DEC Announces Proposed Rule Changes to Allow Big Bore Air Rifles for Big Game Hunting

[Elmo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o0XVa5oyMU

[First-light]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o0XVa5oyMU

Pretty impressive. Not much noise at all when shot. 

[Doc]

At last, finally we are getting to a few real numbers in some of these videos and web-sites. Still a bit light on trajectory and range info, but little by little there is some actual penetration examples, animal sizes, and a little speed and projectile data. So far I have seen the performance at distance data but I did note in one of the videos that the hunter with the Benjamin .357 Rogue felt that his setup on a hartebeest was 50 yards maximum.

 

While I was looking at some of the web-sites, I started to get the idea that the expensive rifle itself was only part of the cost. There seems to be tanks and all kinds of other pneumatic accessories that have to be bought also. I didn't find where they really got into that stuff but some of the tank costs looked a little huge to me. Also no mention of how many shots per tank, so I have no idea what the real cost per shot is. And hopefully that $1295 compressor or the $3000 one are not essential accessories .... lol. It's all interesting stuff, but still a lot of performance numbers missing.

 

And some of what I saw on these sites and in the videos still has me wondering why anyone would think that these things are safe to use in urban and suburban scenarios where other rifles have been outlawed for deer hunting. Apparently certain chosen models equipped in certain ways are capable of taking down a water buffalo. That model at least probably wouldn't really be suitable for inner city deer hunting ..... lol.

 

But I will say that it is an interesting subject.

[landtracdeerhunter]

Working on the story now for our Jan. 8 edition of NY Outdoor News, but this is it in a nutshell regarding regs:

 

Air rifles would be allowed for taking big game only where other types of rifles are allowed.

 

So if you're in the state's rifle zone now, you would be good to go with an air rifle that meets the requirement for big game.....

 

Some of the Lake Plains area is a non rifle area. It is also a antlerless only; early bow, late muzzleloader.  This means one more kick in the .......   

[airedale]

"And hopefully that $1295 compressor or the $3000 one are not essential accessories" 

 

Doc,

I have a Benjamin Marauder 25 cal PCP rifle, it is remarkably accurate and I use the Benjamin hand pump to charge it. I can tell you if any amount shooting is done I get one heck of a workout. Once one settles on a load and just use their rifle in the field for hunting the hand pump alone will work just fine. Sitting at the bench and plinking and firing away a few hundred shots will get old in a hurry with the hand pump. The side benefit would be the user would have arms looking like Arnold Schwarzenegger in short order.

 

As for power the current 35 cal Benjamin Bulldog has enough power for Deer hunting with proper bullets. The thing is ballistics show it would not even be as powerful as a 9mm or 38 special handgun round.

 

I am sure with the right bullet and shot placement both the 9mm and 38 special will kill a Deer but most hunters would probably not be in favor of using those calibers.

 

There are larger calibers  available but I do not know much about them but pumping them up with a hand pump will not be fun.

 

Al

Edited December 28, 2015 by airedale

[airedale]

Pyramid Air did some testing of the Benjamin 35 cal Bulldog

 

Velocity testing, and here's what they found using an 81-grain JSB pellet. The reservoir was filled to 3,000 psi for this shot string. The ending pressure was 1,900 psi:

Shot 1: 897
Shot 2: 908
Shot 3: 903
Shot 4: 892
Shot 5: 882
Shot 6: 876
Shot 7: 864
Shot 8: 848
Shot 9: 833
Shot 10: 817

 

Nosler make a special 145 gr bullet for this gun, I have not seen exactly what it does ballistics wise but it has to be slower than the above 81 gr pellets. I do know that larger game animals such as hogs have been taken with the Benjamin-Nosler combination.

[Doc]

Well, I have no doubt that an air-rifle that can take down a water buffalo, probably is powerful enough to do in a deer. But my impression is that there is a wide variety of  these things from B-B guns to some beastly thing capable of killing a water buffalo. It sounds like they had better do a damn good job of describing minimum requirements, or there is the possibility that there will be people out there using all kinds of under-powered, unethical weapons. Even with gunpowder powered deer rifles, I don't believe that the DEC did an adequate job of defining minimums. Let's hope they do a better job on air powered rifles.

[ants]

Just heard that the DEC just announced a proposed rule change that would allow the wearing of hot pink instead of blaze orange, during gun season. 

[Skillet]

Nothing to do with anyone's statements or comments.

 

If they allow them I am fine with it. I have no issues with any legal weapon someone can use to make a clean kill on any game animal.

But why are they using a quietness factor for the whole proposal? That's what I say makes no sense.

 

I would also like to see what regs put on them as far as FPS. What about buying them? In NY you now have to be approved by NICS for a muzzle loader. So how will it work buying an air rifle if this passes?

 

When did it become necessary to pass a NICS check to buy a muzzleloader? I think you're mistaken.

[ants]

When did it become necessary to pass a NICS check to buy a muzzleloader? I think you're mistaken.

In NY you only have to pass a NICS check, to buy a muzzleloader, if the muzzleloader is a model that can accept a centerfire barrel. Like the T/C model that can have the muzzleloader barrel swapped out for a bunch of different centerfire barrels. (can't think of the model right now)

Edited December 28, 2015 by ants

[Skillet]

Thanks, Ants.

[Elmo]

Just heard that the DEC just announced a proposed rule change that would allow the wearing of hot pink instead of blaze orange, during gun season. 

 

 I know this was meant as a joke but I'm sure there already are some women and young girls who would if not already wearing pink camo during gun season.

