Relying on tracker/dogs is out of control!

[New York Hillbilly]

Oh well, time to put this to bed and go play with grandson, and think of happier things. :  )  Looks like finally beating this reaction the flu shot, starting to breathe again, and now I need to rent me a car a car and drive to my woodlot to check on some stands before opening day. Good luck to all, and safe hunting!

[steve863]

9 minutes ago, New York Hillbilly said:

Nor do I, but you nobody wanted the reputation of being the person repeatedly wounding deer, or hunting with those with the attitude

 

People with that philosophy were not welcomed in any deer camp, or game club I ever knew of or was associated with, and in fact I was an officer for many years of our local F&G club, as well as at the county level, 

As they say, talk is cheap, and a picture is worth a thousand words. The seeming endless pictures of deer shot in hind quarters, guts, head, neck and everyplace other than where you are taught to shoot one from day one, tells an entirely different story. 

 

Well, I guess what I would agree with you on is that talk is cheap.  It always has been.  Plenty of people claim that they will only shoot deer of a certain size, etc. and then when the season is winding down and they haven't connected on anything they end up taking something way smaller just so they don't end the season deerless.  What one says they will do, and what one ends up doing are two different animals.  Also, never discount the LIES a hunter can tell.  Just because you didn't welcome people in your hunting club that had the reputation of wounding deer doesn't mean you didn't have people wounding deer.  Someone claiming to have shot and missed a deer could have very well wounded a deer.  If you looked down on the guy who did wound deer, he was probably more apt to lie and not tell you that he did actually wound a deer.  He may have said.  "yeah I shot, but shot way over him, or a limb deflected my shot".  Go prove it one way or the other.

 

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

32 minutes ago, New York Hillbilly said:

People with that philosophy were not welcomed in any deer camp, or game club I ever knew of or was associated with, and in fact I was an officer for many years of our local F&G club, as well as at the county level, 

 

 

So in these camps you belonged to or had knowledge of, what did they do? Public flogging of anyone that wounded a deer?

[growalot]

13 hours ago, Core said:

Ridoculous.

I have lost deer but I have never taken a shot I didn't think I could reliably make. No hail Mary's.

Maybe these services need to charge a fee or something (or more if they don't already and I don't think they do).



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It is volunteer but my God if someone calls them out they'd  best have some Cash on hand and donate deer recovery or not...A ll so put them on the XMAS gratuity  list.the Web site takes credit cards and pay pal.

[helmut in the bush]

Another thing people are guilty of is looking for the deer right after the shot.If it's a marginal shot and it's pushed, the tracking is so much harder, they need to lay down for a while 

[New York Hillbilly]

19 hours ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

When i have been engaged  talking about topics like maximum hunting distance and ethical range, I have actually had bow hunters tell me that their range is "x" (25,30,40,45 whatever). And wouldn't dream of pushing it beyond that.... (wait for it, wait for it)..."unless it was a really really big buck".

 

I about lose my mind at that point. 

I was invited as a guest to a couple deer camps in he past, but never belonged to one myself. Owning my own property since the early 90's, I never had the need to join a club. I did however associate with many guys who did belong to deer camps.  When a deer was wounded as far as I have seen everyone chipped in to try and help in the recovery, sort of like how it is handled on my land. No flogging to the best of my knowledge, but with some of those guys, who knows!   : )    My point was actually was referencing the same type of guy you said makes you lose your mind. In fact, it is the same type of guy you mention that year after year comes to my house wanting to track his latest wounded deer. Same guys almost every time.  It gets old after a few years, and I have gone so far as tracked other peoples deer on my land, help gut them in the dark, and even let them use my four wheelers and/or tractor to carry back to their truck parked in my driveway. Like I said though, it has gotten old! (like me...:  ) )

 

2 hours ago, steve863 said:

Also, never discount the LIES a hunter can tell.  Just because you didn't welcome people in your hunting club that had the reputation of wounding deer doesn't mean you didn't have people wounding deer.  Someone claiming to have shot and missed a deer could have very well wounded a deer. 

Sad but true when it comes to people lying I guess. I said the same thing earlier, only the shooter knows what real went down. Also, like I said before, bad stuff can happen under the best of circumstances, so I'm not suggesting you beat down someone who has wounded a deer. I would say help find it, learn from the situation, and try not to repeat it.  I do believe  the person who makes a habit of it though, will likely earn a reputation for being that type of hunter. And if caught lying about it, as most liars eventually are found out, I can't imagine anyone wanting to invite such a person to hunt on your land, or in your deer camp.  

I will now again wish you all happy, safe hunting, and hope to see lots of pictures and read your stories, after Opening Day, my rental awaits. Peace all!

