Activism

[Doc]

I took note of the deer hunter attendance reported at a recent deer management seminar. The number was something like 64? That number indicates that hunters pretty much sat this one out. Shame on us .....right?

 

We are a pretty opinionated, passionate bunch of people, so why do such activities draw such feeble attendance. I think I know.

 

If we were to attend all the functions and do research and join all the advocacy groups, and research all the political and responsible things that we as good citizens are expected to do, there truly would be no time left in the day to live out our lives. Think about it. All kinds of informative meetings take place many times a year. Elections and campaigns are all things that require intense research, local, state and federal. We literally have thousands of politicians and agencies to keep tabs on. We have school boards and teachers to keep our eyes on. We have judicial branches to keep abreast of. The list of responsibilities that the average citizen is expected to maintain an expert status on is limitless. And if you do not maintain a constant vigil on all of these necessary forces in our lives, you will get chastised and told that you have no right to an opinion if we have not performed the due diligence in becoming expert on all things going on around you. And yet we also have occupations that we are supposed to be expert at so that we can earn a living. We have children to raise, we have homes and personal finance that also require infinite attention. What I am describing is an impossible list of responsibilities that no one who is honest really does a complete job on. Oh, and if you plan on doing any kind of recreation like the hunting itself, well sorry, no time left for that..... too many things that require your intense attention.

 

Well given that impressive and infinitely long list of required attention to all things around us, where do you suppose that a deer management seminar sits on a persons list of priorities? Anybody surprised that only 64 people decided to bump their deer management understanding up to top priority for the night? If you didn't go should you now be considered muzzled from expressing any opinions? What do all of you do to be expert on all things so that your opinion is valued as credible commentary?

[gjs4]

I haven't topped 800 on survey posted everyone on FB, twitter and the forums..... totally agreed; shame on us. I think the state keeps us easy pray for we are so divided and lazy (referring to the masses). Most of my hunting fraternity embarrasses me here in NY.

 

If you don't partake- you shouldnt have the right to squawk IMO. However- Jeremy asking for solutions to their created problems is total BS as well

[DirtTime]

I haven't topped 800 on survey posted everyone on FB, twitter and the forums..... totally agreed; shame on us. I think the state keeps us easy pray for we are so divided and lazy (referring to the masses). Most of my hunting fraternity embarrasses me here in NY.

 

If you don't partake- you shouldnt have the right to squawk IMO. However- Jeremy asking for solutions to their created problems is total BS as well

What does the red part mean?

Are you saying that if we don't attend all the seminars or meetings about hunting we don't have a right to say anything? Or are you saying if people don't hunt they have no right to say anything?

[Rebel Darling]

Perhaps part of the issue is an individual's ability or inability to defer to a presentation of a course of action that doesn't match up with their expectations 100%. I've had a pair of potent beers, so please excuse the intrusion of opinion, but somewhere along the line, we (and that's a general we) blurred the benefit of compromise. Many of the organizations exist as another level of representation because of a loss of trust in our first tier, our elected officials. That might play into an inability to defer to "experts" and/or officials.

Please excuse the ramble...

I'm all thumbs when using Tapatalk

[jjb4900]

I think many greatly overestimate the amount of hunters who really give a crap about Deer management.....

[G-Man]

The country hasn't changed, as the Japanese said after ww2 I fear we have awakend a sleeping giant, the same is true of 9/11 before 2 flags flew on my street 2 days after every house had a flag.. now 2 again.

Most people just want a tag to go hunt deer at a reasonable price

[gjs4]

What does the red part mean?

Are you saying that if we don't attend all the seminars or meetings about hunting we don't have a right to say anything? Or are you saying if people don't hunt they have no right to say anything?

If you don't vote- don't complain about the election. If you don't spend time gathering the facts- don't stake your claim of being right. If you're antihunting but hate hunting and use parks- you best be making donations. Way too many arguments on here or with hunting are based on personal wants and the number of years a hunter has in the game....not why it makes sense for the animals, the activity, or the facts to arrive at that conclusion.

Lmk if that doesn't clarify my first attempt.

[DirtTime]

If you don't vote- don't complain about the election. If you don't spend time gathering the facts- don't stake your claim of being right. If you're antihunting but hate hunting and use parks- you best be making donations. Way too many arguments on here or with hunting are based on personal wants and the number of years a hunter has in the game....not why it makes sense for the animals, the activity, or the facts to arrive at that conclusion.

Lmk if that doesn't clarify my first attempt.

I agree 100% with this.

What I do not agree with is if you don't attend every seminar or meeting you are not a hunter. This gathering in question was 6 1/2 hours from me. Am I expected to drive that far just to prove I care or I am a hunter? Would the people from WNY go out of their way to attend a meeting in Albany or a borough of NYC?