[ants]

 I know this was meant as a joke but I'm sure there already are some women and young girls who would if not already wearing pink camo during gun season.

EXACTLY

[moog5050]

 I know this was meant as a joke but I'm sure there already are some women and young girls who would if not already wearing pink camo during gun season.

 

Lets not be sexist Elmo.  Phade wears mostly pink during gun season too.

[shawnhu]

Lets not be sexist Elmo. Phade wears mostly pink during gun season too.

Pink is the new lost camo

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[growalot]

There's nothing new about t h e fact h o t pink is the least detectable color for deer vision...it's been known science for years. I joked about it here a couple of years ago....personally I'll stick with orange..I dislike pink..but it does look good on some men...lol

[EspressoBuzz]

On Long Island I get a old scuba tank filled to 3500 psi which is enough for me. 3500 psi is the highest most scuba shops can go and my guy in Northport charges me $3 for a fill up and comp-ed me the last few times. The tanks specifically for airguns are 4500 psi tanks.

[Buckmaster7600]

Pyramid Air did some testing of the Benjamin 35 cal Bulldog

Velocity testing, and here's what they found using an 81-grain JSB pellet. The reservoir was filled to 3,000 psi for this shot string. The ending pressure was 1,900 psi:

Shot 1: 897

Shot 2: 908

Shot 3: 903

Shot 4: 892

Shot 5: 882

Shot 6: 876

Shot 7: 864

Shot 8: 848

Shot 9: 833

Shot 10: 817

Nosler make a special 145 gr bullet for this gun, I have not seen exactly what it does ballistics wise but it has to be slower than the above 81 gr pellets. I do know that larger game animals such as hogs have been taken with the Benjamin-Nosler

combination.

Those numbers are anemic to say the least that's 380acp numbers. Although I like carrying a 380 in my pocket I wouldn't use it to kill anything bigger than a raccoon.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Buckmaster7600

[airedale]

Speaking of a 380 acp years ago I watched a hunter attempt to dispatch a wounded but downed Deer that was still quite alive with a broken back. Not wanting to shoot it again with his 12 ga he took out of his pocket a 380 pistol and point blank shot the Deer between the eyes. The bullet actually bounced off the Deer's head, probably the angle was just such that made this happen but I can tell you I was never much a fan of the 380 after witnessing that.

 

Al

[Buckmaster7600]

Speaking of a 380 acp years ago I watched a hunter attempt to dispatch a wounded but downed Deer that was still quite alive with a broken back. Not wanting to shoot it again with his 12 ga he took out of his pocket a 380 pistol and point blank shot the Deer between the eyes. The bullet actually bounced off the Deer's head, probably the angle was just such that made this happen but I can tell you I was never much a fan of the 380 after witnessing that.

Al

In my pocket I consider it better than a stick or a knife but I hope whom ever I'm trying to kill doesn't have a gun or at least doesn't know how to use it!

[DirtTime]

In NY you only have to pass a NICS check, to buy a muzzleloader, if the muzzleloader is a model that can accept a centerfire barrel. Like the T/C model that can have the muzzleloader barrel swapped out for a bunch of different centerfire barrels. (can't think of the model right now)

I was in three different shops when looking for my guns last summer, and all of them had signs up saying "All Muzzle Loading Firearms are now subject to NICS check". Didn't ask about it as I am not interested in a ML.

 

You do all realize that Benjamin are owned by Crosman?

[Rebel Darling]

I was in three different shops when looking for my guns last summer, and all of them had signs up saying "All Muzzle Loading Firearms are now subject to NICS check". Didn't ask about it as I am not interested in a ML.

 

You do all realize that Benjamin are owned by Crosman?

 

Huh...  I bought a muzzle loader at DICK'S in Albany this October.  No NICS check.  Walked out in 10 minutes, muzzle loader in hand.

[growalot]

Rob... It use to be if you were a felon in NYS that you could still hunt using a Black powder rifle/shotgun... I believe it was  2012 those rules changed and felons could not own or use a blk powder...So I have no doubt you saw those signs

 

http://ocshooters.com/blog/?p=274

[Tacti_Steve]

I didn't read this entire thread just the first few pages. What I'll say is that I hunt less than a mile from the village I live in. This year I had the cops called on me after the farmer begged me to hunt this one particular field. I was legal and safe and the cops thanked me for shooting the Deer there because they write an accident report a week right there. The only reason the lady next door new I shot was because it was a 12 ga (no rifle there). I don't bow hunt anymore and it wouldn't have been effective there anyway because I was laying down in the middle of a clover field. An air rifle may have avoided that. Plus there is no reason everyone in the village needs to know when I shoot. I also shoot subsonic out of my 22 when coon hunting as sometimes thats actually within the village limits. I have one of those spring powered 1200 fps pellet guns and it too works pretty good for shooting down coons. I would like to see air rifles opened up. I am all for any new technology that improves the hunting experience. Everyone should be free to hunt with what they want as long as its safe. 

[RoadKill44]

I can’t believe a 30 cal. air gun is going to do any better than a field tip on an arrow. Yes, you can hit a deer and put a hole through him, but you’re not going to create a lot of bleeding or deliver a knockdown blow at 650 fps. Manufacturers may say for “Big Game” but “Come-on”. Literally it’s got to be a come on. I’m obviously stating I wouldn’t buy one unless I wanted to practice my tracking skills over long distances. I can do quiet with a bow and I might not have to be as close.

 

The only advantage I see is suburban backyard population control when I could care less about recovery. It would work but I think a bit unethical.