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Sad but true when it comes to people lying I guess. I said the same thing earlier, only the shooter knows what real went down. Also, like I said before, bad stuff can happen under the best of circumstances, so I'm not suggesting you beat down someone who has wounded a deer. I would say help find it, learn from the situation, and try not to repeat it.  I do believe  the person who makes a habit of it though, will likely earn a reputation for being that type of hunter. And if caught lying about it, as most liars eventually are found out, I can't imagine anyone wanting to invite such a person to hunt on your land, or in your deer camp.  
I will now again wish you all happy, safe hunting, and hope to see lots of pictures and read your stories, after Opening Day, my rental awaits. Peace all!

I wonder how much the sport becoming a solo endeavor contributes to this. I grew up hunting with a consistent group of 6-8 guys. We did as you did. Everyone chipped in and all hunting stopped until we got the deer. Kind of a pack mentality tracking and getting ahead of a wounded deer. There were very few that we didn’t end up getting. In today’s hunting culture the group or deer camp is a dying breed. I think that also effects the teaching and passing on of skills like tracking.

[LET EM GROW]

2 years ago, I used Deer Search. But I did my part in tracking him, and not looking too far with no sign to go on or without ruining the scene, so the dog could come in and track him easier. Dog found him in 20mins

I will say I'm a member of that club as well and agree with most you are saying. There i salot of it going on in that club this year. I stay in touch with the man who found my buck often and he gets upward sof 75 call per weekend... think about that one! But I think social media just makes it more visible than it ever was 10 or 20 years ago when social media hardly existed. We flat out just read it more, literally. 

We all know some people who just wing arrows through the woods, regardless of the yardage just to hope they get lucky, and connect. Or as I see more often than not.. they dont call at all knowing the deer is dead somewhere, just to leave it rot and give up. and go chase another..  Happened at my camp this weekend with one of our hit list bucks.. gut shot.. never tracked the deer per where the deer was hit... never found him and gave up.. Instead of calling in a dog in hopes to find it. Especially as big of a deer as this one was.. If it were my property i would call the dog and find it for myself.. its a flat out shame! 

[Doewhacker]

6 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I wonder how much the sport becoming a solo endeavor contributes to this. I grew up hunting with a consistent group of 6-8 guys. We did as you did. Everyone chipped in and all hunting stopped until we got the deer. Kind of a pack mentality tracking and getting ahead of a wounded deer. There were very few that we didn’t end up getting. In today’s hunting culture the group or deer camp is a dying breed. I think that also effects the teaching and passing on of skills like tracking.

That's yet another factor in this, lots and lots of people hunt solo or with one other person. If a bad hit happens sometimes you need help and input from others especially if the others have more experience.

One other thing that has an impact is lack of experience across the whole experience. Gone are the days of shooting any deer to get better at it, now guys want to wait and shoot a big one out of the gate which only increases the chance of making a mistake. Not that making a mistake on a small one is ok I just think that it is less chance if getting buck fever on a 90# doe than there is on a 150 buck.

[steve863]

16 minutes ago, Doewhacker said:

 

One other thing that has an impact is lack of experience across the whole experience. Gone are the days of shooting any deer to get better at it, now guys want to wait and shoot a big one out of the gate which only increases the chance of making a mistake. Not that making a mistake on a small one is ok I just think that it is less chance if getting buck fever on a 90# doe than there is on a 150 buck.

Oh man is this accurate!  Guys have a deer or two under their belts and then they start passing everything up waiting for that monster buck.  There is absolutely NOTHING that beats shooting at and putting deer down to build up your experience.  Shooting at targets, seeing kills on TV or playing the scenario in your head how you will nail that deer simply doesn't cut it.  Until you've got at LEAST 20 deer under your belt (probably more), you really don't have a lot of experience in my opinion.

[Doewhacker]

6 minutes ago, steve863 said:

Oh man is this accurate!  Guys have a deer or two under their belts and then they start passing everything up waiting for that monster buck.  There is absolutely NOTHING that beats shooting at and putting deer down to build up your experience.  Shooting at targets, seeing kills on TV or playing the scenario in your head how you will nail that deer simply doesn't cut it.  Until you've got at LEAST 20 deer under your belt (probably more), you really don't have a lot of experience in my opinion.

It relates back to the different stages of a hunter, those steps are important to developing skills later on.

 

https://tpwd.texas.gov/education/hunter-education/online-course/responsible-and-ethical-hunting/six-stages

[BizCT]

How about all of the wounded bucks we never hear about? There has to be a whole bunch of member who have wounded bucks this year and never said a peep about it.

[steve863]

4 minutes ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

How about all of the wounded bucks we never hear about? There has to be a whole bunch of member who have wounded bucks this year and never said a peep about it.

