SB 4739 - Establishes the yearling buck protection program

[Buckmaster7600]

this just did another one this past season.  they do them often.  why nothing much changes blows my mind and they wonder why certain individuals FOIL the crap out of information they receive.

No they did another random questionnaire.


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[dbHunterNY]

4 hours ago, Doewhacker said:

I'm sure a Facebook page vets all of its perspective members when they send in a request to join to make sure they are all from NY and are a real person.

my point is most on the page probably have a vested interest in NY hunting.  otherwise why would you go out of your way to get permission for the page?  it's a private page so not every friend of a friend, who happened to see on a home page feed can suddenly comment on it and vote. so it's vetted in that sense yea.

[dbHunterNY]

10 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

 

No they did another random questionnaire.


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true.... not the best way to get a concise clear answer.

[Doewhacker]

1 hour ago, growalot said:

Doewhacker ...are you saying you do not support the right to hunt and fish legislation?

 

What did you smoke today? 

I posted the fact that it is a privilege not a right in NY, contrary to what db posted. 

[Doewhacker]

31 minutes ago, dbHunterNY said:

thanks for reiterating my point.

So you tried to make a point by incorrectly claiming hunting is a right in NY, that doesn't make any sense hombre. 

[Doewhacker]

18 minutes ago, dbHunterNY said:

my point is most on the page probably have a vested interest in NY hunting.  otherwise why would you go out of your way to get permission for the page?  it's a private page so not every friend of a friend, who happened to see on a home page feed can suddenly comment on it and vote. so it's vetted in that sense yea.

Do you know how Facebook works? Lol

I guarantee there are non hunters and anti hunters that are members of that page. That would make those highly touted 18k members not so important wouldn't it. 

[growalot]

Quote

What did you smoke today? 

Nothing, thank you for asking...It was a simple question...You do know what the purpose of a question is don't you?  To gain further knowledge or to clarify information read. You might want to adjust your tighty whities, they seem to be in a bunch

Edited March 21, 2017 by growalot

[dbHunterNY]

15 minutes ago, Doewhacker said:

What did you smoke today? 

I posted the fact that it is a privilege not a right in NY, contrary to what db posted. 

 

13 minutes ago, Doewhacker said:

So you tried to make a point by incorrectly claiming hunting is a right in NY, that doesn't make any sense hombre. 

nope... you misunderstood.  Grow understood, hence her comment.  Phade said legislators shouldn't have any part of deer hunting/management and eluded that i should basically tell them to screw off and not meddle with deer, leaving it to DEC instead.  i was pointing out just what you said it's not a right it's a privilege currently here in NY.  i was referencing "right to hunt and fish" legislation that never goes anywhere that would give us a season not dependent on legislators approving it every year first.  why would i trash the people that approve to have a season each year and expect good things to happen, was the main point.

...we good Cheech?

[Doewhacker]

12 minutes ago, dbHunterNY said:

 

nope... you misunderstood.  Grow understood, hence her comment.  Phade said legislators shouldn't have any part of deer hunting/management and eluded that i should basically tell them to screw off and not meddle with deer, leaving it to DEC instead.  i was pointing out just what you said it's not a right it's a privilege currently here in NY.  i was referencing "right to hunt and fish" legislation that never goes anywhere that would give us a season not dependent on legislators approving it every year first.  why would i trash the people that approve to have a season each year and expect good things to happen, was the main point.

...we good Cheech?

I sincerely hope you make more sense when pleading your case to law makers than you do on here because on here you come off kind of incoherent. You're not alone in not making sense in this thread so don't feel too bad. 

 

Making it a right would do nothing to change anything in NY by the way. It's basically a feel good law that helps politicians gain support from hunters. 

 

I agree with Phade, law makers should butt out of decisions for hunting, which includes more than just deer. 

[bobdun]

Haven't read through this entire thread but think Rebel Darling makes a good point back on post of 2/28.  Laws are a lot different than regulations that the DEC would set.  My view is that the DEC should be setting hunting regs and not the lawmakers.  We all know how often regulations change and from a time standpoint alone, not sure we want to leave it up to the lawmakers to change law if our DEC thinks it has to move quickly on game management issues. 

[growalot]

Quote

Making it a right would do nothing to change anything in NY by the way. It's basically a feel good law that helps politicians gain support from hunters. 

What have you been smoking to make that comment? In these times when every year, another town is added to the sniper way of deer management superseding hunters. When HUSA is one of the biggest lobbyist in Washington and NYS. When the only reason the safe act didn't thoroughly go after all your hunting guns is because of hunting ,you think it should not be a state constitutional right at the very least. Yep I'll stop right there...

Edited March 21, 2017 by growalot

[Doewhacker]

11 minutes ago, growalot said:

What have you been smoking to make that comment? In these times when every year, another town is added to the sniper way of deer management superseding hunters. When HUSA is one of the biggest lobbyist in Washington and NYS. When the only reason the safe act didn't thoroughly go after all your hunting guns is because of hunting ,you think it should not be a state constitutional right at the very least. Yep I'll stop right there...