[gjs4]

What I do not agree with is if you don't attend every seminar or meeting you are not a hunter. ?

Not what I was saying- if it was in your neighborhood and you had a fair chance- maybe but that's not the case. They prey on locations and times that conflict w likely attendance imo

[DirtTime]

I already stated I would like to attend one of these seminars if they have one in my area. You didn't read the whole thread.

 

[Doc]

I think that most lost the whole point of this thread. As I went through the endless partial list of some real important responsibilities that we have as citizens and parents and providers, the thing is that it is absolutely impossible to be expert at all of these things. It is impossible to be the ultimate "joiners" and activists. And so you really do have to prioritize and accept that not every important issue is going to receive its maximum amount of your attention. And so you have to prioritize. So the question is just where does deer management education sit on your list of priorities amongst all the truly important civic and personal activities and events and areas of study in your life? Perhaps 64 attendees was not really all that bad.

[G-Man]

I've been to deer herd meeting for dec before, most are not well attended unless it's a hot button topic of elimination of a tag, thay seems to get people out of the wood work, I remember 10 or so years ago a meeting in hamburg after a bad hunting season, the place was full. Everyone screaming there are no deer while myself and 2 friends sat quietly as we had tagged out thay year.

I try to go when other demands on my time are met and I have time to spare, but there isn't really anything that makes my blood boil about deer management, yes I d like to see full inclusion of crossbow, but I sent my letter in about that, one buck well I read that idea is scrapped for now, same with further antler restrictions... so why would I attend a meeting that really has no topics I'm interested in.

[jjb4900]

yeah, I did miss the point.....I'll write letters, emails, and answer surveys from home as well as following any pending proposals or pending changes....that doesn't take much time or really interfere with other stuff I have going on. I don't have the time to devote to spending a few hours going to meetings to listen to topics that don't interest me......as far as how important it is considering all the other stuff that affects me and my family? probably down in the lower quarter on the scale....but I certainly do not do anything about it.

[grampy]

Some very good comments made here already. So just my two cents.......

I'm very pasionate about and try to stay active and promote the things I love and enjoy. But there is a point where over activism would cut into the time spent actually doing the things I love and enjoy.

[Nomad]

Most deer hunters just don't care that much. It's something to do, and if it went away they'd find something else . When I retire in a year and move either full or part time out of NYS, I may take up surf fishing and hog hunting or perhaps just play shuffleboard ....

If I visit friends for a week and deer hunt ,well ok .

Edited March 26, 2016 by Larry302

[wooly]

Organizations and meetings have never been my thing. I've never been one to hoot and holler hoping someone would listen or hear me.

Set the rules, tell me what I can shoot, and when I can shoot it and I'll comply. The DEC has been pretty consistent in accomplishing that so I'm not to concerned.

Deer hunting doesn't consume my life anymore so I just go with the flow. My free time gets used for much more enjoyable things rather than sitting around listening to whatever other petty things everyone else is so upset about.

 

It's all good on my end, and I can always find something else to do if in fact changes in deer hunting ever make it un-enjoyable for me any longer.

[Doc]

That brings another thing has come to mind regarding activism. Statistics show that as  population segment, most of us are getting a lot older, with some changes in passions and energy levels. Yes there are some issues that hit my hot buttons, and do edge hunting issues up the list of priorities a bit. I will say that the Safe Law got me pumped up pretty good, but that is a constitutional issue and probably does deserve a higher level on my priorities. Straight deer management issues don't even come close to that one.

 

But over all, I am not as excitable as I used to be, and age probably has a factor in that. So I no longer feel that I have to attend every meeting that someone wants to hold.

[NFA-ADK]

To answer your question Doc it is low on my list of concerns.  Would I attend a meeting, sure if it was within a reasonable drive, not 6 plus hours.  Why because my opinion does not matter to them.  Hundreds maybe even thousands of hunters have stated how low the deer population has been yet they ignore the people in the woods.  So what's the point of driving X miles and wasting my time money and effort to have no affect!  Will the DEC listen, yes but they do not act, except to defend why they are killing so many deer as they seem to think we are over populated.

 

Is hunting for deer a concern, yes, new recruitment yes but apparently NYS would rather use snipers instead of hunters to keep deer in check, another fail on DEC.  They failed on doe only for first 2 weeks in bow.  They failed on keeping hunters happy, yes this is part of what they do otherwise antler restrictions, crossbow and early muzzleloader seasons would not be an issue. 

 

Maybe I just see things in a different light.  DEC are just pawns of the political establishment and have to listen to them not hunters.  And all they care about is keeping the population down and acting like they care by using antler restrictions and crossbows to appease the masses but that does not seem to be working as the masses care more about having a deer in the woods vs using a crossbow during bow season when no deer are present.

