The truth about coyotes

[nyantler]

Here is a great article about coyotes and the truth about how stable family groups is a better solution than indiscriminate killing.

http://www.coyotelivesinmaine.com/coyote/understanding-ecology-and-behavior/

[Core]

Interesting. Is it backed up by research...?

I've heard farmers generally hate coyotes but I don't know why. At least if I had a crop farm I'd want them nearby as they help suppress deer population, which can damage crops.

[Jeremy K]

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/08/coyote-america-dan-flores-history-science/

 

Here is another great read on Coyotes written by Dan Flores who is an outstanding writer and researcher . He has a really good book out also on the history of animals of north america ,I cant recall the name offhand.

[Ontario Buckhunter]

Although I agree that indiscriminate killing of coyotes has an overall negative effect of their predation habits. According to the article it's a better for farmers to have coyotes with stable families because they hunt their natural prey rather than livestock. 

As hunters we are generally after the same prey as coyotes  (deer/fawns, turkeys/poults). I would think that what is prescribed in the article is counter to what our goals would generally be.

To have an actual effect on coyote predation the base population of the area would need to be decreased. The only real way to achieve this would be to aggressively trap, not just shoot one every now and then (this generally causes the population to rise).

Below is an article from Dr. Grant Woods on the subject.

http://www.growingdeer.tv/2017/07/21/deer-hunting-and-management-the-effect-of-the-changing-predator-base/

Edited November 8, 2017 by Ontario Buckhunter

[G-Man]

I find that sponges in the stomach of coyotes is very effective and wipes out whole population quickly with minimal effort or alerting them..

[Doc]

Wholesale extermination of any species probably is not something that we really want to do even if it was possible. However, here in NYS the coyote is pretty much the "top dog" on the food chain with no real controls other than man and disease. That isn't a real good situation either when there seems to be a reluctance of humans to step in as a form of population control. That only leaves massively contagious diseases to run rampant in wide-swinging uncontrolled cycles all of which has it's own set of problems for domestic and wild animals.

One thing has become apparent, and that is that try as we might, we will never wipe out the species. The best that we can hope for is to merely provide some minor control on the population which in the long run may be beneficial to the coyote itself and the surrounding critters and even our own concerns. That is the principle behind hunting/trapping from a conservation standpoint.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

6 hours ago, G-Man said:

I find that sponges in the stomach of coyotes is very effective and wipes out whole population quickly with minimal effort or alerting them..

A little "Den Work" is probably the only way to really get rid of a good number of Vermin.

[G-Man]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

Wholesale extermination of any species probably is not something that we really want to do even if it was possible. However, here in NYS the coyote is pretty much the "top dog" on the food chain with no real controls other than man and disease. That isn't a real good situation either when there seems to be a reluctance of humans to step in as a form of population control. That only leaves massively contagious diseases to run rampant in wide-swinging uncontrolled cycles all of which has it's own set of problems for domestic and wild animals.

One thing has become apparent, and that is that try as we might, we will never wipe out the species. The best that we can hope for is to merely provide some minor control on the population which in the long run may be beneficial to the coyote itself and the surrounding critters and even our own concerns. That is the principle behind hunting/trapping from a conservation standpoint.

They were eliminated once from N.Y. and could be again...

[Culvercreek hunt club]

14 hours ago, Core said:

I've heard farmers generally hate coyotes but I don't know why. At least if I had a crop farm I'd want them nearby as they help suppress deer population, which can damage crops.

Two farms I have hunted over the years had two rules. don't drive through the crops and NEVER shoot a coyote.  For the reason you stated. 

[Ontario Buckhunter]

Although they could be eliminated from N.Y., with current attitudes (not every one shoots on site) and the reduced number of hunters in the state I doubt it will ever happen.

Maybe if fur prices increase to where trapping would actually pay or if coyotes ever started encroaching on the suburbs and started attacking people's pets it would change attitudes but I doubt it for the foreseeable future.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Ontario Buckhunter

[TACC]

Two farms I have hunted over the years had two rules. don't drive through the crops and NEVER shoot a coyote.  For the reason you stated. 

Did the farmer also want you to shoot a large number of nuisance does?

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[zeus1gdsm]

http://cnycentral.com/news/local/concerned-neighbors-report-coyote-sightings-in-rome

Lots of yotes round my .

Out in the country further my buddies place has a much lower number of deer this year and what seems to be an increase in coyote activity compared to previous years.

They r out there hunting and singing every night.

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[Jeremy K]

We should eliminate all yotes ,everyone deserves to have rat Infestation. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

45 minutes ago, TACC said:

Did the farmer also want you to shoot a large number of nuisance does?

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yes

[Curmudgeon]

They've been trying to eliminate coyotes out west for more than a century, using all kinds of methods including strychnine. Besides being a bad idea, what makes you think it could be done here, now?

What would be the point anyway ? More deer? I have plenty of both coyotes and deer. I'm one of those farmers who wants them left along. After 40 years of raising sheep without a problem, I prefer the coyotes I currently have, thank you.  

