Rescinding antlerless in early bow in 8n

[dbHunterNY]

1 hour ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

Early season is not the time to try to take down numbers. A late December early Jan antler less firearms season would be the most effective time. And if Dec is really serious about it allow baiting for that season in the units that need the most control. A doe shot in Jan is really killing 2-3 deer where as one shot in sept or out is only killing 1.

This also should be very well accepted by all hunters because your not screwing up anyone's season.


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people lose interest and it's hard to tell young button bucks and otherwise "antlerless deer" from actual doe.  taking the latter is the only way to effect population in a real way.  NYS will never allow baiting for hunting I think.  extended early season antlerless only in September.  other option that doesn't effect harvest much is pushing late muzzleloader (antlerless) into late gun season and shortening that season.  there's a lull between November and late season.  some sit on a regular buck tag because they can't fill it with a doe to call it a season until late season.

[WNYBuckHunter]

1 hour ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

Early season is not the time to try to take down numbers. A late December early Jan antler less firearms season would be the most effective time. And if Dec is really serious about it allow baiting for that season in the units that need the most control. A doe shot in Jan is really killing 2-3 deer where as one shot in sept or out is only killing 1.

This also should be very well accepted by all hunters because your not screwing up anyone's season.


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Late Dec early Jan you can and will run into instances where bucks have dropped their antlers, and many hunters will shoot them by mistake. Early season you dont have that issue, its warmer out so more people might be willing to participate, and has been said, it doesnt matter when you kill a doe.

[WNYBuckHunter]

1 hour ago, stubby68 said:

wait a minute ! It is ok to take 2 weeks of gun hunting time and make it doe only but not ok to do the same thing with bow hunting? Why take the shortest season and do that. Bow season is much longer and hence more time to spare the weeks in. Mind you I would rather have all doe tags and couldn't care less about getting a buck. I hunt to fill my freezer and nothing more. I pay for the tags so I should be given plenty of opertunity to fill them. Taking 2 weeks from gun and makeing it doe only gives little time to fill my buck tag. Leaveing me with a paid for yet unfilled tag. 2 weeksfrom bow still leaves 6 weeks to fill tags. Funny how it is ok to short the gun hunters and not the bow.

                     Would you have a problem if when the gave bow hunters the extra 2 weeks from the 15 to the 1 they had said it would be doe only from the get go. Bow hunters have been given plenty of opertunitys to take more doe yet they refuse to. If bows are  so ineffactive for takeing deer like you say then why use them at all?

                     Everyone on here knows how I feel about bow hunters. I am also not the only one who has my feelings about them either. G-man pointed out the reasons why I and others have these feelings and he is spot on. Bow huntes feel october is there time to kill big bucks not hunt deer. That has been proven by the many statements of not hunting untill or unless they can kill a buck if they see it.  Then when they kill there buck they are done untill gun when they kill another buck then done again.

 

         Point is that with the right attitude bow hunters can very well help to keep the doe numbers down in some areas yet they refuse to. And now you say let the gun hunters do it I want my bucks. Wow

What part of most effective weapon do you not understand? My statement had nothing to do with pushing doe only off to gun season so that bow hunters can get first crack at a buck. I had exactly one good opportunity at a mature doe this past bow season, I missed. Im not saying that I didnt have others in range, but bow hunters have more to worry about than just in range. I know of very few bow hunters that dont shoot doe.

 

Oh, and I killed 5 does during gun season. I did my part.

[stoneam2006]

Early season is not the time to try to take down numbers. A late December early Jan antler less firearms season would be the most effective time. And if Dec is really serious about it allow baiting for that season in the units that need the most control. A doe shot in Jan is really killing 2-3 deer where as one shot in sept or out is only killing 1.

This also should be very well accepted by all hunters because your not screwing up anyone's season.


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I don't think this would help as even during late mz season hunter numbers are small bc of the weather....if you want to cut numbers you need to appeal to the most amt of hunters early season hunting when warmer weather is here is the answer...or full inclusion bc more people will hunt in 60 degrees than 10 and a foot of snow. It's about numbers....more hunters more killed

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[stoneam2006]

Let's just put all of gun season in oct early Nov then let bowhunters have at it....bet that wouldn't fly...

So according to bowhunters (I bowhunt)
No xbows
No telling me what I can shoot
No want of early mz season

So what's the answer just extend gun season??? I'm all in gives me mor3 chances to shoot that 6 pt alot of you want to see live another year


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[Buckmaster7600]

people lose interest and it's hard to tell young button bucks and otherwise "antlerless deer" from actual doe.  taking the latter is the only way to effect population in a real way.  NYS will never allow baiting for hunting I think.  extended early season antlerless only in September.  other option that doesn't effect harvest much is pushing late muzzleloader (antlerless) into late gun season and shortening that season.  there's a lull between November and late season.  some sit on a regular buck tag because they can't fill it with a doe to call it a season until late season.