What? I'm not even going to address this drivel.

 

Back to AR's, bring them on state wide!!!! Make them even harder in western NY, make it a width and point restriction. How about a weight restriction too or maybe a age restriction and have a class you need to pass before you can hunt. 

[dbHunterNY]

22 minutes ago, Doewhacker said:

I sincerely hope you make more sense when pleading your case to law makers than you do on here because on here you come off kind of incoherent. You're not alone in not making sense in this thread so don't feel too bad. 

 

Making it a right would do nothing to change anything in NY by the way. It's basically a feel good law that helps politicians gain support from hunters. 

 

I agree with Phade, law makers should butt out of decisions for hunting, which includes more than just deer. 

i question your sincerity.  never realized my coherence was in question. nice of you to point it out.

[dbHunterNY]

35 minutes ago, bobdun said:

Haven't read through this entire thread but think Rebel Darling makes a good point back on post of 2/28.  Laws are a lot different than regulations that the DEC would set.  My view is that the DEC should be setting hunting regs and not the lawmakers.  We all know how often regulations change and from a time standpoint alone, not sure we want to leave it up to the lawmakers to change law if our DEC thinks it has to move quickly on game management issues. 

you're right.  unfortunately there's a demand for better yearling buck protection in some areas of NY versus others.  DEC is half-heartedly addressing the issue through voluntary restraint for loosely defined "young" bucks.  the consensus is this will do very little in a hunting lifetime, knowing that the age of your average NY deer hunter is pretty old.  therefore people are taking action to pursue imperfect legislation that will get results they see while they can still hunt.  dozens of states have some form of antler restriction and this has been a topic of discussion for decades.  DEC still hasn't pulled the trigger on antler restrictions, even at the very least to see it fail and put it to bed, like countless other regulations that have been implemented in the past.  this legislation coming life shouldn't surprise anyone, regardless of their stance.

[Raymond Purdy]

58 minutes ago, bobdun said:

Haven't read through this entire thread but think Rebel Darling makes a good point back on post of 2/28.  Laws are a lot different than regulations that the DEC would set.  My view is that the DEC should be setting hunting regs and not the lawmakers.  We all know how often regulations change and from a time standpoint alone, not sure we want to leave it up to the lawmakers to change law if our DEC thinks it has to move quickly on game management issues. 

105 years of moving quickly!

 

58 minutes ago, bobdun said:

Haven't read through this entire thread but think Rebel Darling makes a good point back on post of 2/28.  Laws are a lot different than regulations that the DEC would set.  My view is that the DEC should be setting hunting regs and not the lawmakers.  We all know how often regulations change and from a time standpoint alone, not sure we want to leave it up to the lawmakers to change law if our DEC thinks it has to move quickly on game management issues. 

 

[grampy]

1 hour ago, Doewhacker said:

What? I'm not even going to address this drivel.

 

Back to AR's, bring them on state wide!!!! Make them even harder in western NY, make it a width and point restriction. How about a weight restriction too or maybe a age restriction and have a class you need to pass before you can hunt. 

Just what we need, more regulations!  I really don't need some politician,   who has never hunted, telling me how I should hunt, and what to shoot!

[Lawdwaz]

If it's brown it's down..........

[grampy]

18 minutes ago, Lawdwaz said:

If it's brown it's down..........

If a hunter has a tag in their pocket, and that's what he or she decides to do, they should have that choice. I've seen nothing written in this thread that convinced me, that saving yearling bucks improves the deer herd. I just don't buy it! Will it give the deer herd a few more racked bucks over time? Probably. But is it worth passing more legislation, so that a few can shoot a larger buck at the expense of the hunter that just wants to shoot a darned deer? I really don't think so. 

[tuckersdaddy]

QDMA as an entity is very much not vested in this antler restriction legislation and lobbying, despite some volunteers who wear that hat are. The article isn't BS.
From a very simple perspective if we all stopped shooting deer and let nature solely do the management then would there be an age structure, young to mature? The answer is yes, so why is it so hard to believe it's something that's good for deer and not just a people driven idea?

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I see... no other source... So its belief not proven...hmmmm.... Lets look at Ma nature. She does not care about age structue... She belives in only the strong in health and mind survive. When predidation ( and yes we are apex in NY) the young and very old are the first to be taken. When was the last time you saw a yote take on a mature deer? Big cats can be a different story but the young are always the first choice. So the argument that all the young bucks get shot is simply invalid. The weak ones needing to feed or the dumb ones that think the middle of open woods is good cover during prime hunting hours are the ones that get shot, and make no mistake about it this happens with doe as well.. but I never hear the AR groups say dont shoot young doe. So please stop trying to hide the fact that these group are out for a higher cause... They have vested intrest which make any study or pole questionable if not invalid.

