Trying Rage 2 blade chisel tip

[chas0218]

I don't want to start a mechanical vs fixed argument so if you comment please don't try and argue the pros and cons or bash one vs the other. With that out of the way I have never shot a rage I haven't really trusted mechanical BHs. My current fixed is a 1" cutting diamter 3 blade. Can I take shots like you would with fixed heads? I know my fixed heads and how stout they are but I'm not sure about these mechanical BHs. I have shot deer facing straight on hitting the spine dropping them in the tracks, and slicing the jugular in half, I have taken 50 yard shots with good penetration (half the arrow sticking out) with my fixed BH. I'm just a little concerned that these won't perform and will loose deer. Currently I'm shooting 75gr. fixed and these will be 100 gr. mechanical. My current arrow is 368grs. with the 75gr. head with the 100gr. head it will be 393gr. will my arrow have enough punch to operate these heads properly? Right now at 40 yards or less I can get a pass thru with broadside shots and only hitting a rib on one side. 

Please someone reassure me that I'm not making a mistake moving to these rage. I like the idea of big wound channels on good and bad shots. My thought is the more stuff that gets cut the more likely you are to find the animal on a bad shot. The main reason why I'm switching is because my heads are no longer made and my stock pile is almost gone.

[jjb4900]

I've been using them for about three season's....while I have had great success with them and couldn't be happier, I feel they wouldn't hold up well if they were to hit a heavier bone. I've always had complete pass through with my broadside shots and have broken ribs on both entrance and exit...however the blades are usually damaged and not usable a second time.

[chas0218]

4 minutes ago, jjb4900 said:

I've been using them for about three season's....while I have had great success with them and couldn't be happier, I feel they wouldn't hold up well if they were to hit a heavier bone. I've always had complete pass through with my broadside shots and have broken ribs on both entrance and exit...however the blades are usually damaged and not usable a second time.

Good to hear. I'm not looking to be able to re-use , I can't do it with my fixed. But the biggest thing was just hitting bones and the head still doing the job. On average how long are your shots, and how heavy are your arrows?

Edited October 5, 2017 by chas0218

[brownclown]

just my opinion but i had been a long time rage user having switched last year after having both blades break off. i was using rage hypodermics . My poor shot was primarily gut and rib having contacted nothing else. No significant bone contact of any sort yet both blades were broken off. i posted about this at the time and have several replies from others who had similar experiences.   I have switched to Grim reaper carni four. and feel much more confident. They fly great out 2 50yrds (max i tested) and have no worries of them failing to open as lots report from Rage. i did lots of research on the grim reapers and have had a friend using them for years. he uses the 3 blade style primarily the white tail model and the holes are ridiculous.

[LET EM GROW]

Ive used Rage since they came out, Have not lost a deer and some were not the best of hits either. Ive blown through both shoulder blades as well. I have a pass through nearly every single time,unless striking bone. I do not take front facing shots so i will not comment on that. But 2 years ago I hit a spine accidentally with the Hypos, pulled out the BH and it was in perfect shape still, sent it through a 200lb buck 2 weeks later. I use the Hypos, and love them!  Idk why but im not a fan of chisel tip broadheads. I like razor sharp tips like the hypos. I feel the chisel tips are too blunt shaped without "real cutting edges at the tip" even if they have a decent point. I used original 2 blades and now the hypos for years. Love them. 

[jjb4900]

12 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

Good to hear. I'm not looking to be able to re-use , I can't do it with my fixed. But the biggest thing was just hitting bones and the head still doing the job. On average how long are your shots, and how heavy are your arrows?

total weight is right around 375.....average shot is 20-25 yards.

