Do You Support Crossbow Full Inclusion into the NY Archery Season?

[WNYBuckHunter]

3 hours ago, chas0218 said:

Whoa wait you just said that if you practice consistently you can put all your arrows within a pie plate at 60 yards then say anyone can do it. No not anyone can do it. I watch guys practice everyday for the season and after 40 yards they are missing the target completely. Not anyone can do it. Now I have watched these same guys use a crossbow and have 2" or better groups at 60 yards. I'm sorry but what you stating is just not true.

Most crossbow scopes give you 1.5x up to 6x normally out to 100 yards what would you need more than 6x? I know guys that use 4x fixed magnification on their deer rifles and shoot well past 100 yards. I have seen scopes for bows but guess what, normally fixed magnification andno adjustability for distances so you would be limited by the speed of your bow what will most likely never shoot IBO speeds stated in the other thread unless you decide to shoot 80lbs. draw or more and under spined arrows. 

Bipod really? how many guys do you know shoot with a bipod on their  vertical bows? How many have you seen? I watched 1 person use a bipod on youtube. If shooting anything other than a drop away it throw your shot so far off it wouldn't be right you can't use a bipod on a vertical bow while hunting from a tree stand maybe one of those shooting shacks or in a blind but no way in a tree stand. Also there is no way you could rest your bow on a shooting rail and accurately shoot a deer. Even if you rest the stabilizer I wouldn't want to imagine the noise it would make or clanging it would have.

Can I ask why if using a crossbow from a treestand would you hang it up? I mean when I shot one I laid it across my lap sitting in  a chair no problem granted one side of the strings rested against my leg but it wasn't uncomfortable at least no more than laying my compound across my lap.

All of the things you claim one can do with a vertical are far stretch from a practical hunting bow. Which is what the crossbow is geared towards being able to utilize all the fun features of a gun but to be used during archery. I have no problem with people physically disabled using a crossbow. My father has had 3 shoulder surgeries one on his left and 2 on his right. He has a very hard time pulling back a bow set at 45lbs. so he went to the crossbow this year. I don't think anything less of him or anyone else for using a crossbow because they physically can't use a vertical bow.

Yes, anyone can do it. I’m not special and it’s not that hard. You just need to learn proper form and practice. I’m not sure what’s so hard to believe about that. I’ve never said crossbows aren’t faster and easier to become proficient with. In fact, I’ve stated that they are. Who cares. 

I’m not sure what your scope paragraph has to do with. 

You can use a bipod, they make mounts that work off your stabilizer. Have I seen Guys use them? Not in person, but the point is, you can use them. Read what I said In its context, don’t cherry pick things. 

Why wouldnt you hang it up? I like To have my hands free to do things like glass, have a drink, have a snack, itch my leg, etc. Plus I need To be able to get up once in a while, maybe turn around and look behind me? Crossbows do not lay flat across your lap like a rifle does. Why would you ask such a silly question. Nobody gets in a stand and sits there facing one direction and never moves lol.

I do Not care about rests and how you can or can’t use them. I do not Care that people do not have to practice as much with crossbows. Bottom line is, if you don’t have the skills to get close enough to put an arrow through an actual live deer, it doesn’t matter what kind of bow you have. A crossbow is not magic, and it’s not a gun. 

[WNYBuckHunter]

1 hour ago, Belo said:

as we've said elentybillion times. a compound can be just as accurate as a crossbow. but yes lets use the redneck blind example. First of all they're not cheap, or easy to get into your favorite spot, but typically found near open fields. So lets say i have this blind setup. With a good rest and scope I'm confident out to 50 or even 60, possibly more on a good stationary deer. I can feel comfortable off my bipod at these distances after a weekend of crossbow practice. Agree?