What's the difference button buck have been being killed since antler less tags were started. The Bucks loosing horns that's not very common in the the first week of January.

The problem is NY is 20 years behind other states in deer management. There is a lot of speculations being thrown out by a lot of you guys but there are states whom have been doing these things effectively for years.


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[dbHunterNY]

9 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

 

 

What's the difference button buck have been being killed since antler less tags were started. The Bucks loosing horns that's not very common in the the first week of January.

The problem is NY is 20 years behind other states in deer management. There is a lot of speculations being thrown out by a lot of you guys but there are states whom have been doing these things effectively for years.


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taking button bucks will do nothing to lower the population for the following year, aside from it and only it being dead.  I've seen small spikes get hammered.  that late in the season it's crunch time to fill the freezer and mistakes happen.  sometimes it's hard to even get to your hunting spots, let alone bare the weather for many people.

i don't mean to argue.  the difference though is exactly the opposite of what you said.  we're NY and not other states.  some of us don't spew speculations, although it might seem like it.  if I say on here I think DEC will do this, it's because I've talked to them about it. 

That said pushing late muzzleloader into gun season is my thoughts.  most gun hunters have filled or given up a bit by then.  harvest numbers are front heavy with gun season and taper off in a hurry.  Myself and others that hunt with a bow do take doe during bow season but by far any quota for management or freezer filling purposes is done with a gun.  there's been years where I filled the freezer all during muzzleloader but dragged doe out through snowdrifts up to my ass and the following year never took the muzzleloader out of the safe so I didn't go through that again.  opportunity whatever way you look at it typically goes down as the season carries on after open day of regular season.  if DEC wanted to be not so timid about things they could try making regular buck tag and either sex just for those units during regular season.  not sure if they'd feel the take could be too much and not conservative enough.  you could say there wouldn't be that much difference given DMPs are so readily available and easily filled in those units compared to others.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

3 hours ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

8H is urban? Really?

LOL...Not in the 8H of my hunting world!

[SteveB]

4 hours ago, dbHunterNY said:

A doe shot in Jan is really killing 2-3 deer where as one shot in sept or out is only killing 1.

The impact is the same for herd numbers the following year whether you kill the doe before or after she gets pregnant. 

[Buckmaster7600]

The impact is the same for herd numbers the following year whether you kill the doe before or after she gets pregnant. 

I am far from a scientist or even remotely educated in the science behind it I'm simply going off an article I read a while back, as I posted earlier their reasoning behind it being more successful is because a buck has "wasted" his time on her when if she is dead before the rut the buck will be breeding a different doe.


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[DirtTime]

Why can't everyone just agree to disagree?

Bow hunters want it all and they seem to get it most times, I mean no offense, as I love bow hunting. You wanted a longer season, you got it, and still complain, now, it's too long. You wanted the antler restriction revoked and it was. WTF? There's no making you happy! Seriously, there isn't.

I enjoy deer hunting. Be it archery, slugs, or a rifle. I have 4 tags for this season. I will be happy to fill even one of them. Much less 4.

All this dissension does is leave a huge gash in a hunting community that needs to start standing together.

If you don't want to shoot does, then don't. But, don't blame it on DEC because they gave you a way to protest and feel validated. You paid for your tags, shoot what you want to shoot. Just stop thinking everyone has to agree with you.

[dbHunterNY]

I am far from a scientist or even remotely educated in the science behind it I'm simply going off an article I read a while back, as I posted earlier their reasoning behind it being more successful is because a buck has "wasted" his time on her when if she is dead before the rut the buck will be breeding a different doe.


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Our population isn't so far out of wack that some buck wouldn't get to that second doe even if she doesn't get bred when she first is ready. Better to take the doe early when opportunity presents itself. Some of us on here having great hunting ground when it comes to opportunity. we might take for granted and hold off on taking a doe. Adult doe taken early or late in the season effects things the same for all practical purposes.

I do preach that wasted effort but in the context as not wanted. It only adds stress to bucks and draws out breeding/phases of the rut. Doe get bred in 2nd time they're ready that year and fawns get short changed starting out in life.

Adult doe (1.5+ yrs old) are your key to population.

