Lunatic Alert - Cougars Coming?

[LetEmGrow]

But it's real.  I don't believe they would ever stay around here if they did it.

A group of scientists is calling for re-introducing cougars into states like New York and New Jersey in an attempt to lower the exploding whitetail deer population. They say the 220-pound predators are a natural solution to a problem that causes 1.2 milllion car accidents per year, including 200 fatalities. 

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2016/08/11/got-deer-cougars-could-help-control-herds-study-says.html

[First-light]

This is pretty funny but the DEC said no way.

[Doc]

Yup!..... There goes our worshipped scientists again with another hair-brained scheme. Isn't it amazing how these lunatics (supposedly some of the best minds that our tax-funded study money can be spent on) seem to keep coming up with these brilliant ideas. By the way, where is the best cougar habitat located? my guess would be the central Adirondacks where the deer population is the thinnest.

[BizCT]

I wish


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[Uncle Nicky]

4 minutes ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

I wish


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Really? How do you think this will play out in a somewhat crowded state like NY?

[Merlot]

keep the kids inside or install a mote around every home.

[growalot]

Listen ,they are already migrating this way. That IS a scientific fact...Virginia just finally admitted there is a breeding population there and many states west of them have now admitted it after years of denying sightings. All these guys are doing is trying to get ahead of the game....

[phade]

Ahead of the game? By 100 years? Let's get real.

A self sustaining population hasn't been in NY since the late 1800s. While repopulation may occur, it's not going to happen overnight. Maybe it is something my kid has to deal with as an adult, but we have more important things to tackle in our lifetime.

 

[grampy]

In my area, the coyotes are doing just fine keeping the deer population down. Bring in a large cat and soon there will be no deer and the cats will be eating the yotes!

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Look on Letchworth Facebook page and they are over there throwing pics and posts around about sightings. I was told years ago by  retired Trooper that there were some released in Ny years ago but strange how we never get that one good pic by someone in this day of Trail Cams and Cell phones.

[growalot]

Hey all I know is I have read and watched shows on this...they have a clear picture of them migrating this way...Why the angst about it, I do not understand?...Yes ahead of the game because this isn't evolution Phade. it's MIGRATION. There is a huge time line difference. So yes this is real...what I do not understand...other than causing some kind of fear in public minds, them denying it....It's almost like they think..... We won't confirm this until we can show they have been living here with out incident for some time..So you have nothing to fear? Obvious speculation but as good as any. We aren't talking a turkey type breeding population ..That would never occur,but a bobcat or moose type of population I have no doubt.

[BizCT]

1 hour ago, Uncle Nicky said:

Really? How do you think this will play out in a somewhat crowded state like NY?
 

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2016/08/11/got-deer-cougars-could-help-control-herds-study-says.html

Who knows. Probably like Cali where they sleep under people's cars. Would be cool to hunt lions here in NY!


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[phade]

2 hours ago, growalot said:

Hey all I know is I have read and watched shows on this...they have a clear picture of them migrating this way...Why the angst about it, I do not understand?...Yes ahead of the game because this isn't evolution Phade. it's MIGRATION. There is a huge time line difference. So yes this is real...what I do not understand...other than causing some kind of fear in public minds, them denying it....It's almost like they think..... We won't confirm this until we can show they have been living here with out incident for some time..So you have nothing to fear? Obvious speculation but as good as any. We aren't talking a turkey type breeding population ..That would never occur,but a bobcat or moose type of population I have no doubt.

Extirpation is also not evolution.... we are many moons away from a self-sustaining population here. Let's not lose sight of that in this nonsense.

[growalot]

Evolution has more than 1 meaning...Thus the evolving process of their return through migration. The fact that they were ever here to have an extirpation occur. Proves they have the ability to return and grow....That expatiation was man made not naturally occurring.