Now take the compound hunter. Yes he can also shoot at these ranges, but most likely after lots and lots of practice. The average swinging dick and forum member here doesn't have the time or ability for this so we're pretty much limited to 30-40 tops. Considering the average ny hunter, your redneck blind setup is just more lethal for the average hunter equipped with a crossbow. 

and i suppose it does bug the compound or recurve hunter to see a pic of some guy with a nice buck he shot at 50 yards out of his blind. I know i'm not alone in this feeling, and I know not every hunter feels this way either. I'm just being brutally honest on why I have always preferred to see archery left alone. the playing field is not equal and it doesn't feel like archery to me. all these pics of crossbows pointing out of ground blinds... idk man. just doesn't feel right. nothing scientific or factual there. I'm sure as time passes it'll feel normal. 

I just Don’t see 10 yards, which is about all the difference in yardage I would Shoot, as a huge advantage. I do Understand what you are saying though. I just Don’t really mind if someone shoots a deer with a weapon that has a bit of an advantage over what I shoot my deer with as long as they have practiced at that range and aren’t just taking a Hail Mary shot because they think their weapon can do it. 

[chas0218]

1 hour ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

no different than a rifle. is a bench rest 22 lr as lethal as a -06  back woods beater at 100 yards?

In the right hands both just as lethal. According you and others the argument (lack of a better term) is the compound and crossbow are equivalent.

I can't believe I'm getting sucked into this. I tried to stay away.

Edited November 9, 2017 by chas0218

[WNYBuckHunter]

19 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

In the right hands both just as lethal. According you and others the argument (lack of a better term) is the compound and crossbow are equivalent.

I can't believe I'm getting sucked into this. I tried to stay away.

Where are you seeing anyone say they are equivalent? Similar, yes. The same, no. Are they both archery equipment? Yep. 

[NYBowhunter]

 From what I have read here i cant beleive hunters would  actually get upset because they might see someone with a nice buck they took with a crossbow at 50 yards? Why get upset, how would that ever impact your hunting? Why not just be happy for that guy/gal. Man, people should really only worry what they are doing and stop being so concerned how others take deer, as long as its legal have at it.

[WNYBuckHunter]

2 hours ago, Belo said:

also wondering why we don't just start with rifle on 10/1 if we're going for the most effective weapons? why not airguns during archery too?

 

Because it’s still archery season, and I believe It should stay that way. As long as an arrow with a broad head is fired off of a string and powered by energy stored in the limbs, it’s archery. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

In the right hands both just as lethal. According you and others the argument (lack of a better term) is the compound and crossbow are equivalent.
I can't believe I'm getting sucked into this. I tried to stay away.

I’ve never said they are equivalent. I do think they are archery equipment and NOT the “ gun” many are claiming. I do think in terms of effectiveness and advantage they aren’t any further ahead of a compound than a compound is ahead of a recurve or long bow.

[Five Seasons]

50 minutes ago, NYBowhunter said:

 From what I have read here i cant beleive hunters would  actually get upset because they might see someone with a nice buck they took with a crossbow at 50 yards? Why get upset, how would that ever impact your hunting? Why not just be happy for that guy/gal. Man, people should really only worry what they are doing and stop being so concerned how others take deer, as long as its legal have at it.

you're getting "upset" confused with more of a "aw man, this thing is different than i'm used to and it kind of bums me out".

Riddle me this. You put in hours in the offseason growing plots, putting in stands and scouting. You hunt hard all of bow and it just doesn't work out. Your neighbor does none of this and walks out his back door and shoots the big 10 you were targeting with his crossbow. Now he did it all legally without any of the work. You're happy because he scored, but deep down you're not just a little annoyed? Purely a hypothetical and not one i think many archers are proud that they have, but that doesn't make the feeling go away. 

You all can think a lot of things about me, but being brutally honest is something i have always been. It's tough to put in the time and effort it takes to be successful with a compound and see an influx of a different weapon into the season... sometimes bringing a different hunter along with it. 

[moog5050]

4 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I’ve never said they are equivalent. I do think they are archery equipment and NOT the “ gun” many are claiming. I do think in terms of effectiveness and advantage they aren’t any further ahead of a compound than a compound is ahead of a recurve or long bow.

IMO compound is much further ahead of a recurve than a crossbow is ahead of a compound.  I practice a ton with the recurve and am hunting with my compound now because I don't have my A game with the recurve at the moment despite all my practice.  

