitats and more about creating super sized bucks to kill... and that's okay... but let's be honest about the real motivation. I've said this many times on here, but I'll say it again anyways for those that think I know nothing about the QDM movement... I was one of the first to introduce the program to NY back in 1990's and was one of the only hunters actively doing seminars on the subject promoting it's benefit as a management tool given our diminishing habitat in NY... I have watched it slowly move from deer management to deer farming for trophy bucks... Less talk about actually management of the herd as a whole and too much talk about the size of the bucks the program creates... the whole idea of antler restrictions has gotten out of control... most here know that I'm not against antler restrictions... I'm just not for AR's for the same reason as you.

[JFB]

You keep using the term "mature bucks" like your motive for AR's is one of conservation and not about killing bigger trophy class bucks. I know that most of the QDMers talk a great game about management and actually know quite a bit about good deer management. But lets call a spade a spade here and admit that the real motive here for AR's has little to do with QDMers caring about healthy herds and habitats and more about creating super sized bucks to kill... and that's okay... but let's be honest about the real motivation. I've said this many times on here, but I'll say it again anyways for those that think I know nothing about the QDM movement... I was one of the first to introduce the program to NY back in 1990's and was one of the only hunters actively doing seminars on the subject promoting it's benefit as a management tool given our diminishing habitat in NY... I have watched it slowly move from deer management to deer farming for trophy bucks... Less talk about actually management of the herd as a whole and too much talk about the size of the bucks the program creates... the whole idea of antler restrictions has gotten out of control... most here know that I'm not against antler restrictions... I'm just not for AR's for the same reason as you.

 

You missed the numerous posts where I've stated I'm not for statewide AR. I'd be happy with one buck and a shorter gun season. 

 

I'm not knee deep in the QDM movement but I do believe their stance is not pushing for AR so I think you're off point. 

 

And as much as I love a great rack, a few years ago there was a 150" class but had half his rack busted off and I planned to shoot him if I got a bow shot because there are not many 5.5+ old bucks running my area.