Quote

1. 1 :  one of a set of prescribed movements

2. 2 a :  a process of change in a certain direction :  unfolding b :  the action or an instance of forming and giving something off :  emission c (1) :  a process of continuous change from a lower, simpler, or worse to a higher, more complex, or better state :  growth (2) :  a process of gradual and relatively peaceful social, political, and economic advance d :  something evolved

3. 3 :  the process of working out or developing

4. 4 a :  the historical development of a biological group (as a race or species) :  phylogeny b :  a theory that the various types of animals and plants have their origin in other preexisting types and that the distinguishable differences are due to modifications in successive generations; also :  the process described by this theory

5. 5 :  the extraction of a mathematical root

6. 6 :  a process in which the whole universe is a progression of interrelated phenomena

 

Edited August 11, 2016 by growalot

[slickrockpack]

3 hours ago, grampy said:

In my area, the coyotes are doing just fine keeping the deer population down. Bring in a large cat and soon there will be no deer and the cats will be eating the yotes!

yepper, they do that. even a wolf  will often move off a carcass when a big tom comes in.  The biggest negative, really the only negative to having lots of lions around is you lose power more often, but you have lots of trees back east so maybe that won't be an issue?

here they climb the power poles to sleep on the crosstrees and sometimes hang deer up on them, which almost always knocks out the electricity, this is the first house I've ever lived in that has electricity and when its down its a real pain in the butt.

I will try adding  links to some newspaper articles in nearby Cody, there was a lion living behind pizza hut for a bit til it scared one guy in the neighborhood who made a fuss.

http://www.codyenterprise.com/news/local/article_718bc2a0-e227-11e4-a129-d31757064111.html

http://www.codyenterprise.com/news/local/article_196d9e6c-79aa-11e4-9cba-c3060e3dcb79.html

until the staff here deletes some photos for me I'm about out of room to share many lion photos, I think I have a couple thousand, mostly bayed up or treed.

Thought you may find the info in this interesting. maybe not.

http://www.codyenterprise.com/news/local/article_df4841ca-0393-11e3-84a8-001a4bcf887a.html

 

Edited August 11, 2016 by slickrockpack

[phade]

24 minutes ago, growalot said:

Evolution has more than 1 meaning...Thus the evolving process of their return through migration. The fact that they were ever here to have an extirpation occur. Proves they have the ability to return and grow....That expatiation was man made not naturally occurring.

 

Grow - again, you are not seeing the forest for the trees.

You are making a mountain lion out of a mole hill....

[growalot]

I think not, I am just stating the facts at hand. The reality of it is they have been headed this way for a while now...They have now established in states west of us, that also said they had none, until they did. Just as coy-wolves moved down from Canada, the mnt lion is moving east and at a fair pace. See I can look at the facts without injecting wild accusations or demeaning conjecture.

Edited August 11, 2016 by growalot

[Trial153]

All I know is this. If there is a more lunatic fringe of conspiracy nuts then hunters, I haven't seen them yet.

[growalot]

Where do you see a conspiracy in anything I said?...Do you understand the meaning of conspiracy?...Did I say they were here yet? I already posted the article from the Virginia attack earlier this summer....Now you could do some reading and searching about what is happening in states west of us ,as I have, but See you might learn something then. God knows we don't want that!

[Padre86]

7 hours ago, growalot said:

Listen ,they are already migrating this way. That IS a scientific fact...Virginia just finally admitted there is a breeding population there and many states west of them have now admitted it after years of denying sightings. All these guys are doing is trying to get ahead of the game....

It's scientific fact that this a breeding population of Cougars in Virginia?  What is your source for that?  If you want scientific fact, go read about the USFWS de-listing eastern cougar from the "endangered" list due to extinction: Eastern Cougar Extinct.  There may be transients from the west moving through parts of the east, but that's not the same as an established, breeding population.

 

And these so-called "Sightings" are a dime-a-dozen.  Scat samples, kill sites, tracks are left by all animals, even cougars.  If there were a resident population of eastern cougars, anywhere outside of Florida, there would be scientific evidence to support that.  Heck even when the Florida panther was down to only several dozen individuals back in the 70's and 80's, people were still hitting them with cars.  Yet, for all these "sightings" there hasn't been one road-kill cougar, nor any tracks or DNA evidence to suggest that there is an established population in the East. 

