Do You Support Crossbow Full Inclusion into the NY Archery Season?

[WNYBuckHunter]

20 minutes ago, hunterdan44 said:

A poor hunter who takes ridiculous shots , is the same regardless of weapon used. Poor arrow placement will not be good no matter recurve, crossbow or compound.


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Which is why I said that in this guys case, from what I have seen and heard (excuses about bad shots due to form not being correct), a crossbow may solve some of his mistakes. I never said it would cure all of his issues.

You guys feel free to continue twisting what I said to suit your agenda though.

[Five Seasons]

20 hours ago, wooly said:

Just another little spin I'll add to that.

 

I'd rather see a guy out there with a crossbow making simple one shot one kill shots on game, filling his tag, and getting out of the woods.

Opposed to the guy who's not as skilled or dedicated  forced to hunt with a vertical bow with a list of excuses while fatally wounding 1, 2, 3, or more deer a season before he finally gets a tag on one....or none, but the end result is still several dead deer that nobody will ever get the chance at going to waste.

If crossbows make guys more efficient hunters, then I'm all for that. In theory crossbows could quite possibly have a positive impact on deer #'s if you can get them in the hands of guys who aren't cut out for hunting with a vertical bow (such as the neighbor you mention).

chances are the guy who sucks with his compound is getting busted on the draw or clean missing more than he's wounding.

[Five Seasons]

On 10/4/2017 at 8:48 AM, growalot said:

Because sometimes your body doesn't always do what your mind wants it to.....I have a great vertical bow but as I age the old body isn't as good as the bow and that should not keep me out of the woods doing what I enjoy doing...even if I have to limit that time.

and 90% of bowhunters have no issue with the disabled using a crossbow. quit bringing that up.

[Five Seasons]

16 hours ago, wolc123 said:

I appreciate your bluntness and honesty here.   Most anti-crossbow folks do not come right out and admit that they want less hunters in the woods.  Some say that archery season was created to increase the challenge and they wish to keep it that way.  If they truly wanted to preserve their special time of "increased challenge", would not some additional hunters increase that challenge ?   I think there is a good chance that the challenge may lessen a bit with full inclusion, especially during the rut.  The reason for that is: the "full-inclusion" update also includes categorizing the crossbow as archery equipment, and requires the archery course.   My guess is that many will be too lazy to sit thru another 8 hour course.  The way the rules are now, anyone with a gun licence can hunt the rut with a crossbow, merely by signing their name on a little piece of paper.        

there's a level of challenge that varies for all hunters. having to predict my clown neighbors movements so now i'm competing against deer, mother nature and another human is not one I'd love to add. To be clear, it's only bow season where i believe many hunters want less pressure, noise and scent in the woods. Gun? Bring it on haha.

[Adkhunter1590]

So, if they arent archery equipment, why would they have to take the bowhunters course? You are contradicting yourself.
BTW, I agree that they should take the bowhunters course, because they are in fact, using a bow.

Your right. I should have said "bow" as in bow season. In my opinion crossbows offer a big advantage over regular bows and shouldn't be allowed starting Oct 1st. I feel the last two weeks of bow season is sufficient enough. If we let this happen I bet you'd hear people calling for early muzzle loader seasons to mimic the western states. I already see that as being the excuse to allow crossbows, so ya I don't see early muzzy seasons being asked for too far into the future. Our deer herd age structure isn't great to begin with. I think it's getting better the last few years and we seem to be on track for growing and harvesting more older bigger racked bucks. The "let em grow" mentality is spreading and I think it would be counter productive to opening up more chances for bucks to be shot early on and the possible increase in amount of overall bucks taken.

[grampy]

This back and forth can go on for another 39 pages, like many of the crossbow debates have done in the past. But,.........full inclusion, 'WILL' be coming within the next few years. Like it or not. I think after that happens, some will see that the 'sky did not fall'.

[LI OUTDOORSMAN]

I say you take the hunter safety class and the bow class...

Archery season you choose your weapon...crossbow,compound,recurve or long bow.

1 either sex tag for archery 1 either sex tag for rifle 

muzzleloader season stays as it is

[Merlot]

15 hours ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Who are you to judge people’s lives? There are plenty of people that have kids, work multiple jobs and have to squeeze time just to get in the Woods. It doesn’t make them any less passionate, it just means they have different priorities and responsibilities than others  let’s face it, not everyone wants to be or can be as dedicated to deer hunting as most of us that are on this site. 