[DirtTime]

Hows this for an idea. During the "Regular Season" you can use a compound, trad bow, crossbow, ML, rifle and shotgun. Maybe the gun hunters should start protesting that seeing there's and early and late bow and ML season, that you can't use a a bow or ML in the "gun" season.

[stubby68]

6 hours ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

What part of most effective weapon do you not understand? My statement had nothing to do with pushing doe only off to gun season so that bow hunters can get first crack at a buck. I had exactly one good opportunity at a mature doe this past bow season, I missed. Im not saying that I didnt have others in range, but bow hunters have more to worry about than just in range. I know of very few bow hunters that dont shoot doe.

 

Oh, and I killed 5 does during gun season. I did my part.

                   I keep reading that a bow is not an effective weapon to be taking does with. If it is not effective for taking does what makes it effective for taking bucks. If it can kill one why can it not kill the other.

                      I also hear bow hunters saying we need a shorter gun season and longer bow season like other states do. I hear them saying that other states have a better deer heard because of shorter gun season and longer bow. If less gun and more bow mmakes a better heard that would mean that in those states a bow is effective enough to controll deer populations. Right? what am I missing? Why can a bow work well for population in control there and not in NY?

           didn't you say everytime you hunt an area you cut your chances of getting a mature buck? And didn't you say make 2 weeks of gun season antlerless ? That says you are worried that being out there doe hunting will hurt your chances of getting a big buck first and to make the gun huntersdo the doe hunting.

           Bow hunters are accused of being trophy hunters alot. The dec gave them an opertunity to pro that statement false. They responded with if I can't shoot a buck I will not hunt. Kind of makez that statement correct and says that bow hunters want the bucks for bow season and the doe left for gun.

                      

[Larry]

In the wmu’s that had the doe only for part of the season last year. It would not matter where you put the doe only or what weapon was used you won’t increase the doe harvest that much. IT’S AN ACESS PROBLEM PLANE AND SIMPLE YOU CAN’T KILL THEM IF YOU CAN’T GET TO THEM. THAT’S WHAT THE PROBLEM IS !!

[growalot]

Around and around we go...

1. None  of you mentioned a. Big factor...Nov. Dec. Holidays. Like it or not they do  take a lot of us away...family obligations...some more than others

2. A good many bow hunters  are gun hunters....like it or not we get tired, thus hunt less during gun.

3. They just ARE NOT GIVING DOE TAGS OUT WHEN WE ARE MORE LIKELY TO USE THEM. Many split tags between units...give us those 2 "extra" tags in the over populated areas Oct  1st. You want dead doe do that ,or give me a dang Good reason why you won't, as you stand by a 10+year policy of handing them out every Nov 1st  In these units.

4. Include cross bows...at the very least for seniors during bow...or the first two weeks of bow season...What does the last 2 weeks do for doe kills? Little or nothing...for that is prime buck hunting and everyone knows it. Get all nasty about bow hunters. But it's the gun hunters picking up cross bows for that last two weeks..and they aren't targeting doe. If you were to say no buck the first two weeks of bow but cross bows are allowed.I guarantee there would a hell of a lot less cross bows out in the woods compared to the last two weeks....So let's not point fingers at each other..point them at Albany.

[Rockspek]

Wow!  

I started this thread because I just wanted to make sure that if I had a chance at a buck during early bow I could shoot one in 8n.  I'll be out there either way because I love sitting in the woods.

[growalot]

Touchy subject.....over the years do actually picture in my mind...A group of bored sadistic bureaucrats in the DEC sitting around a table playing cards ...talking and joking about what they can do that particular year to turn hunters on each other.

[WNYBuckHunter]

16 hours ago, stoneam2006 said:

Let's just put all of gun season in oct early Nov then let bowhunters have at it....bet that wouldn't fly...

So according to bowhunters (I bowhunt)
No xbows
No telling me what I can shoot
No want of early mz season

So what's the answer just extend gun season??? I'm all in gives me mor3 chances to shoot that 6 pt alot of you want to see live another year


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As someone that hunts ALL seasons, Id like to see the following:

 

-Full crossbow inclusion

-Early antlerless ML season in September with a 2 week break before bow starts (only for WMUs with overpopulation problems)

-Mandatory tag reporting of all tags, used or unused

-1 buck rule

-Unlimited doe tags in the WMUs with overpopulation issues to the hunters that use them (to get more than the initial 2 DMPs, you would provide some type of proof that you filled them before they give you more tags)

[WNYBuckHunter]

10 hours ago, ....rob said:

Why can't everyone just agree to disagree?