 

I think some people are letting their imagination get the better of them, just like some do with big-foot.

 

1 hour ago, growalot said:

I think not, I am just stating the facts at hand. The reality of it is they have been headed this way for a while now...They have now established in states west of us, that also said they had none, until they did. Just as coy-wolves moved down from Canada, the mnt lion is moving east and at a fair pace. See I can look at the facts without injecting wild accusations or demeaning conjecture.

Transient cougars, usually young adult males, have been found in some eastern states.  But it's going to take a bit more time for breeding populations to re-colonize the east, and such populations will likely only re-occupy remote areas of the Northeast, where they'll have the required habitat to accommodate their range.

[Grizz1219]

If they do that and kill just 1 person I would sue them and the state.....

[Trial153]

Padre86 thanks for the post you saved me the trouble

[phade]

X2 on that. Thanks Padre.

[DirtTime]

X-3 ^

[growalot]

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/local/missouri-cougar-list-keeps-getting-longer/article_40e3d0d1-4b31-5dae-930d-8f40a39954eb.html

http://outdoorchannel.com/article.aspx?id=13118

http://www.whsv.com/content/news/Mountain-lion-attack-reported-near-Humpback-Rock-385246261.html

Quote

Cantrell says that Fish and Wildlife does come across the occasional cougar that has escaped from captivity, either from a zoo or the home of a negligent pet owner, but that’s not reason enough for people to think the puma population is back.

“I think the number of dispersing cats from these other populations could eventually, if left alone, develop a population,” Cantrell says. “That’s just a matter of time. Because of the fragmentation of the Southeast, I feel that the Blue Ridge is the only place where a mountain lion population could really develop.”

Quote

WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT COUGARS IN THE APPALACHIANS

Cougars (Puma concolor) are also known as mountain lions, pumas, panthers, painters, and catamounts. They lived throughout the East when European settlers arrived. Many Appalachian stories tell of panthers following people, dropping on people from tree limbs, covering a sleeping person with leaves, and screaming like a woman being murdered.

By 1950, intensive hunting and logging had apparently exterminated cougars. However, people in remote parts of the Appalachians continued to occasionally report them. Reports increased over time and by the 1990s, hard evidence began to accumulate.

In 1994, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service analyzed a dropping found in Vermont as having cougar hair, presumably ingested during self-grooming.¹ A home video taped in 1992 in western Maryland showed a cougar walking through the woods.² Virginia Game Department personnel reported cougar sightings in southwest Virginia in 1995.³ A plaster cast of a track in West Virginia in 1998 was confirmed as cougar by a wildlife expert in California.⁴ Many credible sightings have also been made, but without supporting field evidence.

Some biologists and mountain people believe that a few native eastern cougars may have survived.⁵ In addition, there is evidence that cougars obtained elsewhere as pets have escaped or been released.⁶ State and federal wildlife authorities now agree that at least some cougars are living wild in the Appalachians, although the origin of these animals is uncertain.⁷

¹1994, Letter from Bonnie C. Yates of Natl. Fish& Wildlife Forensics Lab., Ashland OR 97520.
²1994, Video from Leslie Johnston, Wildlife Div., MD Dept. of Natural Resources, Oakland, MD 21550
³1997, Report on Min. Lion Sightings by John Houben, Wildlife Biol., USDA Blacksburg, VA 24060
⁴1998, Dr. Lee Fitzhugh, Ext. Wildlife Spec., Univ. of CA, Davis, CA 95616-4154.
⁵1981, Robert Downing, "Current Status of the Cougar in the Southern Appalachians," in Proceedings of Nongame & End Wildlife Symposium, Athens, GA.
⁶1995, Chris Bolgiano, Mountain Lion: An Unnatural History of Pumas & People, Stackpole Books
⁷1998, Paul Nickerson, End. Species Program, U.S. Fish & Wildlife Serv., NE Region, Hadley, MA 01035

 

 

 

Edited August 11, 2016 by growalot