Encouraging private land being opened to general hunting

[grampy]

9 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

The problem is when you let 1 they bring friends then the friends bring Iriends and on and on. Last year my b rother in law asked if he could hunt one of my properties while I was up at my camp, I reluctantly said yes but only for the 2 days I'll be gone. I come home and hunt the next evening I see a bunch of boot prints and drag marks after my bil told me he didn't get anything. When I come out to my truck the neighbor is standing by my truck he tells me there was 2 trucks here the last 2 days and he just wanted to let me know. Long story short I finally got an answer out of my Bil and he invited a buddy to join him and his buddy brought his brother and a friend they killed a doe and a spike after I told him NO does or small bucks. In the end I did it to myself I should have known better and I still did it.


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Yup, sounds familiar. Here is just one of the deals that cause us to give everyone the boot. A friend of a friend, who I barely knew, climbed up in one of my ladder stands without asking and shoots at a doe. I was hunting another stand nearby and see the doe run by me out of range. I could see she was hurt bad. So I climb down to see a good blood trail and this jerk walking out to his truck! I called to him and said did you shoot? He said yeah, but I missed! Never even went to check! I told him in a not so nice way that his doe laid dead less than 100 yards from where he shot and to turn the hell around! Then he gets pissy with me! Just one of too many stories. Never again!

[ATbuckhunter]

When I get a property of my own, nothing will get me to open up my land for everyone to use. Why should I pay all that money and have everyone use it and abuse it? Now I will let a lot of people hunt, but majority of those will be people I know and trust. 

[Nomad]

Of all land owners , hunters are least likely to open their land to others hunting , with farmers close behind .

One needs to seek out  folks who've inherited land, investors ,  folks with big houses on 10 or 20 wooded acres ,other rec. owners ( summer camps, snowmobilers ).

 

[Chef]

I am in the process of buying land now, and no one I mean no one, excerpt for me and my long time hunting partner will be able to hunt it.... Land will be posted and trespassers will be chased off


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[DirtTime]

If I owned land I would a real hard *** about posting it and keeping trespassers out! Maybe, a big maybe, I might allow a friend or two on there, If I was hunting that day as well, but would never allow anyone to have access if I wasn't there. Heck, I don't like sharing the private land in the NZ I hunt, but, that's out of my control.

[NFA-ADK]

We all work hard for the land we own.  Hard to give it up so easily for hunting when that is what you purchased it for.

  Tax and insurance brakes and helping out the ecosystem, only incentives I can think of.

[Doc]

So anyway, we all recognize that the growing access problem is strangling hunting, and we demand that the DEC do something about it, but landowners are unwilling to open their land under any circumstances (usually for damn good reasons). So are we then resigned to the fact that nothing can be done and that the future of hunting is doomed? It sounds like it to me. I don't see any realistic options.

[G-Man]

A big tax break and no liability would do it for me. I enjoy scouting and seeing other people get game I've scouted for, but I myself hunt less.and less. As it is now very rarely does someone ask to hunt and my name and address are very viable on the posted signs. Word in town is I'm a hard ass but the few that have asked I've given permission too and they have become good friends.  Perhaps I'm in the minority but I just want to know where everyone is for safety and enjoyment of everyone. 

As for lack of access ,after opening day I rarely see any one in the local state lands . Perhaps the myth that every state land is an orange army keeps them away. I know a few that do very well on state land every year and never seem to have a problem with other hunters. . 

[Chef]

Just a little side note, I just purchased a place with family, my cousin to be exact. He does not hunt. At lunch yesterday we were talking about having friends up for a pig roast and things of that nature. He mentioned that he would like to let two of his friends hunt.... I told him absolutely not. I said if you get a liscense and want to take them out with you that's one thing but not a chance in hell are they coming to hunt. I bought land to get away from other hunters not to invite friends.... Am I wrong that the only other person I want to hunt is my long time friend and hunting partner..... Honestly wouldn't even let my own brother hunt without me there. And maybe not even if I was there


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[growalot]

It's the grass is always greener syndrome that fuels non owning hunters angst...Only land owners have the deer numbers and big bucks and we're hording them..... for some...not all, but some.  Now the access issue is a real problem  in the suburbs where deer and ppl are really shoulder to shoulder...I can see where incentives could work there. Although then you have the neighbor issue. Again an area where the DEC has dropped the ball...they need area specific..I'm talking neighbor hood meetings.  Out lining a plan where neighbors could agree on bow hunters vetted through a program would be allowed access at certain times...but see that would be a little more effort and feet on the ground than they would like... This wouldn't be like their studies they farm out...