[njg0621]

1) Do you support Full Inclusion of Crossbows into the NY Bow Season? No
2) Do you want to see the arbitrary restrictions on Draw Weight and Limb Width removed? No
3) Do you believe crossbows should be permitted to be used by everyone in all Archery Only areas? No
4) Do you believe we should be using the Bow Privilege instead of the Muzzleloader Privilege? No
5) Are you a current 2018 NYCC Member? No

[Culvercreek hunt club]

3 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

IMO compound is much further ahead of a recurve than a crossbow is ahead of a compound.  I practice a ton with the recurve and am hunting with my compound now because I don't have my A game with the recurve at the moment despite all my practice.  

I can see that. I was trying to be somewhat accommodating...lol

[moog5050]

4 minutes ago, Belo said:

you're getting "upset" confused with more of a "aw man, this thing is different than i'm used to and it kind of bums me out".

Riddle me this. You put in hours in the offseason growing plots, putting in stands and scouting. You hunt hard all of bow and it just doesn't work out. Your neighbor does none of this and walks out his back door and shoots the big 10 you were targeting with his crossbow. Now he did it all legally without any of the work. You're happy because he scored, but deep down you're not just a little annoyed? Purely a hypothetical and not one i think many archers are proud that they have, but that doesn't make the feeling go away. 

You all can think a lot of things about me, but being brutally honest is something i have always been. It's tough to put in the time and effort it takes to be successful with a compound and see an influx of a different weapon into the season... sometimes bringing a different hunter along with it. 

I appreciate the honesty.   And I understand your point.  But I suppose you have the option of jumping in with a crossbow if you like or just take on the greater challenge and shoot the bow. Do what makes you happy.  I really don't care at all what the neighbor is doing.  Just my opinion.  

[moog5050]

4 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I can see that. I was trying to be somewhat accommodating...lol

I might break that recurve out tomorrow.  Never used it with snow on the ground!

[NYBowhunter]

16 minutes ago, Belo said:

you're getting "upset" confused with more of a "aw man, this thing is different than i'm used to and it kind of bums me out".

Riddle me this. You put in hours in the offseason growing plots, putting in stands and scouting. You hunt hard all of bow and it just doesn't work out. Your neighbor does none of this and walks out his back door and shoots the big 10 you were targeting with his crossbow. Now he did it all legally without any of the work. You're happy because he scored, but deep down you're not just a little annoyed? Purely a hypothetical and not one i think many archers are proud that they have, but that doesn't make the feeling go away. 

You all can think a lot of things about me, but being brutally honest is something i have always been. It's tough to put in the time and effort it takes to be successful with a compound and see an influx of a different weapon into the season... sometimes bringing a different hunter along with it. 

Its funny Belo your hypothetical  scenario is exactly my situation.  I do a TON  of work to my property  ( mind you it takes me 3 1/2 hrs to get there, one way) and I take my hunting very serious (i owe it to the animals). My neighbor does absolutely  nothing to his property other than selective timber harvests and reaps the benefits of all my hard work year after year (but so do I). On the flip side i also benefit from his property as a bedding area. At times i get the big one and others he does. That will never change what i want to do to my property nor do i see any jealousy from what he kills. We offer each other a hand with dragging from time to time, but what he does or what he gets has no bearing on my hunting attitude. If i had to worry in the least about what others kill i would have given up on hunting a long time ago. Have confidence in your ability, work hard, put in the time and dont give a shit what others around you are doing (as long as legal) , that my friend is the key. Ive had family and friends alike get jealous of my kills ( i can see it in their eyes and facial expressions), i never understood that mentality.  

[Jamoke]

Anyone shooting a deer past 40yds with an xbow is tempting fate and completely nuts. Too much string jumping going on past 40. Wanna see a bunch of wounded deer, shoot past 40yds. Inside 30yds though, it's a done deal 95% of the time unlike the compound. Put an xbow in the hands of the inexperienced hunter with the mindset of shooting to 60yds is trouble, but I'd still like to see full inclusion.