 

 

Edited November 8, 2017 by Curmudgeon
Typo

[nyantler]

10 hours ago, G-Man said:

They were eliminated once from N.Y. and could be again...

Probably due to fur prices and the high amount of trapping as a living back then.

[chrisw]

Did I miss something? At what point were coyotes established in NY and then eliminated from NY!? If this is true I'd like some facts. And anyone who thinks it could be done again is a fool... Hell, some members on here complain that they're behind every tree and they can't seem to kill even one!? You will never wipe them from a landscape completely and anyone who thinks that's a good idea even if we could is flat out ignorant. They have a place in nature, the same as the deer. And no I'm not a coyote lover, in fact I take every shot I get during the season but I'm intelligent enough to realize they have their job to do too.

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[Jdubs]

15 hours ago, Doc said:

Wholesale extermination of any species probably is not something that we really want to do even if it was possible. However, here in NYS the coyote is pretty much the "top dog" on the food chain with no real controls other than man and disease. That isn't a real good situation either when there seems to be a reluctance of humans to step in as a form of population control. That only leaves massively contagious diseases to run rampant in wide-swinging uncontrolled cycles all of which has it's own set of problems for domestic and wild animals.

One thing has become apparent, and that is that try as we might, we will never wipe out the species. The best that we can hope for is to merely provide some minor control on the population which in the long run may be beneficial to the coyote itself and the surrounding critters and even our own concerns. That is the principle behind hunting/trapping from a conservation standpoint.

Not to derail, but I read this and the ever-growing fisher population has zero natural predators and is only taken by a short trapping season.  

[Curmudgeon]

1 hour ago, Jdubs said:

Not to derail, but I read this and the ever-growing fisher population has zero natural predators and is only taken by a short trapping season.  

Coyotes are self limiting. I'm not sure about Fisher but I expect they are less of a problem than some will claim. The study in Albany county found they eat mostly squirrels. They do a reasonable job of controlling porcupines too.  

[Jdubs]

10 minutes ago, Curmudgeon said:

Coyotes are self limiting. I'm not sure about Fisher but I expect they are less of a problem than some will claim. The study in Albany county found they eat mostly squirrels. They do a reasonable job of controlling porcupines too.  

Well, I can confirm this one had a squirrel for breakfast yesterday!  

[G-Man]

2 hours ago, chrisw said:

Did I miss something? At what point were coyotes established in NY and then eliminated from NY!? If this is true I'd like some facts. And anyone who thinks it could be done again is a fool... Hell, some members on here complain that they're behind every tree and they can't seem to kill even one!? You will never wipe them from a landscape completely and anyone who thinks that's a good idea even if we could is flat out ignorant. They have a place in nature, the same as the deer. And no I'm not a coyote lover, in fact I take every shot I get during the season but I'm intelligent enough to realize they have their job to do too.

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The coyote or brush wolf as it was known was eliminated in the early 1800s..  It was done by poison mostly.. And bounty system as well as deforestation on a very large scale.  And the population could be knocked down tremendously with effort by a few ..

[G-Man]

3 hours ago, nyantler said:

Probably due to fur prices and the high amount of trapping as a living back then.

Poison.. Deforestaion and. Trapping.. Work wonders. 

Of all the animals that were native to N.Y. and allowed back and then protected coyotes crazy.. Why not reintroduce elk....

[G-Man]

An open season on them during birthing  season April may would also destroy the population quickly..  Much easier as parent out looking for food to feed ever hungry pups. .. Get mom and dad or mine or the other chance of successful rearing would drop tremenously.. As for rat squirrels and rabbit fox would again fill the void..  

As for Fisher they are increasing rapidly and are the critter that get to deer quickly at my property.. I've seen at least 4 different ones while hunting .. Friend got a buck today and let it lay as he shot was back a bit far.. Was a wise choice waited 6 hours and lost a bit from deer to fisher( tracks don't lie) ass was eaten from Bung hole. Tail missing and hind quarter from inside hide..lost about a 1/4 of that ham.. Deer was liver and gut shot.. Best buck he ever got.. But looks weird with out tail...lol he's still happy but 1st time I've had a deer damaged before it was found and several have been left overnight..

[crappyice]

Well, I can confirm this one had a squirrel for breakfast yesterday!  

Can I borrow that fisher for my 3s spot- i need some tree rats gone. Hopefully he likes chipmunks too- I'd fatten that fisher up good in one day!!!


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[Doewhacker]

8 hours ago, G-Man said:

The coyote or brush wolf as it was known was eliminated in the early 1800s..  It was done by poison mostly.. And bounty system as well as deforestation on a very large scale.  And the population could be knocked down tremendously with effort by a few ..

I found this claim odd so I looked into it and it turns out Coyotes weren’t seen in the North east until the early 1900’s and more widely from about 1930 on. So basically I’m saying you are wrong. 

 

Wolves were eliminated early on but not Coyotes because they simply weren’t here. 

 

http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/9359.html

 

http://www.esf.edu/pubprog/brochure/coyote/coyote.htm