Bottom line is, a crossbow is another form of archery equipment. I believe it belongs in archery season with the rest of them. Stop with the airbow, its not a bow, no limbs, no string. It’s an air gun. 

I would honestly have no issue with taking away some time from gun season, but it shouldn’t be given to bow hunters. We already have 7 weeks. I’d rather see a break between the seasons or a split gun season. 

Appreciate your mentioning the lack of time in some peoples lives, but if a person has a few minutes of spare time, a basement, an appropriate backstop and can shoot safely downstairs, then a person can get some practice in if only for a few shots here and there. I shoot 12 yards in basement and helps, even if only for several shots a day. 

Hate to see deer lost perhaps because of a less than accurate shot placement.

Just an opinion on this subject.

Good luck to all this season.

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

5 minutes ago, Merlot said:

Appreciate your mentioning the lack of time in some peoples lives, but if a person has a few minutes of spare time, a basement, an appropriate backstop and can shoot safely downstairs, then a person can get some practice in if only for a few shots here and there. I shoot 12 yards in basement and helps, even if only for several shots a day. 

Hate to see deer lost perhaps because of a less than accurate shot placement.

Just an opinion on this subject.

Good luck to all this season.

 

For many it sin't that simple. city dwellers or even in housing tracts. Heck I don't have a basement and if it wasn't for a couple cool neighbors my back yard would be off limits 

[WNYBuckHunter]

5 minutes ago, Merlot said:

Appreciate your mentioning the lack of time in some peoples lives, but if a person has a few minutes of spare time, a basement, an appropriate backstop and can shoot safely downstairs, then a person can get some practice in if only for a few shots here and there. I shoot 12 yards in basement and helps, even if only for several shots a day. 

Hate to see deer lost perhaps because of a less than accurate shot placement.

Just an opinion on this subject.

Good luck to all this season.

 

I hear ya, but there are situations that just dont allow the time for someone to be what Id consider proficient. Some homes dont have a basement or a full basement, some people live in trailers or apartments, etc and just have no choice than to go to a range, which takes up time to go back and forth. Those are the people that I have in mind when I say that it would be a good thing for them to be able to be included. Of course there are going to be slob crossbow hunters, just like there are slob bow hunters and slob gun hunters, that is always going to be the case. The guys that think they will step into the woods with a crossbow and it will be like gun hunting are going to find out real quick that isnt the case. If your woodsmanship skills suck, sure you can still get within 100 or 200 yards of a deer and shoot it with a gun, but once deer are inside of that 50 yard mark, its a different ballgame.

Ill use myself as an example. I didnt grow up in a hunting family, my dad had quit hunting years before I was born, and the members of my family that did hunt lived pretty far away, so basically I had a few friends around my age and a couple that were a bit older, that did their best to show me the ropes when I started out. Looking back though, I had no idea what I was doing. Sure I shot some deer here and there, but thinking about the times that I did, most of it was dumb luck. Then I started taking more of an interest in how to really hunt bigger bucks, as I wasnt having much luck at all with them. I read alot, and started researching and talking to other hunters more and more. I started using tactics that some bowhunters suggested, and thats when my luck started to change. It wasnt actual luck, I was just learning woodsmanship, and how to get close to deer undetected. Thats when I really started to discover bow hunting. I picked up a bow and practiced my ass off for a good solid year before I felt comfortable enough to hunt with it. Once I did, I was in for quite a surprise when the basic skills I had picked up no longer worked for me with a bow. So I started learning more, and found that the more I learned, the better my odds were. If I was a slob that wasnt interested in improving myself and my skills, I would have hung my bow up a long time ago.

Basically I believe that guys that pick up a crossbow without ever bow hunting before, will go one of two ways. They will either give it up after a season or two and continue to gun hunt, or they will work toward becoming a better bow hunter and fit right in with the rest of us. Who knows, maybe in time they will seek more of a challenge and pick up a vertical bow. I dont see how that is bad for the sport in any way. The true slob hunters, well, there isnt much we can do about that. They will always be there no matter what weapon or season we are talking about.