[Robhuntandfish]

7 minutes ago, brownclown said:

just my opinion but i had been a long time rage user having switched last year after having both blades break off. i was using rage hypodermics . My poor shot was primarily gut and rib having contacted nothing else. No significant bone contact of any sort yet both blades were broken off. i posted about this at the time and have several replies from others who had similar experiences.   I have switched to Grim reaper carni four. and feel much more confident. They fly great out 2 50yrds (max i tested) and have no worries of them failing to open as lots report from Rage. i did lots of research on the grim reapers and have had a friend using them for years. he uses the 3 blade style primarily the white tail model and the holes are ridiculous.

you just hit my thoughts on this over the last few days.  I have only lost 2 deer ever and they were both with the rage heads.  One was last year and i thought it was a winning shot. I even had a nockturnal on it and thought the shot was good when it ran off.  6 hours of searching the next day and no deer. This year same thing except 7 hours.  I have done a lot of deer tracking and helped out buddies many times.  But these are the only deer I have ever lost.  I used to shoot the grim reapers but couldnt find them 2 years ago and needed blades so grabbed the rages .  Yup this morn changed them all back to the reapers.  Now a field point will kill a deer if you shot it in the right spot of course, but the rage I shot on Monday's deer i couldnt find had one blade all bent and I think it didnt penetrate as well cause one blade hit a bone.  Doe was quartering but should have been down.  Might be coincidence but only ever losing two deer and both were with rages ---- makes me switch. 

[jjb4900]

Honestly, I avoid shots that are likely to hit heavier bone..even with a fixed the odds of less then ideal results are likely.....but ribs aren't an issue as far as I'm concerned.

[OtiscoPaul]

1 hour ago, chas0218 said:

Good to hear. I'm not looking to be able to re-use , I can't do it with my fixed. But the biggest thing was just hitting bones and the head still doing the job. On average how long are your shots, and how heavy are your arrows?

They open great entry wounds with standard weight arrows and sometimes they even exit!

Seriously they are usually (but not always) great on perfect shots and the blood trails and wounds are huge

but bone...forget about it unless you are shooting 500 grains and 15% upfront and even then probably forget it on the thick ridge parts of the scapula.

My theory is they use all the momentum opening a giant wound and then give up.  I harvested many deer with them, but lost 1 that was a perfect shot inside 15 yards and found the carcass a week later to confirm lack of penetration.

I switched to 520 grain arrows with 200 grains fixed head+insert this season and I blew through the thickest part of the scapula ridge complete pass through arrow and broadhead unphased deer DRT 10 yards.

Another thing I noticed after many harvests was that they always loudly "popped" the deer open and the deer always bolted even with a perfect broadside double lung shots.  My harvest this weekend barely even knew he was hit and teetered over.

The rage are great on perfect and even some marginal shots because of the giant entry wound and cutting diameter but they are not bone breakers quite the opposite.

 

Edited October 5, 2017 by OtiscoPaul

[jjb4900]

This was last year, about 25 yards Rage 100gr Chisel Tip, complete pass through...may have caught a little shoulder blade, don't quite remember.

Edited October 5, 2017 by jjb4900

[moog5050]

I know many have complained about them, but my experience has been spectacular.  Huge holes on entrance and exit.  That said, I always check to be sure the blades are properly seated in the collar before I nock the arrow as they can get pulled loose.  And I shoot a heavy DW with 520g arrows.  I have no idea whether your DW and 393g will have similar results but do recommend you check very arrow before nocking it.

[TACC]

This was last year, about 25 yards Rage 100gr Chisel Tip, complete pass through...may have caught a little shoulder blade, don't quite remember.

That is a huge hole, I'm thinking blood trail was easy to follow

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[jjb4900]

3 minutes ago, TACC said:

That is a huge hole, I'm thinking blood trail was easy to follow

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yeah, it was easy to follow.....still went about 100 yards with that shot.

[chas0218]

2 hours ago, moog5050 said:

I know many have complained about them, but my experience has been spectacular.  Huge holes on entrance and exit.  That said, I always check to be sure the blades are properly seated in the collar before I nock the arrow as they can get pulled loose.  And I shoot a heavy DW with 520g arrows.  I have no idea whether your DW and 393g will have similar results but do recommend you check very arrow before nocking it.