 

Should I go and sit in front of a DEC office and protest how bad they are managing the deer?  Sure if I want them following me every place I hunt, no thanks!  I would be better off protesting the Police with a sign that says F the Police in front of the Police station!  (Yea NO!  I wont be doing that anytime soon either!)

 

Zero tolerance yep that is about where I am right now with the DEC and how they manage deer.  They suck at it!  Unless you want no deer in your area like the insurance companies then they are great!   

 

Sorry for the rant, I was young I needed the money!

[gjs4]

There is always something so ironic about how some spend days, weeks, months scouting....others days, weeks, hundreds, thousands in land work..... Others watch hundreds of hours in tv shows....many sit forever in stands full of hope....some want lots of deer other just one big one....the best and worst part of hunting is the variation in our input and desires.

Most, especially in ny, do little to now prep, wouldn't know conservation or woodsman ship if it b slapped them and just show up to take. To me, the guys buying or sight in in guns the night before gun opener aren't hunters and take more from this than I can stand. Being one of the lucky recipients of the dec s bs injection in Henrietta- I'm not a hero as much as a dipchit and find no fault in those who know better than to show up for the beating. I do feel like it allows me to be better prepared for fights ahead and more intune w my own desires though.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Doc]

So many things to do and such an insufficient amount of time to do it. Yeah, we have all kinds of people trying to tell us all about what good citizens must do on a daily basis to remain good citizens. We are preached at, cajoled, told we have no rights to opinions because we don't devote our entire lives (and then some) to studying, and researching and spying on those agencies that are supposedly charged with carrying out the duties that they are paid for. But the truth is that even those doing the preaching have not reached expert status on all those things that we are supposed to be keeping track of. How do I know that? ..... Simple, there are not enough hours in a day to become subject experts on all those disciplines that we are supposed to become experts at.

[Rebel Darling]

Yeah, I totally missed the question. 

 

I'd like to attend a deer management seminar to learn if I have something to contribute.  It will also enable me to "see for myself" or to hear it "straight from the horse's mouth," so to speak.  I attend as many town hall meetings as I can for the same reason.  Maybe it's mostly curiosity, or a desire to be involved, and informed as much as I can.  I've found that turning the TV off, which we did a decade ago, has freed up so much more time for "investigative" pursuits, or indulging my curiosity, or participating in a variety of communities, such as this one here on this forum.  And for just getting outside.  My "small talk" has suffered, though.

 

But if I were forced to prioritize, paying the mortgage, car payments, utilities, etc., and making sure I'm employed to bring in that money sit atop deer management.  Family and friends above those.  If I wasn't required to earn money, who knows where my interests would lead me...

 

 

[mike rossi]

Doc as usual, your post is highly nuanced and misleading. My suspicion of you continues to grow. 

 

You are the only person I have ever heard imply an activist needs the same level of knowledge as a subject matter expert. That statement not only is misleading, but it fuels a defeatist attitude and serves to discourage people from engaging.

 

You also imply that every activist needs to engage in every level of outreach. While that is ideal, you have pointed out the obvious - that not everyone can be a super-activist. Gee, Doc, thanks, again, for pointing out the obvious. Why do you think readers who have jobs, drive automobiles, and play with guns need to be shown the obvious? Wouldn't productive and constructive dialogue discuss the importance of engaging at a level compatible within a person's limitations? Why, despite never being short of words and time, do you over and over omit anything positive or which would facilitate a favorable outcome for hunters?   

 

 

 

 

[Doc]

Doc as usual, your post is highly nuanced and misleading. My suspicion of you continues to grow. 

 

You are the only person I have ever heard imply an activist needs the same level of knowledge as a subject matter expert. That statement not only is misleading, but it fuels a defeatist attitude and serves to discourage people from engaging.

 

You also imply that every activist needs to engage in every level of outreach. While that is ideal, you have pointed out the obvious - that not everyone can be a super-activist. Gee, Doc, thanks, again, for pointing out the obvious. Why do you think readers who have jobs, drive automobiles, and play with guns need to be shown the obvious? Wouldn't productive and constructive dialogue discuss the importance of engaging at a level compatible within a person's limitations? Why, despite never being short of words and time, do you over and over omit anything positive or which would facilitate a favorable outcome for hunters?   

What's the matter poopsie, your medication running a bit short. Feeling an overwhelming, uncontrollable need for random flaming? Do you feel better now? Are you starting to feel a bit more calmed now? I have no idea what your problem is other than a defective personality, but if these mindless unprovoked attacks soothe your internal rage in some way, I am glad to be of assistance.....lol. Hope you have a better day.

[Merlot]

I'll become more of an activist after my son is established in his career and I divorce my wife. I should have time then.

[Curmudgeon]

I missed it. So shoot me...............