[WNYBuckHunter]

29 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

For many it sin't that simple. city dwellers or even in housing tracts. Heck I don't have a basement and if it wasn't for a couple cool neighbors my back yard would be off limits 

Same here when I lived in Lima

[Five Seasons]

there are many ranges that have bow courses setup in addition to their pistol and rifle range. The pure beauty of archery is that it does take time. so the average swinging dick can't just plop into the forest. if you're serious enough you join a club and shoot at their range. if you don't have time for that, then you don't value cutting something else out to make it happen and then you stick to gun.

btw, i have 3 kids under 5 and a fulltime job. I make it work by sacrificing other things i'd like to do.

[WNYBuckHunter]

10 minutes ago, Belo said:

there are many ranges that have bow courses setup in addition to their pistol and rifle range. The pure beauty of archery is that it does take time. so the average swinging dick can't just plop into the forest. if you're serious enough you join a club and shoot at their range. if you don't have time for that, then you don't value cutting something else out to make it happen and then you stick to gun.

btw, i have 3 kids under 5 and a fulltime job. I make it work by sacrificing other things i'd like to do.

Just wait till your kids start playing sports lol. Both of mine play hockey, and my time with everything else has shrunk, including hunting. My daughter has already started having practices and games, and my son starts the 18th. Heres my average week:

Sunday - hunt for a few hours if I can, go to my daughters hockey game either here or in Buffalo, hunt more if I can

Monday - Work, daughters hockey

Tuesday - work, maybe get out hunting after work

Wednesday - work, sons hockey, daughters hockey

Thursday - work, maybe get out to hunt

Friday - work, maybe get out to hunt

Saturday - maybe hunt a few hours, sons hockey, daughters hockey game either here or Buffalo, maybe get out to hunt if I can

Thats not including normal time working on stuff at home, spending time with my girlfriend, etc etc. I also travel for work, and this time of year seems to be their favorite time to send me all over the country. The struggle is real my friend lol

[Five Seasons]

9 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

 

 I also travel for work, and this time of year seems to be their favorite time to send me all over the country. The struggle is real my friend lol

wtf. same here. And they all know i hunt and this is when i take vacation. not in the summer like a "normal person" lol.

Edited October 5, 2017 by Belo

[hunterdan44]

 

 

 

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[NFA-ADK]

1: No

2: No

3: No

4: No

5: No

[Doc]

19 hours ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

I dont need to agree to some outlandish idea just because you can try to crowbar your point into mine. The point that I am speaking of has to do with archery equipment, not just any equipment, because its an archery season.

Crossbows arent a "super weapon", they are just a bow that takes less practice to be proficient with. The exaggerations that some of you come up with in your arguments are completely ridiculous.

Like I said, your comments are exactly the same as those made by many gun hunters. So don't be surprised if gun comparisons automatically become injected. It's not crowbarring anything into anything. It is simply the very next logical step to the line of comment that you raised. When you start promoting advanced and more effective weapons to try to cure the shortfalls of another, you simply open the door for other arguments with the same theme. You can set whatever ground rules that you please, but eventually you have to face with the reality of how the rest of the world deals with those very same sentiments.

And by the way, the intermixing of firearms with bow seasons is not some hypothetical that I made up and really doesn't fall into the category of an "outlandish idea". And so as uncomfortable as it may be to have that pointed out and attached to your comments, I'm afraid that it is a genuine fact of life that, like it or not, has to be faced up to and acknowledged.

Edited October 6, 2017 by Doc

[WNYBuckHunter]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

Like I said, your comments are exactly the same as those made by many gun hunters. So don't be surprised if gun comparisons automatically become injected. It's not crowbarring anything into anything. It is simply the very next logical step to the line of comment that you raised. When you start promoting advanced and more effective weapons to try to cure the shortfalls of another, you simply open the door for other arguments with the same theme. You can set whatever ground rules that you please, but eventually you have to face with the reality of how the rest of the world deals with those very same sentiments.

And by the way, the intermixing of firearms with bow seasons is not some hypothetical that I made up and really doesn't fall into the category of an "outlandish idea". And so as uncomfortable as it may be to have that pointed out and attached to your comments, I'm afraid that it is a genuine fact of life that, like it or not, has to be faced up to and acknowledged.

