Letting The G/F Shoot My Guns Question

[DirtTime]

I was not sure where to post this. It's not really hunting, and it's not political.

I remember reading somewhere about the newer gun laws prohibit me from letting my g/f, brother, friend, or w/e use my guns. Even at the range and I am right there I thought it was prohibited.

I have looked, and maybe I am typing the wrong words to search for. What I keep finding is "To knowingly buy for, gift, or allow use of" a firearm to anyone you know is not legally allowed to own a firearm in NYS is a federal gun offense.

 

I will try and keep this simple and just use my g/f:

 

She is legal to own a firearm, I am legal to own a firearm so that's not a concern. Back three years ago when she bought the shotgun she never used ( then sold without even firing it ) I made her buy it. My thought with all the hoopla going on was, her gun she buys it. If I decide on a gun, I will buy it.

Anyways.........

Say, I am out shooting and she wants to shoot one of my guns can she?

Or say she does buy the .22 she keeps going back and forth about, and I feel lazy and want to just go sit and watch for squirrel can I use her .22?

 

Like I said, I cannot find anything decisive on it. I am most likely not looking in the right site ( DEC, Safe Act Rules ), or typing what I am asking right in the search.

 

I will probably end up just making a call and get the info. But curious if anyone has a link that I can read in black and white. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

it is the Un-Safe Act that you want to read. As far as making calls. if you make 3 you will get as many different answers.

[DirtTime]

it is the Un-Safe Act that you want to read. As far as making calls. if you make 3 you will get as many different answers.

 

I figured as much with calling. The whole thing is very gray. If you step this way the mud is an inch deep, step that way and you just landed in quicksand.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I figured as much with calling. The whole thing is very gray. If you step this way the mud is an inch deep, step that way and you just landed in quicksand.

It's by design. OK. insert qualifier here///not a lawyer...get your own legal advice...yadda yadda yadda.

 

That said I believe the POSSIBLE stumbling block is on the "transfer' portion of this. Is it a transfer if you hand it to someone without the proper steps? Personally I would think that a LEO would not be bent on writing you up on that. I personally wouldn't hesitate a second to do it especially if you are at an official range.

 

As a side note. marry her and you don't have anything to worry about....lol

[Elmo]

I was under the impression that it is okay for someone to use your firearms under your supervision (in your presence) but that you're held liable if something were to happen.  That's my guess.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Elmo

[DirtTime]

 

 

As a side note. marry her and you don't have anything to worry about....lol

 

Yeah, still working on that one. 

 

I was under the impression that it is okay for someone to use your firearms under your supervision (in your presence) but that you're held liable if something were to happen.  That's my guess.

 

That's what I thought. But, like I said, there are some very gray areas and the result can be nasty.

 

I actually don't shoot at a range/club right now. The private land I hunt I am welcome to shoot there to sight in, just not pop off rounds at camp for the hell of it. So that's where I took the new guns.

Fees are pretty high for my area at clubs/ranges, and the waiting list is brutal.

Actually, that land is owned by a retired LEO, and he does still have a son who is current LEO. I am sure they could get me the correct information. I would hope......

 

I just hate bothering them. They let me hunt and camp there, they are some of the best people I have ever known. 

[fasteddie]

From Rob's original post , I thought shooting someone else's gun not being okay pertained only to Pistols . Unless the pistol was on your permit you couldn't legally handle it . Prior to having guns registered when you bought them there was no registration . So , if the 22 that I bought 60 years ago was being used by my son , how would anyone know who the owner is / was ?

[grampy]

I called a close friend who happens to be a NYS trooper and asked him this question. Again this is not legal advice, so take it for what it is. I was told that as long as it's a long gun and not a pistol or a now not legal version " assault rifle ". Someone can legally shoot your rifle in your presence. As long as you are following all laws like distance from buildings and roads, and the person is not a convicted felon, you should be good.

He also thinks the safe act laws are poorly written and hard to understand, even for LEO'S. And understands the confusion of the law abiding citizens, trying to stay that way.

Edited July 21, 2015 by grampy

[Nomad]

If you were closer I'd open up my private range to you, what some call " The Webster Militia Proving Grounds"....... No rules there .

[DirtTime]

That's a great point eddie. No, it's not about pistols, and as you all know, my guns were bought about a week ago. My g/f will never hunt. But, she has shown interest in target shooting. 

 

What I am trying to figure out is the smoke and shadows that are the laws for NY. Most of it what's out there is about assault rifles.  

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Lawyers writing laws to keep lawyers in business.

