Crossbow/gun and whitetail population

[stubborn1VT]

Thanks guys!  We only get 3 in VT.  Two can be bucks.  No spikehorns.  I know NY has tons more deer, but I had no idea...

[wolc123]

I am actually arguing more for others who are stuck in either the Southern or Northern zones.   I have access to decent spots in both zone, so I get a total of 17 days to use my crossbow, compared to 14 for those stuck in the Southern zone and just 3 for those up North (ML kicks in up there after 3 days of crossbow).   

It is not selfish to try and fill more tags if you are in a zone, such as the one where I live (9F) where the DEC has struggled to get the population under control.  In doing so, you may actually save a person's life by preventing a car-deer accident, and give some hungry folks some good meals.    

The deer here go nocturnal as soon as they realize they are being hunted, so the crossbow would be the perfect weapon for taking them out before they know whats up.    I did sit thru the last two cold weekends of deer hunting (different spot every time) with my shotgun and ML, without seeing a thing, in futile effort to do my part and fill them last two tags.

I will admit to some selfishness in that I would much prefer to be out there earlier when the deer still come out by day and it is not so cold for me.    

Still dancing DOC?  

[reeltime]

3 hours ago, wolc123 said:

Wanting to open a season so that more folks can participate is the opposite of selfish.  You are so blinded by your own selfishness that you can not see the forest for the trees.  You will loose, hopefully by next October.   

YOU by your own admission "used" to bowhunt but now make a list of excuses as to why you can not find time to practice so you want your own personal participation trophy the all mighty deer slaying crossbow.  you know the quiet weapon so the deer don't go nocturnal.  

You already can use your super weapon for arguably the best 2 weeks of the current season you only want all of it for YOUR own selfish reasons.  If you honestly think having full inclusion is going to generate added big game license sales  you truly are living in a fantasy world.  will it add to and it better be mandatory bowhunting licenses ?  YES it will because just as in EVERY single state that implemented crossbows gun hunters will buy the stamp and go deer hunting.

muzzle loader doe and would not surprise me if also SR. license holder doe season in or around the current youth hunt weekend will likely be added within the next 5 years.  remember its YOU that wants an easier way to kill deer, so when you fail at that the state  will take it upon themselves to add the tools to kill deer.

so if the deer herd is so out of control in your neighborhood and you try to come across as in fear for your life driving down the road and you hunt for your food supply  then why are you killing all the buck fawns?  why would you be targeting fawns at all? why would you use a tag on a deer that yields at best 30 lbs. of meat?  you should be targeting the adult baby factories so as to kill 2 birds with 1 stone, 3 less deer next year and upwards of 60 lbs of meat...... its evident in your own writings, you simply want to kill deer and use any excuse to justify why you did it or want to do it.... you know sending them to deer heaven as YOU call it.

 

[reeltime]

40 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

I am actually arguing more for others who are stuck in either the Southern or Northern zones.   I have access to decent spots in both zone, so I get a total of 17 days to use my crossbow, compared to 14 for those stuck in the Southern zone and just 3 for those up North (ML kicks in up there after 3 days of crossbow).   

It is not selfish to try and fill more tags if you are in a zone, such as the one where I live (9F) where the DEC has struggled to get the population under control.  In doing so, you may actually save a person's life by preventing a car-deer accident, and give some hungry folks some good meals.    

every single deer shot by a hunter is 1 less that may possibly get hit by a car,  your worried about car/deer fatal MVA's  that are extremely rare, you would be better served focusing your passion on trying to prevent fatal DWI MVA's.  nothing stopping you from donating some of your own personal venison supply to some hungry folks.

 

The deer here go nocturnal as soon as they realize they are being hunted, so the crossbow would be the perfect weapon for taking them out before they know whats up.    I did sit thru the last two cold weekends of deer hunting (different spot every time) with my shotgun and ML, without seeing a thing, in futile effort to do my part and fill them last two tags.

deer have a good idea they are being hunted as soon as you step foot in the woods, you may get by with some things if you are extremely careful in your approach, departure,  scent, location etc.   you go blundering into the woods smelling of gasoline, xyz aftershave, etc. the deer figure it out immediately.   

I find it funny that people believe when its not deer season  the deer just haphazardly wander around and don't have a thing to worry about since its not season,  every single second of their lives  are spent in survival mode, 24/7/365  if they get sloppy they get eaten.