Its not the logical next step, you guys are making a big jump from archery equipment to guns. Nobody that is supporting crossbows on here has said anything about getting rid of archery season or injecting guns into it. Thats just you anti-crossbow guys that use it as a way to ratchet up the fear factor to try and make a point.

[Trial153]

great reminder for to send my weekly email to my representive reminding that I am against any inclusion of crossbows in the archery season except for the elderly and disabled.


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[Doc]

5 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Its not the logical next step, you guys are making a big jump from archery equipment to guns. Nobody that is supporting crossbows on here has said anything about getting rid of archery season or injecting guns into it. Thats just you anti-crossbow guys that use it as a way to ratchet up the fear factor to try and make a point.

I understand that you want to dictate the terms of the future, but unfortunately, there are already those that are looking greedily at the bowseason and they are firearms users. And the invasion has already begun without a second thought. So don't be telling me that you are the rules-maker and that you can make all of your comments apply only to bows and crossbows. You don't get to set the rules. So when you make comments that indicate that superior weapons should be added to help solve wounding losses of archery, I am certain that the gunners are cheering you on.

[chas0218]

5 hours ago, Doc said:

Like I said, your comments are exactly the same as those made by many gun hunters. So don't be surprised if gun comparisons automatically become injected. It's not crowbarring anything into anything. It is simply the very next logical step to the line of comment that you raised. When you start promoting advanced and more effective weapons to try to cure the shortfalls of another, you simply open the door for other arguments with the same theme. You can set whatever ground rules that you please, but eventually you have to face with the reality of how the rest of the world deals with those very same sentiments.

And by the way, the intermixing of firearms with bow seasons is not some hypothetical that I made up and really doesn't fall into the category of an "outlandish idea". And so as uncomfortable as it may be to have that pointed out and attached to your comments, I'm afraid that it is a genuine fact of life that, like it or not, has to be faced up to and acknowledged.

They already have the "airbow" or whatever it's called that uses compressed air to propel the arrow. The argument for that will be it propels an arrow and is named the "airbow" so it's just like the crossbow we already use.

 

 

I think that we should start to push to use the airbow during crossbow season I mean why not it uses an arrow. Who's with me? There has to be some gun hunters out there that would like to use this instead of that Clunky hard to use crossbow.

http://www.crosman.com/airbow

Edited October 6, 2017 by chas0218

[Culvercreek hunt club]

10 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

They already have the "airbow" or whatever it's called that uses compressed air to propel the arrow. The argument for that will be it propels an arrow and is named the "airbow" so it's just like the crossbow we already use.

 

 

I think that we should start to push to use the airbow during crossbow season I mean why not it uses an arrow. Who's with me? There has to be some gun hunters out there that would like to use this instead of that Clunky hard to use crossbow.

http://www.crosman.com/airbow

You know what, you guys are right. Let's all unite and set bow season to all primitive and just allow long bow or recurve. 

[chas0218]

3 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

You know what, you guys are right. Let's all unite and set bow season to all primitive and just allow long bow or recurve. 

I'd make the switch if I had to. We going to be allowed sights and peep or instinct shooting only?

[Doc]

5 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

You know what, you guys are right. Let's all unite and set bow season to all primitive and just allow long bow or recurve. 

The genie is out of the bottle. These things never go backward. At least not that I have ever seen. I said along time ago that hunters have constantly evolved with a desire to remove challenge from hunting. It started with the sight pin on the recurve and the laminated materials. It moved into the compounds, and now the crossbow. I'm skipping over the boxes and bags and drawerfuls of gadgets and go-fasters, and arrow technologies, and all the scents and attractants and agriculture activities. Why on earth would anyone think any of it could ever be turned back. History doesn't support that idea at all.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

The genie is out of the bottle. These things never go backward. At least not that I have ever seen. I said along time ago that hunters have constantly evolved with a desire to remove challenge from hunting. It started with the sight pin on the recurve and the laminated materials. It moved into the compounds, and now the crossbow. I'm skipping over the boxes and bags and drawerfuls of gadgets and go-fasters, and arrow technologies, and all the scents and attractants and agriculture activities. Why on earth would anyone think any of it could ever be turned back. History doesn't support that idea at all.

I know Doc. It never goes back. We are also never going to stop "advancement" and introduction of new technology. No amount of foot stomping or kicking and screaming will work. There will be full inclusion despite any wishes or comments on this site or ones like this.