[GreeneHunter]

Go buy some ammo and go out and have a blast (get it ?) ..... never mind asking questions ! IMHO !

[Doc]

A word about getting legal info: Do not use the telephone. You have no legal record of what was told to you. Inquire using e-mail or written letters so that the replies form a written document that you can keep.

[landtracdeerhunter]

Even before the SAFE. Act was slammed through, it was to my understanding that the guns legal owning could be held responsible in the event of an incident.

[jjb4900]

I'm fairly confident that there is no data base that allows them to just call in a regular long guns serial # and instantly get info on who is the owner......as far as I know, the info that is obtained when you buy a long gun is only retained by the FFL holder who sold it.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I'm fairly confident that there is no data base that allows them to just call in a regular long guns serial # and instantly get info on who is the owner......as far as I know, the info that is obtained when you buy a long gun is only retained by the FFL holder who sold it.

Supposedly (He says wearing his finest tin foil hat)  lol

[jjb4900]

I'm fairly confident that there is no data base that allows them to just call in a regular long guns serial # and instantly get info on who is the owner......as far as I know, the info that is obtained when you buy a long gun is only retained by the FFL holder who sold it.

that is, unless you live in an area that requires all guns to be registered, such as NYC...........and I've just proven the point of taking advice from the internet.

[jrm]

Long guns and outside NYC, it is perfectly legal to let you GF shoot the guns. I understand how the "transfer" terminology in the unsafe act can worry people, but that is not a transfer. To be extra safe, make sure you are there. Even the section quoted in the OP indicates someone who is not allowed to posses... I.e. Someone who would not pass a NICS check.

There are even provisions In the law to allows others to shoot your pistol. At a range, for example, it is legal for another license holder to use your pistol. It is done all the time. Under certain circumstances, even an unlicensed person can shoot a pistol (see PL 400 law for details.)

Also keep in mind that there is no way to know who owns a rifle. Who's to say that rifle isn't hers?

None of this is legal advice. IANAL.

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[Culvercreek hunt club]

.

There are even provisions In the law to allows others to shoot your pistol. At a range, for example, it is legal for another license holder to use your pistol. It is done all the time. Under certain circumstances, even an unlicensed person can shoot a pistol (see PL 400 law for details.)

 

Do you have a more detailed section that explains the use of a pistol at the range that is not registered to you?  Adults. I have seen the sections discussing youth.

[dbHunterNY]

From Rob's original post , I thought shooting someone else's gun not being okay pertained only to Pistols . Unless the pistol was on your permit you couldn't legally handle it . Prior to having guns registered when you bought them there was no registration . So , if the 22 that I bought 60 years ago was being used by my son , how would anyone know who the owner is / was ?

 

this is my understanding... only other exception is if owner is present and at least the owner or handler is a certified NRA pistol instructor.  so pretty much if it's on your permit you're good.  if not you're not good.

[jrm]

Do you have a more detailed section that explains the use of a pistol at the range that is not registered to you? Adults. I have seen the sections discussing youth.

Being on a mobile device, I don't have ready access to the sections. It is all in PL 400. I don't recall the section (different paragraph), but it is in the same area where they talk about youth.

Unlicensed people are covered in that area as well. Special circumstances apply, but there is still a provision for it.

The wording doesn't state something as simple as "a friend can borrow your pistol." However, as I recall, it is clear that another licensed person can shoot your pistol while you are there .

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[jrm]

Just found it but cannot paste a quote. My bad on the PL section..

It is clearly stated in PL 265.20 paragraph 7-a. See last line in that paragraph states it clearly. A long as license holder for that pistol is present, another license holder can use it.

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[jjb4900]

http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article265.htm?zoom_highlight=265.20

[DirtTime]

I am referring to rifles and shotguns. Neither of us have a pistol. I really don't remember where I read it and I can't find it now. There was something about not allowing people to use your firearms. I did make a call, and was told as long as both parties are legal to own a firearm it wasn't an issue, but the owner would be facing charges should something go wrong as well.

I don't really see her wanting to shoot my rifle or shotgun. But, I never underestimate her either. She never fails to shock me most times. LOL

If she was to buy her .22 rifle, I was more or less trying to find if I could use it to hunt with. I am not a huge .22 fan, but they have a time and place. I also can't see having two rifles in the house of the same caliber, well at least not .22's.

Things used to be easy. Your brother stopped in and said "Hey, I want to hunt rabbits this weekend, can I borrow one of your shotguns?", you would say sure and not really think about it. All this new mumbo jumbo is like reading what a 2 year old wrote with a crayon.