Say what you will about NYS...

[Core]

1 hour ago, dbHunterNY said:

I was at local fair and had at least a dozen people tell me they'd love to pass certain bucks but they can't due to the neighbors.  said the bucks cross the border and then they hear it get shot.  so the next one that walks by gets taken regardless of what they'd prefer to do.  

Not surprised they would say this, there is some validity to the thought process!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

[BizCT]

Bucks I don't care every year we see pics of some mighty fine buck and big doe ....The cams may be seeing more than the recover pics show...but that just means they are getting older or hit by vehicles. All the comparison we see to other states is just ...foolish We should all be happy with what NYS has and proud that in most instances...we are seeing this due to volunteer restraint

I love NY. But hunting wise, Not enough big game animals. We have 2 (deer and bear) whereas other states have much more probably close to 10 in some states. Western states offer much more hunting variety, but I wouldn't want to live there full time.


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[Jaeger]

I agree. (above quote didn't copy over, edit) I wrote a Regional Report section for another magazine for a few years and I've got to tell you guys that NY's hunting regulations and methods of dividing up our wildlife management units and season dates are some of, if not completely the, simplest in the north east.

I had to review the seasons, dates, locations and changes for every state in the north east.  If you think our DEC does thing randomly or is too complex, get on line and look at Maine or NH.

Granted, we see things on the ground that we do not think the DEC sees.  But we only see our little areas.  I struggle constantly with how wmu 4zero is laid out but it it what it is.

Our season dates are split between 2 basic areas, norther zone and southern zone, with some specifics for city areas and LI.  Compare that to the other north east states.  It couldn't get simpler.

Even this years big explaination that both the bow/muzzleloader tags, either sex and antlerless, could be used in either season or both in the same season wowed me.  That has been the rule for over a decade, if you read the main and exceptions columns in the regs booklet its pretty clearly spelled out.  Why they had to explain it again is beyond me.

 

To sum up, as a former regulations/seasons reporter for the entire north east, we have the simplest system, the easiest to understand dates and some of the longest seasons (deer Oct1- almost Christmas) of any state up here.

 

Look at the rest of the country as well, NY is great for hunting and fishing.

Edited August 30, 2016 by Jaeger
missing quote

[wooly]

1 hour ago, growalot said:

You have the winter pics to back that up...just a reminder to some

Here's a few that never found their way into a hunters freezer Growie.

Too small.... MAN only shoot BIG BUCKS for good herd management,lol

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dbHunterNY]

44 minutes ago, growalot said:

I find that statement sad,no offense intended, I think any hunt where the hunters has seen deer and gotten excited and taken a deer THEY think to be great is the best hunting imaginable. Now I'm not going to apologize for this. But I really do not give a rats back side what the guy next door shoots..though I have passed bucks and yes found them dead on my land after the neighbor shot ,and thought it was a miss...that is deflating. But I Am not going to feel bad or give two hoots if the neighbor does the same and I kill his pass...I LOVE seeing big buck...I do not have to shoot one. I shoot what I feel at the moment ,for what ever reason, is to be MY best experience for the season. That is how it should be .

Now Granted I live in one of the best units for bucks  and deer in general..I mean 70 deer in one 18 acre bean field ...when I know for a fact there were dozens of deer  not seen in a 1/2 mile radius Not everyone can be in the better areas..Hell, someone sell me land where NYbowhunter lives...and he's not that far away! The point is make the best of what you have and that starts in your own head....

no offense taken...  we can subjectively come to a conclusion that the hunting is better, worse, or the same.  when my dad was much younger they had real reason to get excited just to see a track. there were a lot of compounded issues in the area back then including poaching that didn't give much of anything to see or shoot.  now it's much better.  hind sight is always 20/20 so I don't completely know what the hunting will be like in the future where I am, but I'm thinking as good or better based on what I'm seeing.

you took it in a completely different context that nobody in their right mind should argue with. Not coming up with some very specific and/or twisted exception, I whole heartedly agree. if a hunter sees deer, gets enjoyment from the hunt, and takes a deer they're happy with then it's a mission accomplished.  another point you touched on is hunt with you and those close to you in mind.  not just for that day but with future hunting in mind.

not talking about antlers, quantity, or anything specific.  in the simplest form, even outside of hunting, I meant what I said in wanting better for my kids and future grandkids.  under that context I'd find it hard for you as a grandmother to disagree and most definitely not find "sad".
 

[dbHunterNY]

42 minutes ago, Core said:

Not surprised they would say this, there is some validity to the thought process!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

there is, in that it does happen that you pass deer that your neighbor chooses to legally or illegally take.  there is no validity in placing blame on your neighbor for your trigger pull based on assumptions.  just because they saw it walk in a direction out of sight and then heard a bang in that general direction, doesn't always mean that deer is dead.  fine to hypothesize, but if you can't or won't make it a point to simply go say hi to your neighbor and be able to ask how they did hunting, then you've got bigger issues to deal with.