I will admit to some selfishness in that I would much prefer to be out there earlier when the deer still come out by day and it is not so cold for me.    

you finally admitted it,  its all about YOU.

Still dancing DOC?  

 

Edited December 27, 2016 by reeltime
forgot to bold my responses

[upstate]

This debate can go on forever.  See:

QDMA

Antler Restrictions

Nothing new to see here, move along. 

[reeltime]

15 minutes ago, upstate said:

This debate can go on forever.  See:

QDMA

Antler Restrictions

Nothing new to see here, move along. 

but this is fun. and its 4 months till spring turkey season.

 

[chrisw]

Wow, it only took 10 pages for Wolc123 to admit his reasoning for full inclusion was self driven and selfish, although he tries to cover it up with saving people's lives and feeding starving to death families. Priceless.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

[wolc123]

Wow you NYB guys are really grasping at straws now that your ship is going down.  Chris has even forgot how to count to ten (hint - use both hands).   That disappearing poll, on this site, that showed bowhunters in favor of full inclusion by a 2:1 margin over leaving it the same must be the straw that broke the camels back.   Don't be too surprised when we see full inclusion next season.  And don't worry, you will still be able to let loose some arrows at deer with your compounds, recurves, and longbows if you prefer.   None of us are suggesting taking anything away from you.   All we want is to be able to share in the early opportunities.      

[BigVal]

An update - a thread on this site has minimal say in the overall feeling of crossbow and the legitimatacy of the proposal.

Meaning the now famous vote for full inclusion thread.

Edited December 27, 2016 by BigVal

[upstate]

12 minutes ago, BigVal said:

An update - a thread on this site has minimal say in the overall feeling of crossbow and the legitimatacy of the proposal.

Meaning the now famous vote for full inclusion thread.

Exactly- 

 

Full inclusion will happen in NY - breaking the hearts of the true bow hunters 

 

 

[wolc123]

Maybe not, but it is evidence I can use to support my theory that the majority of New York state bowhunters support full inclusion.    It also indicates the lack of support, on this site, for those who are fighting against full inclusion.   And I am really enjoying carrying on this fight now that deer hunting is over for a while.         

16 minutes ago, BigVal said:

An update - a thread on this site has minimal say in the overall feeling of crossbow and the legitimatacy of the proposal.

Meaning the now famous vote for full inclusion thread.

 

[turkeyfeathers]

Ugh. This debacle is catching up to the beer thread in posts. 

[Doc]

11 hours ago, wolc123 said:

Doc, you appear to have side-stepped all these questions.  Are you a professional dancer when you are not on the internet?

Also, I have never said anything about not wanting to allow folks to use compounds, recurves or longbows during archery season.  There are plenty of deer for all of us.  The more the merrier.  

I'm not sidestepping anything, I am simply stopping you from ducking out of the topic through irrelevant questions that are none of your business and that have no bearing on the topic. It's obvious that you are trying to badmouth bows as being inefficient and inhumane deer hunting weapons, and I won't side-track the thread with that kind of discussion. Stick to the topic, and start reading the responses and perhaps we can have a discussion. But if you are trying to skip out from under your failed arguments by changing the subject, I'm sorry but I am not going to enable that tactic.

 

[Doc]

9 hours ago, wolc123 said:

I will admit to some selfishness in that I would much prefer to be out there earlier when the deer still come out by day and it is not so cold for me.    

How about addressing the more obvious selfishness where you will try to block firearms from your new crossbow season. You know..... the season that you people bulldozed your way into. Do you ever intend to address what makes you not selfish when you want to exclude guns? Does God give you some special dispensation because it is you that is excluding people from hunting "your" deer ...... lol. You throw that selfish term around pretty freely, apparently thinking that as long as your hero Babe Winkleman said it that it can only be used against bow hunters. But take a look in the mirror and you will see more selfishness and self-serving attitudes than any bowhunter ever displayed and you will also see a guy that would also attempt to preserve his season through exclusion of others. So now when you feel like getting involved with the name-calling and insults understand that you are part of it all now too. I'm sorry that I have to be the one that keeps bringing up that fact that you keep ignoring (what has it been, maybe a dozen times that I have brought that uncomfortable fact up to you). Sorry, but running away from that fact does not really make it go away.... Nor does the tactic of not reading or responding to any of the replies that come back from your senseless rhetoric.