I'm shooting a 26.5" arrow at 62lbs. draw. with a 318gr. arrow I was chronographed at 300 fps. If you do the math estimating 15fps drop based on the 75 gr. of added arrow weight it is right around 71 ft.lbs. of kinetic energy.

2 hours ago, jjb4900 said:

This was last year, about 25 yards Rage 100gr Chisel Tip, complete pass through...may have caught a little shoulder blade, don't quite remember.

That is a giant hole, My little 3 blades would never make a hole near that although I had a hole almost 2" wide with a hard quartering away shot.

2 hours ago, OtiscoPaul said:

They open great entry wounds with standard weight arrows and sometimes they even exit!

Seriously they are usually (but not always) great on perfect shots and the blood trails and wounds are huge

but bone...forget about it unless you are shooting 500 grains and 15% upfront and even then probably forget it on the thick ridge parts of the scapula.

My theory is they use all the momentum opening a giant wound and then give up.  I harvested many deer with them, but lost 1 that was a perfect shot inside 15 yards and found the carcass a week later to confirm lack of penetration.

I switched to 520 grain arrows with 200 grains fixed head+insert this season and I blew through the thickest part of the scapula ridge complete pass through arrow and broadhead unphased deer DRT 10 yards.

Another thing I noticed after many harvests was that they always loudly "popped" the deer open and the deer always bolted even with a perfect broadside double lung shots.  My harvest this weekend barely even knew he was hit and teetered over.

The rage are great on perfect and even some marginal shots because of the giant entry wound and cutting diameter but they are not bone breakers quite the opposite.

 

My arrows aren't remotely close to that weight and don't plan to go that heavy, hopefully they will still work for me.

4 hours ago, brownclown said:

just my opinion but i had been a long time rage user having switched last year after having both blades break off. i was using rage hypodermics . My poor shot was primarily gut and rib having contacted nothing else. No significant bone contact of any sort yet both blades were broken off. i posted about this at the time and have several replies from others who had similar experiences.   I have switched to Grim reaper carni four. and feel much more confident. They fly great out 2 50yrds (max i tested) and have no worries of them failing to open as lots report from Rage. i did lots of research on the grim reapers and have had a friend using them for years. he uses the 3 blade style primarily the white tail model and the holes are ridiculous.

Are the 3 blade legal in NY? I have heard good things about the grim reapers, I was going to go with the QAD Exodus and still might if these don't work out. My buddy said he will buy them off me if I don't like them. I got a killer deal on a set of 24 rages for $25 no box.

3 hours ago, LET EM GROW said:

Ive used Rage since they came out, Have not lost a deer and some were not the best of hits either. Ive blown through both shoulder blades as well. I have a pass through nearly every single time,unless striking bone. I do not take front facing shots so i will not comment on that. But 2 years ago I hit a spine accidentally with the Hypos, pulled out the BH and it was in perfect shape still, sent it through a 200lb buck 2 weeks later. I use the Hypos, and love them!  Idk why but im not a fan of chisel tip broadheads. I like razor sharp tips like the hypos. I feel the chisel tips are too blunt shaped without "real cutting edges at the tip" even if they have a decent point. I used original 2 blades and now the hypos for years. Love them. 

Good to hear, I have heard a lot of horror stories about Rage BHs not sure if it is because so many use them or just because they don't work. I have a few friends that bowhunt and rage is all they use. They too have used them for years and haven't had any complaints.

 

[moog5050]

I have no study to confirm but my experience suggests that KE is less important that momentum.  My trad bows easily pass through and have lousy KE in comparison to any compound.  But they have good or better momentum compared to compounds primarily due to the use of 600-700g arrows.  

[Core]

4 hours ago, jjb4900 said:

This was last year, about 25 yards Rage 100gr Chisel Tip, complete pass through...may have caught a little shoulder blade, don't quite remember.

This thread is about bow hunting not 50 BMG deer hunting

chas, it sounds like you do very well with fixed. Why are you looking to switch to mechanical? 

Edited October 5, 2017 by Core

[phade]

I have had great experience with grim reapers. I shoot similar specs as you and do pretty well with them. My standard head of choice is the Slick Trick 100 gr standard, but I only use that in a blind situation nowadays.