[DirtTime]

1 hour ago, wooly said:

Nothing wrong with killing fawns and yearlings IMO. It's probably more beneficial to the rest of the herd to take out the weakest link  that is most vulnerable to disease, predation, and starvation. A good number of those fawns and yearlings may not make it to see their second birthday anyhow, while the next older class bucks have already proven they know how to make it through a season or two.

 

Not really beneficial to take out a proven survivor, only to let the weaklings that will be the first to drop dead over browse a property before they die anyhow. That just takes away from the rest of the remaining healthy herd and makes it harder on them as they head into the most stressing winter months.

 

So even though I personally prefer to kill a nice buck of at least 2 1/2 year old or better at this point of my hunting, there was a time when I would kill the first deer I saw no matter how small it was. They don't make for the most jaw dropping field photos, but I've got an album full of them anyhow and have no issue with guys killing fawns and yearlings. It does more for the overall health of thedeer herd opposed to the guy who eats his tags year after year waiting on a mega-buck.

 

I see that point. I simply meant that for all practical purposes, shoot the deer you want to shoot, but we shouldn't bag on others for having a different point of view. As long as it's legal hunt your way.

 

I also agree that NYS could do more on the public land aspect to help improve hunting.

[dbHunterNY]

44 minutes ago, wooly said:

Here's a few that never found their way into a hunters freezer Growie.

Too small.... MAN only shoot BIG BUCKS for good herd management,lol

how dare you shoot anything without antlers?!  ....that's the mother that'll give us next years buck! 

 ....you may have already heard that one. lol

[GreeneHunter]

Born and raised here and I'm staying !

[chrisw]

My biggest pet peeve on this topic are the people who routinely complain about not getting/seeing older bucks (2.5+) and yet every fall they fill their tag with a 1.5yr old buck because (if I don't the neighbor will), that is an excuse for poor self restraint. If you want a 2.5+yr old buck on public land or heavily hunted land then you have to realize ahead of time that you'll go years without shooting bucks. Simple as that. The only way you can ensure bucks get older is if YOU don't kill them. I let countless year old bucks go every fall in state land and most of them probably don't make the gun season but that's beyond my control and I don't blame the guys who are happy with a 4 pt, that's fine, im not happy with that so I'll wait. As long as your neighbors are legally taking the deer they have a right to shoot whatever they want. It's not always easy to swallow but it'll make that day when you push an arrow through a good buck that much sweeter. I've only killed 3 bucks in the last 7 seasons, all public land, all bow kills, I wouldn't trade them for anything. Be happy with what you shoot for your own reasons, don't make excuses. NY can/is a great place to hunt.

[NYBowhunter]

3 hours ago, growalot said:

I find that statement sad,no offense intended, I think any hunt where the hunters has seen deer and gotten excited and taken a deer THEY think to be great is the best hunting imaginable. Now I'm not going to apologize for this. But I really do not give a rats back side what the guy next door shoots..though I have passed bucks and yes found them dead on my land after the neighbor shot ,and thought it was a miss...that is deflating. But I Am not going to feel bad or give two hoots if the neighbor does the same and I kill his pass...I LOVE seeing big buck...I do not have to shoot one. I shoot what I feel at the moment ,for what ever reason, is to be MY best experience for the season. That is how it should be .

Now Granted I live in one of the best units for bucks  and deer in general..I mean 70 deer in one 18 acre bean field ...when I know for a fact there were dozens of deer  not seen in a 1/2 mile radius Not everyone can be in the better areas..Hell, someone sell me land where NYbowhunter lives...and he's not that far away! The point is make the best of what you have and that starts in your own head....

I have to agree grow. Its what each person finds enjoyable/memorable that makes the hunt and not the size of a rack. I would be lying if i said it didnt like to shoot mature bucks but thats not my primary goal. My goal is to set memories and to have fun doing it with my loved ones. Sharing my passion with older parents  , 4 young children and other family members i place no restriction on them on what they shoot or may shoot as they get older. I pass up many does and young bucks each year  and at times i may also kill  a decent buck but i have also killed younger bucks and does and make no excuse for it.  It takes alot of dedication, work and for me fun to make my property the best it could ever be by improving on something each year even if its small. But what i do is not for everyone however it does contribute to make my hunts more enjoyable. Heck my goal this year is to not even hunt opening day with rifle but to sit next to my nephew for his first ever hunt and God willing be part of him harvesting his first ever deer, now that would be awesome and what hunting should be about.