[jjb4900]

I've never had the need to knock on a door and seek land to hunt on, always been rather successful on the public land I hunt on, I have hunted private land that was just offered up to me, but I never sought it out. The few times I thought about it was driving past and seeing property with nice deer, turkey or whatever, and just to stop and ask because of me wanting to go after a certain animal seemed kind of shallow, so I passed. I stopped going to one piece of private property that I hunted because on one occasion the landowner/friend told me I could bring my brother in law along with the stipulation to pleases not take any small deer....well it was late muzzleloader and I heard my companion shoot so I started making my way over and heard a second shot...turns out he killed two little button bucks, I never went back after that...although I didn't screw it up I felt responsible for that incident......it was like a double screw up, not only two little deer, but button bucks to boot.

Edited July 25, 2016 by jjb4900
add more info

[G-Man]

18 minutes ago, growalot said:

It's the grass is always greener syndrome that fuels non owning hunters angst...Only land owners have the deer numbers and big bucks and we're hording them..... for some...not all, but some.  Now the access issue is a real problem  in the suburbs where deer and ppl are really shoulder to shoulder...I can see where incentives could work there. Although then you have the neighbor issue. Again an area where the DEC has dropped the ball...they need area specific..I'm talking neighbor hood meetings.  Out lining a plan where neighbors could agree on bow hunters vetted through a program would be allowed access at certain times...but see that would be a little more effort and feet on the ground than they would like... This wouldn't be like their studies they farm out...

The dec can only regulate what the laws allow them to , this issue is out of their hands. To increase private land availability the state would have to enact laws the dec could then re gulate and enforce .  Our dec is not a game comission although many think it is.. 

[The_Field_Ager]

On 7/22/2016 at 4:30 AM, Doc said:

So, to the landowners who have posted their land, what would it take to convince you to open your land to general hunting? Is there anything that would convince you to take down those posted signs, or enter into a cooperative plan to allow general public hunting access.

 

We have repeatedly heard that the biggest danger to hunting and wildlife management is lack of land access. We all want the DEC and legislators to get landowners to open their land to the general public so that deer management can be achieved. What effective kinds of incentives or laws would you all support to make this happen?

In other words, make it no longer Private? My modest patch of woods is heavily posted because local Marxists felt like they already owned the place and considered it public.

[growalot]

That is not what I was saying...they most certainly do have the legal ease and ability,not to mention, should have the knowledge, to set up such meetings. To give/plan information and encouragement to neighborhoods in high density areas to open neighborhoods to planned hunts.

 

BTW that suggestion is really no different than the neighborhood meetings they held in this area when blk. bear became numerous. Those meetings were held to encourage ppl not to feed bears out lined a plan to avoid bear conflicts and spelled out regulations. 

The only difference is they'd out line and encourage opening up the neighbor hoods as a group to rid them selves of problem deer. Which would take a bit more finesse and a lot more planning.

Edited July 25, 2016 by growalot

[stoneam2006]

I didn't read whole thread but land in the fingerlakes needs some incentive to be opened many here didn't like the doe only season idea for the first 2 weeks...well that's bc not enough doe are taken and I hunt the stateland all thru up there and they know when season starts they head to private land where pressure is less. Need to open up some private land even if landowners cut a deal to just let doe taken maybe the last week of muzzle loader or something I understand owner pay the taxes but if you don't want the doe only season or other ideas to help cut down the population something needs to happen....areas where there isn't a population problem private doesn't need opened up bc it will solve nothing....just my .02

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[growalot]

Well I live in the biggest problem area ...other than 8H and have no issue taking doe with permits given at the correct times...Nov 1st isn't that time. I also take doe when they give me a chance...but they do not always do that. No need to rehash the "legal" shooting hours issue...I won't shoot when it's not legal...I don't care if it's 5 mins. past or before..won't happen. Now this site has shown me that most hunters  disregard this law. One more reason I won't ever open up my place.... picking and choosing what laws to follow...let me tell you if I were that type of person...there wouldn't be a single raccoon safe from me 24/7 365 days a yr. ...yet they are still the main visitors on all my cams... because that's not legal period.

As far as not wanting other ideas...I believe a dang good many land owners gave much better ideas...I have yet to see where the DEC has plans to implement any of them this year do you?

Edited July 25, 2016 by growalot

[Critter4321]

On 7/22/2016 at 8:31 AM, phade said:

Damage and nuisance permits should be provided only after ground is opened to hunting in-season, and offer the tax break incentive.