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[Matthewsshooter]

This has been an amusing thread, hope it passes. Wish it was DEC sponsored, Won't be a magic pill but don't see how it could hurt my current area. Think 9t would benefit and glad it's included. #'s already down, why not limit immature buck take? Already limit antler less,

[G-Man]

So here is the question .. How do you come up with age of bucks taken in NY? 

They do not mandatory check deer. They have no question asking you to age the buck. Its a call in number of points a side.. But they can state 60% year-long buck on a mandatory tag report that only has less than 60% reporting... So now we will base a new hunting law on those guesses.. This from people that complain that the Dec can't regulate for tags and there are no deer( but we will use same numbers to push an adjenda for older bucks) waste of time and not needed.

[NFA-ADK]

How many times do we hear the real facts that AR has nothing to do with herd management and is more about hunters wanting 10 point studs walking everywhere.  This has already proven ineffective.  

Do they mention in any of these surveys about how this has been done in western states and found to be ineffective?

Do they mention how many young deer are shot and left in the woods?  Due to AR?

Do they mention how many 2.5 year old deer are killed with AR?  Usually the same as spike bucks where before AR.  Mission failed!

To me I do not see a major problem with NY deer.  We have some over population issue and low numbers in some areas but overall the herd is strong!  Many clubs and hunters have restrictions they put on themselves for what ever reason that exceed AR and more are doing it every year.  Many parts of the state produce huge bucks thanks to these hunters passing them.

Yea someone 16 and under can shoot any deer great, what about the hunter 7 years in who has never shot any deer?  I would never want to take that away from another hunter, that experience and thrill is what keeps that person in the game!  Restrictions for many with less experience and time will mean defeat.

 

If you asked me 10 years ago about AR I would have jumped on board!  (I was young and needed the money!) Wait that was the pictures!  (I was just young and dumb not as knowledgeable as I am now.)  Learning from my fellow hunters on this forum has changed my view for the better! 

LET US HUNT!!!  Keep your regulations to yourself and your hunting spot, I do but want my brothers and sisters to pick and choose what they want.

My buddy missed a spike in one of my big buck spots, his first shot at a deer ever, I would hate to take away his second shot because of selfish hunters wanting bigger bucks to hunt. 

[tuckersdaddy]

QDMA as an entity is very much not vested in this antler restriction legislation and lobbying, despite some volunteers who wear that hat are. The article isn't BS.
From a very simple perspective if we all stopped shooting deer and let nature solely do the management then would there be an age structure, young to mature? The answer is yes, so why is it so hard to believe it's something that's good for deer and not just a people driven idea?

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qdma with no vested intrest??? Thier sole exsistance is the buzz around shooting large antler. Take an average hunter with a bit of property tell them they can nurture healthy deer, you have thier attention for mabey 15 seconds until mention the work involved. Mention you can lead them down a path to 175 antler score they dont hear about the work... they just write the check for membership, magazines, hats and anything else. Its a sales pitch. No revenue no qdma. If ARs are passed the same person will have no choice but to turn to qdma to grow big bucks just to shoot a deer on his own property. No vested intrest? yea right.

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[Steve D]

What is deer management?

Quality Deer Management (QDM) is a management philosophy/practice that unites landowners, hunters, and managers in a common goal of producing biologically and socially balanced deer herds within existing environmental, social, and legal constraints.

 

Anybody following the actual bill??  Same conversation going on there in the discussion section and it is just about as productive as this one

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2017/s4739/amendment/a

Edited March 22, 2017 by Steve D

[grampy]

32 minutes ago, NFA-ADK said:

How many times do we hear the real facts that AR has nothing to do with herd management and is more about hunters wanting 10 point studs walking everywhere.  This has already proven ineffective.  

Do they mention in any of these surveys about how this has been done in western states and found to be ineffective?

Do they mention how many young deer are shot and left in the woods?  Due to AR?

Do they mention how many 2.5 year old deer are killed with AR?  Usually the same as spike bucks where before AR.  Mission failed!

To me I do not see a major problem with NY deer.  We have some over population issue and low numbers in some areas but overall the herd is strong!  Many clubs and hunters have restrictions they put on themselves for what ever reason that exceed AR and more are doing it every year.  Many parts of the state produce huge bucks thanks to these hunters passing them.

Yea someone 16 and under can shoot any deer great, what about the hunter 7 years in who has never shot any deer?  I would never want to take that away from another hunter, that experience and thrill is what keeps that person in the game!  Restrictions for many with less experience and time will mean defeat.

 

If you asked me 10 years ago about AR I would have jumped on board!  (I was young and needed the money!) Wait that was the pictures!  (I was just young and dumb not as knowledgeable as I am now.)  Learning from my fellow hunters on this forum has changed my view for the better! 

LET US HUNT!!!  Keep your regulations to yourself and your hunting spot, I do but want my brothers and sisters to pick and choose what they want.

My buddy missed a spike in one of my big buck spots, his first shot at a deer ever, I would hate to take away his second shot because of selfish hunters wanting bigger bucks to hunt. 

The voice of reason and common sense.  Well stated.