So Grow why is it you want to be a neighbor of mine?

 

[growalot]

hahaha...forgot the W, but...after the above post ,I wouldn't mind being your neighbor too!!

[NFA-ADK]

With all the horrible warm weather last year driving most activity at night and a mild winter, I predict this year we will have some real brutes taken.  IF the weather cooperates!   One thing is for sure if you try to hunt big bucks in NY it can be very boring at times!  Personally I really enjoy our woods in general.  Watching deer has become one of my favorite things to do while hunting and really gives you a better understanding of how they work.

I don't worry about the guy who shoots the first buck he sees when hunting private property.  That means he will not shoot the big one!  Unless he has multiple tags like some like to do here and see no reason why it is illegal.  I could literally get 10 buck  tags if I hunted that way, I guess I would not care about shooting a spike because I would still have all my tags to shoot any other animal I want to poach.  Sorry, going out into left field here.  

[Buckmaster7600]

your choice on passing bucks in my opinion reflects where you hunt......private land pass up small bucks......state property is another issue......the state property I hunt is crazy on opening weekend......sounds like a war zone......no deer is safe.....hard to wait for a good buck when in reality it wont happen because nothing makes it past 2 1/2 years old......I did shoot a real nice buck there 2 years ago but he was a 2 1/2 year old deer......I have seen some flocks come out of there but don't believe that has been that deers home, to where I believe those deer were pushed in 

A buck that you don't shoot has a 100% better chance of living than the 1 you do. Rationalizing what you do based on others decision is a cop out. There are many people in this state that shoot very nice bucks on state land and most of the time it's not the first buck they see on opening day.


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[DirtTime]

5 hours ago, upstatehunter said:

your choice on passing bucks in my opinion reflects where you hunt......private land pass up small bucks......state property is another issue......the state property I hunt is crazy on opening weekend......sounds like a war zone......no deer is safe.....hard to wait for a good buck when in reality it wont happen because nothing makes it past 2 1/2 years old......I did shoot a real nice buck there 2 years ago but he was a 2 1/2 year old deer......I have seen some flocks come out of there but don't believe that has been that deers home, to where I believe those deer were pushed in 

Just remember. Its a herd of deer.

Some state land is too insane for me to even bother with opening day gun. Most of those are close to cities ( 20 minutes or so ) and get a lot more pressure. Yet some of it, if you leave the confines of rurality behind you could sit all day, know there were other hunters in the woods, and not hear a shot or see them.

State land that gets hit hard does suffer a little from too many hunters IMO.

 

[upstatehunter]

5 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

 

 

A buck that you don't shoot has a 100% better chance of living than the 1 you do. Rationalizing what you do based on others decision is a cop out. There are many people in this state that shoot very nice bucks on state land and most of the time it's not the first buck they see on opening day.


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Far cry from a cop out.......when all weekend long you see button bucks, spikes and four pointers going by you tell me how that grows big bucks on that state property.....I camp there all weekend....there are state properties around that i don't believe are hunted by a single person.....the state property I hunt in the south is what some might call unsafe due to the amount of people.......this land is hunted hard.....we have around 10 guys each year that go in opening weekend.....I would guess there is atleast 300 people on this property opening weekend........not good management 

[Trial153]

Personally I think it's ridiculous to celibate the status quo ( mediocre on at best) and disregard the potential that is possible in a large portion of NY state. We are talking about simple changes to our management NY could improve its herd dynamics as well as its deer hunting.

[nybuckboy]

12 hours ago, Core said:

NY has a lot going for it. My main complaint is the politicians. Too left leaning thanks to NYC.

 

As for bucks hopefully one I can can own land and have the opportunity to pass on them! I was even looking for land yesterday. Not a ton of it for sale in western ny compared to a little more central; two hours east, past syracuse, and nice hunting land looks about $1k/acre, or maybe $500/acre.

Look for someone selling swamp land... nothing better for deer and cheaper than ag land.

[chrisw]

Far cry from a cop out.......when all weekend long you see button bucks, spikes and four pointers going by you tell me how that grows big bucks on that state property.....I camp there all weekend....there are state properties around that i don't believe are hunted by a single person.....the state property I hunt in the south is what some might call unsafe due to the amount of people.......this land is hunted hard.....we have around 10 guys each year that go in opening weekend.....I would guess there is atleast 300 people on this property opening weekend........not good management 

If you want to shoot a better deer than you have on the land you're currently hunting then you should look for state land with better deer/less pressure. You might have to drive further but it's out there. If you're not willing to leave the land you're unhappy with then you can't expect different results. Shooting a deer because someone else might is a cop out, like it or not. By you shooting that deer before the other guy can makes you that guy! I've been in woods swarmed with people so I never go back, I find woods that aren't nearly as pressured. It takes research and legwork yes, but certainly attainable. Noone is saying that by you and you alone letting young deer live is going to make the woods full of older deer. We're saying if everyone has that mentality of "I'll shoot it before someone else might" then you'll always have the same problem. A deer surviving another year starts with you...