[NFA-ADK]

Rage are awesome.  Only issue I think can affect them is if you use the  quick spin fletchings.  We had a user here last year that had a problem with the blades braking off.  

Otherwise they are great and make a really large hole.  Good luck. 

[OtiscoPaul]

In my opinion it's late to change anything you are doing anyway so just focus on hitting them through the soft stuff w/in 20-25 yards.  Rage 2 blade are great mechanicals especially when you outfitted like moog.

If you want to know it will break bone every time you need a heavier arrow with a lot of FOC.

As far Mo vs KE and a lot of other things over my head here are Ashby's thoughts:

http://www.grizzlystik.com/Ashby-On-Momentum-Kinetic-Energy-Arrow-Penetration-W19.aspx

Edited October 5, 2017 by OtiscoPaul

[Core]

Just bought a pack. $25 today only at dicks/field. $30 in store at field through oct 7. Come with practice tip. When I look at my front opening mechanicals from Walmart I don't like how they don't seem to open until through the deer and I am holding that responsible for a despicable blood trail on the last one I hit.


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[Jmp209]

I personally won't ever use them again. I've had mostly bad experiences with rage. I got a pass through on a bear a few years ago with a regular rage 2 blade and it only made it about 125 yards before piling up but it took me hours to trail it that far because of the lack of blood. That's the best experience I had with them. I switched to the chisel tip and shot a buck at 15 yards. It sounded like a solid hit but the deer only went a few yards out of range and stood there looking back for a couple minutes before snorting and taking off. I searched all over for any sign of a hit and scoured the direction he went with no sign of hair, blood or anything. A year later I found my arrow about 200 yards from where I'd shot, in the direction the deer took off. It had to have gotten next to no penetration and just stuck in him for that distance before falling out. I shot a buck again last year with them and ended up being a little far back, in the liver. This shot was from the ground so no extreme angle and through a relatively easy part of the body to get penetration. Arrow barely poked through the other side. With the exact same setup, only shooting a muzzy instead of rage I've never had a deer stop an arrow. That's just my personal experience with them, I'm sure others have nothing but praise for them.

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[Core]

What happens when these hit rib? If perpendicular to rib cage I could see the rear blades often hitting rib--do they jam up or temporarily slip back into the head's body?


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[Hock3y24]

Nap sling blades for me, they swivel around ribs and Devistate the vitals, I’ve confirmed this after shooting 5 deer with them.

[chrisw]

I have no study to confirm but my experience suggests that KE is less important that momentum.  My trad bows easily pass through and have lousy KE in comparison to any compound.  But they have good or better momentum compared to compounds primarily due to the use of 600-700g arrows.  

This is exactly right, KE only measures energy at the impact, not the force that keeps the arrow in motion. Momentum is the real # you should look at. That being said, last year I shot a buck at 42 yds, complete pass through with a Hypodermic. Also shot a doe in the spine at 12yds a few years ago with a Hypodermic, no damage to the head at all. You aren't making a mistake switching, put your head where it should go and you'll be all set. I've shot a lot of deer with rage heads and so have my buddies, not one broadhead failure, only operator failure.
If you're looking into other fixed heads I highly recommend Ramcats, fly amazing, penetrate like crazy and large cut. The only reason I'm not shooting them still is I cut my new arrows a bit too short for them and they come too close for comfort to my riser at full draw. I've shot deer with at least 10 different broadheads and all of the deer died, no failures. Most "failures" are because someone made a poor shot and this is the excuse they use. Using what you have confidence in is most important, not so much the head.

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[chas0218]

This thread is about bow hunting not 50 BMG deer hunting
chas, it sounds like you do very well with fixed. Why are you looking to switch to mechanical? 

Only changing because I currently shoot ultimate steel rocket 3 blades in 75gr. and my supply is abbot gone and they don't make them anymore. I would love to stay with these I have killed a lot of deer with them. I have a bunch of blades but almost out of furrels.

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