[Buckmaster7600]

Anyone shooting a deer past 40yds with an xbow is tempting fate and completely nuts. Too much string jumping going on past 40. Wanna see a bunch of wounded deer, shoot past 40yds. Inside 30yds though, it's a done deal 95% of the time unlike the compound. Put an xbow in the hands of the inexperienced hunter with the mindset of shooting to 60yds is trouble, but I'd still like to see full inclusion.

My experience with an Xbow has been the opposite 20-30yds deer jump string because they are loud. Over 30 I think they are far enough away that they don't "jump" because it's not as close of a threat. That being said I won't shoot an alert deer over 30yds with either verticals bow or Xbow but a deer that has no idea I'm there I have no problem shooting either at distances over that if I have a clear lane. The only deer I ever wounded with a xbow was a 22yd shot on a doe that had me pegged she jumped string and I hit her high in the shoulder I was able to get right on her trail and kill her a half our later.


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[Jamoke]

On 11/8/2017 at 2:36 PM, WNYBuckHunter said:

You can put a scope and bipod on a vertical bow (neither are necessary for a crossbow), and most use a mechanical release with a trigger on their compounds. So yeah, stock and safety are the only gun specific items on a crossbow.

Listen, I got busted by the buck I shot on Saturday trying to get my crossbow off the hook, I also got lucky the farmer at the road made a loud noise by chance and took the bucks attention off of me. Thats the only reason he ended up with my tag on him. Let me tell you, getting the crossbow off the hook is harder than my vertical bow, and getting it on target is not as easy as you seem to think it is. The scope is actually a bit of a hindrance at 20 yards, as it took longer to get the deer in the scope than it does to get my vertical bow sight on it. I also had to double check that my limbs were not going to smack the tree next to me (stand is in a clump tree), and had I not leaned back a bit, it would have. Sorry, but there simply was more movement involved than with my compound.

Laying the crossbow on my lap the whole time? No freaking way, its too bulky and awkward.

You do make it sound like a "chore" to use an xbow, but you were not the only one. 

[Jamoke]

4 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

My experience with an Xbow has been the opposite 20-30yds deer jump string because they are loud. Over 30 I think they are far enough away that they don't "jump" because it's not as close of a threat. That being said I won't shoot an alert deer over 30yds with either verticals bow or Xbow but a deer that has no idea I'm there I have no problem shooting either at distances over that if I have a clear lane. The only deer I ever wounded with a xbow was a 22yd shot on a doe that had me pegged she jumped string and I hit her high in the shoulder I was able to get right on her trail and kill her a half our later.


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I shot a deer yesterday under 20yds and as soon as my xbow made that "slap" sound it had already passed through the deer. Anytime with an xbow or a compound if a deer has me pegged I aim lower because they will flinch.

[WNYBuckHunter]

1 hour ago, Jamoke said:

You do make it sound like a "chore" to use an xbow, but you were not the only one. 

I can get my compound off the hook with one hand on the grip, so all I have to do is get it into position, clip my release on and draw. The crossbow is more awkward to get off the hook and get your hands on the grip and forearm and get it pointed at the deer. Just illustrating that it isnt as easy as some try and make it out to be, thats all.

[Buckmaster7600]

I can get my compound off the hook with one hand on the grip, so all I have to do is get it into position, clip my release on and draw. The crossbow is more awkward to get off the hook and get your hands on the grip and forearm and get it pointed at the deer. Just illustrating that it isnt as easy as some try and make it out to be, thats all.

What kind of hook do you use? With an Xbow I use a really long one that's 3 sections so the Xbow is directly over my strong shoulder, pick off the hook with pistol grip basically same movements as with bow.

 

 

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[WNYBuckHunter]

2 hours ago, Belo said:

you're getting "upset" confused with more of a "aw man, this thing is different than i'm used to and it kind of bums me out".