[Four Season Whitetail's]

57 minutes ago, chrisw said:

If you want to shoot a better deer than you have on the land you're currently hunting then you should look for state land with better deer/less pressure. You might have to drive further but it's out there. If you're not willing to leave the land you're unhappy with then you can't expect different results. Shooting a deer because someone else might is a cop out, like it or not. By you shooting that deer before the other guy can makes you that guy! I've been in woods swarmed with people so I never go back, I find woods that aren't nearly as pressured. It takes research and legwork yes, but certainly attainable. Noone is saying that by you and you alone letting young deer live is going to make the woods full of older deer. We're saying if everyone has that mentality of "I'll shoot it before someone else might" then you'll always have the same problem. A deer surviving another year starts with you...

So true....I leave 1000 acres of great hunting land for weeks at a time to drive 21/2 hours one way to hunt state land that 100.s of hunters hunt. There is bigger deer there and thats what i am after, so i do it.  This is some of the best land in the area that i leave and there is some great deer but i just dont see those 130 plus very often up here but see many on the heavy hunted state land every year. Get out what ya put in!

[upstatehunter]

16 hours ago, ....rob said:

Just remember. Its a herd of deer.

Some state land is too insane for me to even bother with opening day gun. Most of those are close to cities ( 20 minutes or so ) and get a lot more pressure. Yet some of it, if you leave the confines of rurality behind you could sit all day, know there were other hunters in the woods, and not hear a shot or see them.

State land that gets hit hard does suffer a little from too many hunters IMO.

 

spell check messed it up

[upstatehunter]

10 hours ago, chrisw said:

If you want to shoot a better deer than you have on the land you're currently hunting then you should look for state land with better deer/less pressure. You might have to drive further but it's out there. If you're not willing to leave the land you're unhappy with then you can't expect different results. Shooting a deer because someone else might is a cop out, like it or not. By you shooting that deer before the other guy can makes you that guy! I've been in woods swarmed with people so I never go back, I find woods that aren't nearly as pressured. It takes research and legwork yes, but certainly attainable. Noone is saying that by you and you alone letting young deer live is going to make the woods full of older deer. We're saying if everyone has that mentality of "I'll shoot it before someone else might" then you'll always have the same problem. A deer surviving another year starts with you...

I hunt the south for one weekend and I hunt where I do because I have since I was 13.  we all have great memories there and we all return each year together to hunt.  I never said I only wanted big bucks to walk by.  personally I think shooting a big buck every year would get boring.  I would probably stop hunting.  I also never said or implied that I blow over any deer before anyone else can.  my initial post said that it is hard to let small bucks pass when you probably aren't going to see anything bigger

[chrisw]

I hunt the south for one weekend and I hunt where I do because I have since I was 13.  we all have great memories there and we all return each year together to hunt.  I never said I only wanted big bucks to walk by.  personally I think shooting a big buck every year would get boring.  I would probably stop hunting.  I also never said or implied that I blow over any deer before anyone else can.  my initial post said that it is hard to let small bucks pass when you probably aren't going to see anything bigger

If you're only hunting this particular piece for one weekend a year then you don't truly know what age classes of deer it holds. It is hard for some people to let young deer go in hopes of seeing an older one, this is why I said if you don't like the idea of eating buck tags at seasons end this type of hunting may not be for you. Shoot what makes you happy and don't make excuses for what you fill your tag on. Everyone's experience is different and you get out what you put in. I'm not bashing your style of hunting or criticizing you in anyway, I just have strong feelings about this topic.

[skiop]

9 hours ago, upstatehunter said:

  personally I think shooting a big buck every year would get boring.  I would probably stop hunting. 

Yeah......ok

[growalot]

Quote

Yeah......ok

I wonder how old you are ,because I can't imagine an older (length of time hunting) saying that...That is if I am catching  your meaning in that...I would stop hunting if I knew every year I went out, I would shoot one of those big bucks I get pics of in the spring and summer...Well usually get pictures of that it...

Explain to me what the fun in that would be? Now if I needed meat ,I could always go out for and hour or so and pop the first doe I see..but that's not hunting to me I could do that out the computer window...Which is why I don't always go to the stands I am absolutely sure they will be at a given time during the day...and sometimes I say to heck with the wind and coin toss where to go...If I wanted ducks in a barrel ...I'd spend less money and a whole lot less time and go to the arcade or state fair.