Bow hunters want it all and they seem to get it most times, I mean no offense, as I love bow hunting. You wanted a longer season, you got it, and still complain, now, it's too long. You wanted the antler restriction revoked and it was. WTF? There's no making you happy! Seriously, there isn't.

I enjoy deer hunting. Be it archery, slugs, or a rifle. I have 4 tags for this season. I will be happy to fill even one of them. Much less 4.

All this dissension does is leave a huge gash in a hunting community that needs to start standing together.

If you don't want to shoot does, then don't. But, don't blame it on DEC because they gave you a way to protest and feel validated. You paid for your tags, shoot what you want to shoot. Just stop thinking everyone has to agree with you.

You call it dissension, I call it discussion, and discussion is good.

[WNYBuckHunter]

10 hours ago, ....rob said:

Hows this for an idea. During the "Regular Season" you can use a compound, trad bow, crossbow, ML, rifle and shotgun. Maybe the gun hunters should start protesting that seeing there's and early and late bow and ML season, that you can't use a a bow or ML in the "gun" season.

You can already do that

[moog5050]

31 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

As someone that hunts ALL seasons, Id like to see the following:

 

-Full crossbow inclusion

-Early antlerless ML season in September with a 2 week break before bow starts (only for WMUs with overpopulation problems)

-Mandatory tag reporting of all tags, used or unused

-1 buck rule

-Unlimited doe tags in the WMUs with overpopulation issues to the hunters that use them (to get more than the initial 2 DMPs, you would provide some type of proof that you filled them before they give you more tags)

As soon as I am elected Governor, I am appointing you as Commissioner of the DEC John!  Don't quit your current job just yet though.

[WNYBuckHunter]

9 hours ago, stubby68 said:

                   I keep reading that a bow is not an effective weapon to be taking does with. If it is not effective for taking does what makes it effective for taking bucks. If it can kill one why can it not kill the other.

                      I also hear bow hunters saying we need a shorter gun season and longer bow season like other states do. I hear them saying that other states have a better deer heard because of shorter gun season and longer bow. If less gun and more bow mmakes a better heard that would mean that in those states a bow is effective enough to controll deer populations. Right? what am I missing? Why can a bow work well for population in control there and not in NY?

           didn't you say everytime you hunt an area you cut your chances of getting a mature buck? And didn't you say make 2 weeks of gun season antlerless ? That says you are worried that being out there doe hunting will hurt your chances of getting a big buck first and to make the gun huntersdo the doe hunting.

           Bow hunters are accused of being trophy hunters alot. The dec gave them an opertunity to pro that statement false. They responded with if I can't shoot a buck I will not hunt. Kind of makez that statement correct and says that bow hunters want the bucks for bow season and the doe left for gun.

                      

I never said it wasnt effective, I said its not the MOST effective. Thats the point you are missing out on. Im not saying cut gun season down, Im saying that if any weapon's primary season should be used specifically to knock down the doe numbers in an area, that it should be the MOST effective one, not the least effective one. The simple fact is, guns are far more effective at killing numbers of deer than bows are. The timing of when you kill does is not important when it comes to population control, so who cares when I shoot my does.

Heres the other fact you are missing, the vast majority of bow hunters gun hunt as well. I know of very few that stick to bow only and only hunt for bucks.

 

Id have to say that I know more gun only hunters that only hunt for bucks than bow only hunters that hunt only for bucks. Your "Trophy Hunter" stigma that you attach to bow hunters is kind of silly really.

[stoneam2006]

As someone that hunts ALL seasons, Id like to see the following:

 

-Full crossbow inclusion

-Early antlerless ML season in September with a 2 week break before bow starts (only for WMUs with overpopulation problems)

-Mandatory tag reporting of all tags, used or unused

-1 buck rule

-Unlimited doe tags in the WMUs with overpopulation issues to the hunters that use them (to get more than the initial 2 DMPs, you would provide some type of proof that you filled them before they give you more tags)

Im in a pretty logical anwser here

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[Culvercreek hunt club]

6 hours ago, growalot said:

3. They just ARE NOT GIVING DOE TAGS OUT WHEN WE ARE MORE LIKELY TO USE THEM. Many split tags between units...give us those 2 "extra" tags in the over populated areas Oct  1st. You want dead doe do that ,or give me a dang Good reason why you won't, as you stand by a 10+year policy of handing them out every Nov 1st  In these units.

 

I've posed this question and the response was their software system is not currently capable of doing that. If that is the case they should go to a had issued tag out of the region 8 office.  (or other appropriate region office). Bring a filled tag in and get another. I wouldn't even care if they charged a nominal fee for each time. 

Edited August 9, 2016 by Culvercreek hunt club