[Doc]

5 hours ago, turkeyfeathers said:

Ugh. This debacle is catching up to the beer thread in posts. 

Yeah, crossbow threads do seem to take on a life of there own. But I think it is a viable discussion because there are some pretty important principles at work here in terms of what a "special" season really means anymore.

Also, if anyone thinks that the evolution of bow season will stop with crossbows, understand that the blueprint for season invasion was written here with the crossbow, primarily using the principle of incremental precedents. There are many others who are looking at this successful invasion with a jealous eye toward following that blueprint.

The story is not ended yet.

[Doc]

Deleted

Edited December 27, 2016 by Doc
Repeated post

[nyantler]

Personally I don't get the aversion to using a crossbow in the archery season or any other season for that matter. Probably because I have no interest in the crossbow and it has no impact on my hunting what so ever. God forbid someone kills a deer during any season with a legal weapon...  you could mess up someone's "hit list".

[skiop]

48 minutes ago, nyantler said:

Personally I don't get the aversion to using a crossbow in the archery season or any other season for that matter. Probably because I have no interest in the crossbow and it has no impact on my hunting what so ever. God forbid someone kills a deer during any season with a legal weapon...  you could mess up someone's "hit list".

It brings out those same unsavory characters that gun season does

[Bowshotmuzzleloader]

You can sort of get a feel for the kill rate if you look at the "crossbow harvest thread " the best two weeks to be in the woods before gun ....

 

[stubby68]

2 hours ago, skiop said:

It brings out those same unsavory characters that gun season does

             This statement and others like it are what causes the divide  between bow hunters and gun hunters. We are all just hunters why do bow hunters constantly say things like this. 

[wolc123]

All bowhunters don't talk like that.  The vast majority (as shown by the poll in the bowhunting section on this site which indicated 2:1 support of full crossbow inclusion) are not part of the selfish elitist group.       

[stubby68]

52 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

All bowhunters don't talk like that.  The vast majority (as shown by the poll in the bowhunting section on this site which indicated 2:1 support of full crossbow inclusion) are not part of the selfish elitist group.       

That poll showed nothing. I voted for crossbow. I do not bow hunt nor do I use a crossbow. How many others voted for the crossbow that do not bow hunt? 

[BigVal]

Damn selfish elitist crossbow supporters are back at it 

[DirtTime]

I wrote a few emails asking to allow full inclusion, I hunt with a compound and I gun hunt. I see no factual harm in it. I also don't think the gun hunters with no etiquette will bother. You only get one shot with a crossbow, just like a vert bow, then it's empty. The clowns who feel they need to empty the gun at running deer will not take up the crossbow, so this thought that full inclusion will muck up the bow season and bring out the unethical's is unfounded. It's rhetoric and hearsay.

Here's some food for though. We have a few on here that only use a bow during the gun season. What if DEC made changes that you can't use any vert bow during the gun season? It's the regular season, and it's geared at the gun hunters! I bet that would put a real pucker in your backside. 

[Doc]

4 hours ago, ....rob said:

I wrote a few emails asking to allow full inclusion, I hunt with a compound and I gun hunt. I see no factual harm in it. I also don't think the gun hunters with no etiquette will bother. You only get one shot with a crossbow, just like a vert bow, then it's empty. The clowns who feel they need to empty the gun at running deer will not take up the crossbow, so this thought that full inclusion will muck up the bow season and bring out the unethical's is unfounded. It's rhetoric and hearsay.

Here's some food for though. We have a few on here that only use a bow during the gun season. What if DEC made changes that you can't use any vert bow during the gun season? It's the regular season, and it's geared at the gun hunters! I bet that would put a real pucker in your backside. 

I hope the single-shot argument never becomes a criteria for inclusion into bow season, or we will have the muzzleloaders, and single-shot rifles and shotguns alongside us (But that would make us unselfish....lol). But using only one shot is no strange concept for a whole lot of us gun hunters. In fact many very popular rifles and shotguns are single shot.

I suspect the number of bowhunters who would really give a damn about being booted out of the regular gun season could be counted on one hand with fingers left over ..... lol.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Doc