Riddle me this. You put in hours in the offseason growing plots, putting in stands and scouting. You hunt hard all of bow and it just doesn't work out. Your neighbor does none of this and walks out his back door and shoots the big 10 you were targeting with his crossbow. Now he did it all legally without any of the work. You're happy because he scored, but deep down you're not just a little annoyed? Purely a hypothetical and not one i think many archers are proud that they have, but that doesn't make the feeling go away. 

You all can think a lot of things about me, but being brutally honest is something i have always been. It's tough to put in the time and effort it takes to be successful with a compound and see an influx of a different weapon into the season... sometimes bringing a different hunter along with it. 

I would be glad for him. Bummed that the deer is gone and I can no longer hunt it, but thats about it.

Let me ask you this...You put in hours in the offseason growing plots, putting in stands and scouting. You hunt hard all of bow and it just doesn't work out. Your neighbor does none of this and walks out his back door and shoots the big 10 you were targeting with his compound. Now he did it all legally without any of the work. You're happy because he scored, but deep down you're not just a little annoyed?

[WNYBuckHunter]

27 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

What kind of hook do you use? With an Xbow I use a really long one that's 3 sections so the Xbow is directly over my strong shoulder, pick off the hook with pistol grip basically same movements as with bow.

 

 

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I use the same hooks as I do with my compound, usually just a small simple bow hook. Most of my sets are in clump trees, so you have multiple trunks. I try to set them up so that I can put a hook on a trunk thats off to the side, close to the stand. I am not a fan of having my bow hang away from the tree like with those sectioned hooks. I will see if I can find a pic of one of our clump tree sets.

[genesee_mohican]

Crossbow opened last weekend and I saw zero uptick in the number of hunters out in my area. This week had great conditions for deer movement, we have a ton of deer in 8M, something like 7 bucks per square mile in my town with thousands of acres of public land, and I saw very few hunters as I took rides before and after work this week. Apparently, there's no mad rush to get out with a crossbow.

 Also, crossbows are similar to compounds when it comes to technology. The best compound and crossbow makers in the world have worked for years to get better and any progress in that area is slow and limited. On top of that, NYS has restrictions on draw weight, width and more to keep things toned down. I don't see a semi auto, air pressure driven, fire breathing super sonic crossbow in the works in our lifetime. 

Choose the recurve, compound or crossbow of your choice and enjoy the hunt!  In 10 days the slugs and rifled bullets will be harvesting game. The deer won't be any more or less dead when they are harvested and the records show that since crossbow started, there has been very little increase in the harvest during early bow season.

Good hunting!

[wolc123]

2 hours ago, Jamoke said:

Anyone shooting a deer past 40yds with an xbow is tempting fate and completely nuts. Too much string jumping going on past 40. Wanna see a bunch of wounded deer, shoot past 40yds. Inside 30yds though, it's a done deal 95% of the time unlike the compound. Put an xbow in the hands of the inexperienced hunter with the mindset of shooting to 60yds is trouble, but I'd still like to see full inclusion.

Have you ever shot at a deer with a vertical bow or a crossbow at over 40 yards ?   That is beyond the "danger zone" in which a deer will react to the sound of a bow's release.   I killed my first crossbow buck at 59 yards and he never moved until the bolt pierced his heart.  The last move he made on his own was a fall to the ground, about 40 yards from where he had stood when hit.  I would be interested in knowing what your basis for that claim is ?    I might just be "nuts" though, according to a few others  here.     

Edited November 9, 2017 by wolc123

[Core]

4 hours ago, NYBowhunter said:

 From what I have read here i cant beleive hunters would  actually get upset because they might see someone with a nice buck they took with a crossbow at 50 yards? Why get upset, how would that ever impact your hunting? Why not just be happy for that guy/gal. Man, people should really only worry what they are doing and stop being so concerned how others take deer, as long as its legal have at it.

I'm surprised you'd question how it would impact another's hunting. The fact that buck no longer exists would.

Last couple years (not this one thank God) I had to hunt public land. It was hard with very few deer, and that became even worse with gun season. Certainly as you opened up availability you'll get increased pressure. Bow is nice because other than those who physically can't do it anymore, it separates the casual from the determined. Bow only provided me a way to increase odds on public land.