I guess that wouldn't technically fall under the "lying" category.  It's more like just not telling the whole truth.  LOL

[BowmanMike]

31 minutes ago, steve863 said:

Oh man is this accurate!  Guys have a deer or two under their belts and then they start passing everything up waiting for that monster buck.  There is absolutely NOTHING that beats shooting at and putting deer down to build up your experience.  Shooting at targets, seeing kills on TV or playing the scenario in your head how you will nail that deer simply doesn't cut it.  Until you've got at LEAST 20 deer under your belt (probably more), you really don't have a lot of experience in my opinion.

Phew,i think i am just at over 20 now. Only three with the bow though,and i want to get a doe or two with my bow for just that reason. But I will pass little bucks,and i passed shots on does earlier in the season because of the temps. But I agree that one really has to practice the real thing to become better at it.

I shoot a lot of practice arrows,but that is different from shooting a deer.

And on that note,i better get in the woods now...

[mowin]

2 hours ago, steve863 said:

I guess that wouldn't technically fall under the "lying" category.  It's more like just not telling the whole truth.  LOL

So someone who doesn't post about wounding a deer is not telling the whole truth?  Maybe,  just maybe, the person is sick over the fact of looking for hrs or days for a deer they didn't find. Why post about something your not proud off? 

I think that's part of the problem, there's way too many posts about the ones they didn't find. Some are proud they even hit the deer, and post how excited they are and hope they find it.  

I've lost deer, it happens. But I'm not about to go on a forum or SM to let people know. I'm sick when it happens (hasn't happened in 15 yrs, knock on wood) I usually don't hunt for a few days. 

[wolc123]

On 11/14/2017 at 2:03 PM, New York Hillbilly said:

Argue if you want, or put your head in the sand over this issue, but this is NUTS! Too ignore it is even nuttier! Since someone tagged me into the site NY Hunt Club, it is a nonstop daily occurrence, multiple (very many) people talking about wounding "Big", "biggest", "buck of a lifetime, "slobs",  that they admit to being shit shots, hurried shots, front on shots, deflection, etc., and now "need to number" for "the nearest tracker dog". Today there is even one asking pre-emptively; "I don't need now, but for when I do", "how much", actually planning for shit to go wrong. As I sit here trying to get over the "flu", I actually got from the flu shot I took before I came back to protect my 10 month old grandson, I'm left to do nothing but heal up for next weekend opener, missing out on the bow season I desperately wanted to enjoy after all my work, planning, and travel. To pass the time, I'm left reading this site and others, hoping to cheer others, and living vicariously for the time being through them as I hack up my lungs. But, now making matters worse, and my mood, are the dozen upon dozen of people admitting to what amounts to winging arrows at deer with bows and crossbows, at weird angles, out to 70 and 80 yards, moving deer, as if if they are simply lucky enough to get an arrow into the animal they can call for dog backup. If you think I'm exaggerating, take a peek at that site. Granted, there are some impressive deer being taken also by proper shot placement and recovery, but the number in the other camp is frighteningly staggering to me. Hate to rain on anyones parade here, but it IS a problem, and others are also beginning to raise noise about it. 

It is easy to get frustrated with this situation, but I do not think it has got worse lately.  We all hear about it more because of social media.  I give the folks credit who have the guts to post their mistakes and seek help from others on the internet.  Some lack the courage to do that (as we have just heard in this thread a few times), preferring to hide their shame rather than risk looking weak in front of strangers.    

There is a simple, sure-fire way out of this deal.  Figure out who controls the fate of all living things and stay on good terms (Hint : Mathew 10: 29-31).   I have recovered every deer that I have shot at over the last 12 seasons, usually within a half hour, and never in over an hour.  I make no claim on being a super-hunter however.    All of the credit goes to He who placed those blessings upon me.   The last thing I would want to do is let those blessings go to waste.   

There is more than a little bit of antler idolitry going on for sure, and that does not help the situation.   It is good to see a few of the regulars here finally waking up to that this season.   I only shoot at deer that I am at least 90 % sure that I can hit and recover, and I am extremely thankful that He has given me the extra 10% that I would have surely lost on my own.   I don't get all that many chances, and it takes about (4) average-sized deer to keep my family well fed from one season to the next.                   

[dbHunterNY]

DB , thank you . My first bow kill in '89 was my first year bow hunting was at 8 yards , all  since have been under 20 but one , that one was  25 and she piled up,in sight .
Ive lost two  in all those years and one of those I found a year later .....
They  were front quartering , but not hard , still one lunged and pushed to soon , I learned and haven't taken a front quartering shot in many years . 
I always say the " hunting " is done with the hanging of the stands , the rest is waiting for them to walk by at 15 yards .

Under 10 not on the ground isn't good. All the deer I've taken with bow have been under 25 yards too.

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