 

People would hate it, but that would open some doors likely.

I couldn't agree more with you and I have even posted that subject once. why give damage and nuisance permits to the land leases that only want to harvest mature bucks and wont shoot does or shoot very few of them. 

We as Farmers and yes that's what I do! are the ones stuck feeding them, I can say for a fact I will never go into a lease agreement with any hunting club that only wants to shoot certain deer that fit their desire as a trophy. you want to get onto farms go talk to the farmers tell them you are there to harvest the animals damaging their crops not the ones that look good on your trophy wall. them knuckle heads in Albany don't help us either with their every hunter deserves a trophy so we will make it a law of 3 points on one side or more. Wake up not everyone wins in every game some people never shoot a trophy solely because they enjoy the taste more then the dust collector

[growalot]

So when writing your lease why not put in........ they have to fill your nuisance permits in order to hold the lease. If they do not, the terms of the lease are null and void and they pay a penalty/loss of lease money before leaving...I would think a good lawyer could get the proper wording done up for you...

 

[Buckmaster7600]

Just a little side note, I just purchased a place with family, my cousin to be exact. He does not hunt. At lunch yesterday we were talking about having friends up for a pig roast and things of that nature. He mentioned that he would like to let two of his friends hunt.... I told him absolutely not. I said if you get a liscense and want to take them out with you that's one thing but not a chance in hell are they coming to hunt. I bought land to get away from other hunters not to invite friends.... Am I wrong that the only other person I want to hunt is my long time friend and hunting partner..... Honestly wouldn't even let my own brother hunt without me there. And maybe not even if I was there


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I don't know the whole agreement but to me it seems 1 sided that it's ok for you to let someone hunt the land but it's not ok for your cousin.


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[jjb4900]

4 hours ago, chefhunter86 said:

Just a little side note, I just purchased a place with family, my cousin to be exact. He does not hunt. At lunch yesterday we were talking about having friends up for a pig roast and things of that nature. He mentioned that he would like to let two of his friends hunt.... I told him absolutely not. I said if you get a liscense and want to take them out with you that's one thing but not a chance in hell are they coming to hunt. I bought land to get away from other hunters not to invite friends.... Am I wrong that the only other person I want to hunt is my long time friend and hunting partner..... Honestly wouldn't even let my own brother hunt without me there. And maybe not even if I was there


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what was his reaction? 

[Chef]

I don't know the whole agreement but to me it seems 1 sided that it's ok for you to let someone hunt the land but it's not ok for your cousin.


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Well I hunt and he doesn't..... If he wants to get a liscense and hunt WITH his friends by all means... But I'm not sharing the woods with them if he's not hunting


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[growalot]

You guys didn't have this conversation before buying?...Sorry lol.... that would be like getting married and not talking about who does or doesn't want kids ...before walking down the isle...

[Buckmaster7600]

Well I hunt and he doesn't..... If he wants to get a liscense and hunt WITH his friends by all means... But I'm not sharing the woods with them if he's not hunting


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It doesn't matter because I don't have a dog in the fight but I am failing to see that logic. If it's a 50/50 ownership he has just as much right to do what he wants that you do.


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[Chef]

It doesn't matter because I don't have a dog in the fight but I am failing to see that logic. If it's a 50/50 ownership he has just as much right to do what he wants that you do.


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If he does it he does it.... But if I explained how a I feel and he gets it


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[Doc]

19 hours ago, stoneam2006 said:

I didn't read whole thread but land in the fingerlakes needs some incentive to be opened many here didn't like the doe only season idea for the first 2 weeks...well that's bc not enough doe are taken and I hunt the stateland all thru up there and they know when season starts they head to private land where pressure is less. Need to open up some private land even if landowners cut a deal to just let doe taken maybe the last week of muzzle loader or something I understand owner pay the taxes but if you don't want the doe only season or other ideas to help cut down the population something needs to happen....areas where there isn't a population problem private doesn't need opened up bc it will solve nothing....just my .02

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As I understood it, the opposition to the 2-week doe only season in bow season wasn't because no one wanted to shoot does. It was because of the ridiculous notion that deer populations should be (or even could be) controlled only by bow hunters, alone. Perhaps if the DEC was really serious about taking does, a day or two of the regular season could have been made "doe only" and maybe then they would have gotten the result they were looking for without singling out archers only for the task of cutting doe populations. But either way, that doesn't change the situation with hunters being locked out of private lands and the result of strangling the growth and maintenance of the activity of hunting.