Why it’s high time to make peace with crossbow hunting

[turkeyfeathers]

Yay ! Another full inclusion thread 

[WNYBuckHunter]

1 hour ago, fasteddie said:

How is replying to someone who doesn't want Full Inclusion Trolling ? You think no one should respond in a negative way and so you consider that Trolling ?

I bought a crossbow and have taken it out when legal because it is so much easier to shoot being pre-cocked and a scope . Why would I want to use my compound when the Crossbow is available for me to use  ! The same goes for why use a crossbow during gun season . I am NOT against Crossbows . I just don't want to see Full Inclusion .

How many more threads of this do we need ? 

Responses to this pop up under " Recent Topics " so it's quite visible . Maybe the "Crossbow Hunting" Forum should go the way of "Gun & Hunting Laws & Political Discussions" so that people don't see this redundant discussion / argument .

Hey , gotta go shopping ........

Actually Eddie, I have to disagree with you on this. As I pointed out before, the anti crossbow crowd is always the side that fires the first shot. Always. Its going to stop.

The crossbow section is not going the way of the political forum, regardless of who doesnt like crossbows.

[reeltime]

The single biggest issue that seems to sway folks over to the pro-crossbow side, is less likelihood of wounded and non-recovered deer.  It is true that a crossbow can still wound deer, but it is far less likely at almost all skill levels.    

This statement is the entire issue. A crossbow is just as likely to cause wounding at any skill level and even more so when people think its ok to shoot 50,60 yards at a deer.

You need to take off the rose colored glasses and read some of the pa sites and see how many hit one need help, made a bad shot need help, that are done by crossbows. Look at some if the distances being shot....a crossbow is not the ultimate deer killing weapon that You keep touting it to be.


 The ground they are standing on is based only on selfish elitism, which does nothing to help their cause.    

This goes both ways, and this statement coming from one that wants full inclusion simply because they don't "have" the time to practice.
People don't even practice at the ranges they will attempt to shoot a deer whether it be vertical or crossbow, people trying to limit that aren't being "elitists" they are showing they have respect for the animals they hunt.

I have said it before it makes no difference to me as it won't change how I hunt.
I have been living with full inclusion in pa for a number of years. You keep saying it hasn't caused the sky to fall in pa. You know nothing of what you say in regards to pa.
Nothing and I mean NOTHING has cause more dissention between gun hunters and archery hunters in pa than the marked increase in buck harvests since full inclusion along with the increased archery stamp purchases.
I spend a lot of time down home and am a member of a few pa hunting sites and the impression you are trying to give wolc is incorrect. Its not all peachy and keen in pa.

Again makes no difference to me because its not going to change how when or why I archery hunt.


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[wolc123]

1 hour ago, turkeyfeathers said:

Yay ! Another full inclusion thread 

We got to keep whittling away.  If one or two more can be convinced on full inclusion it is a step in the right direction.  Sooner or later it is bound to happen.  There is no point in slowing down while we have the momentum.    

[vizslas]

spear hunting.... Full inclusion. but no mechanical broadheads

[turkeyfeathers]

3 minutes ago, vizslas said:

spear hunting.... Full inclusion. but no mechanical broadheads

what's that other thing ? Adalat ?

[vizslas]

4 minutes ago, turkeyfeathers said:

Adalat ?

 

[tughillmcd]

4 minutes ago, turkeyfeathers said:

what's that other thing ? Adalat ?

Atlatl

[vizslas]

thats like a chucket or something for my dogs ball. But much more high tech.

 

 

[Hunter007]

19 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

We got to keep whittling away.  If one or two more can be convinced on full inclusion it is a step in the right direction.  Sooner or later it is bound to happen.  There is no point in slowing down while we have the momentum.    

Just wondering how old are you ?  The dec is not going to give crossbow the same season as archery if they know it's going to effect the deer take of gun season.  It's that simple  at least I would be willing to bet that is what they are thinking or you would have had full inclusion all ready .

And the thing about less wounded deer and bad shots from crossbows  I don't think so 

more then likely guys will take longer shots because they have a scope on it and you will still get the same amount of wounded deer anyway.

Anyway you can use your crossbow in regular season to so you have plenty of time to use it . If it's so great why not just use it in regular season then ?

I personally like spot stalk tracking  gun hunting the best so I don't really care one way or the other .

 

[wolc123]

27 minutes ago, vizslas said:

thats like a chucket or something for my dogs ball. But much more high tech.

 

 

I once killed a big doe, that woke up after getting knocked out by a car, using a pocket knife with a 1-1/4" long blade.  Now I carry one with a 1" blade, just in case an opportunity comes along to best that personal record.   The key is keeping the blade razor sharp, a good half-nelson with the left arm and finding the jugular on the first cut with the right. After that, it will be bare hands I guess.   The local cops appreciate not needing to use their own weapons for that job, and the extra paperwork (and sometimes embaressment) which that entails.  Much of this road carnage could be eliminated, if they would just let us hunters have at those deer a bit earlier with the crossbows.  In this grossly overpopulated area (9F/9A), a vertical bow is  next to useless on antlerless deer, because they always travel in groups and one pair of eyes will almost always catch the draw.

 

18 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

Just wondering how old are you ?  The dec is not going to give crossbow the same season as archery if they know it's going to effect the deer take of gun season.  It's that simple  at least I would be willing to bet that is what they are thinking or you would have had full inclusion all ready .

And the thing about less wounded deer and bad shots from crossbows  I don't think so 

more then likely guys will take longer shots because they have a scope on it and you will still get the same amount of wounded deer anyway.

Anyway you can use your crossbow in regular season to so you have plenty of time to use it . If it's so great why not just use it in regular season then ?

I personally like spot stalk tracking  gun hunting the best so I don't really care one way or the other .

 

52.  How are you able to predict what the DEC will do ?   Have you killed deer with crossbows and vertical bows ?    How about Reeltime with the crossbow ?  

Lacking experience with both weapons, what you say is just hearsay and adds no real value to your arguments.   I have personally killed more than twice as many deer with a vertical bows than I have with a crossbow, but I also wounded a few with those that I never recovered.   My shot and recovery percentage with the crossbow stands at 100%.  That makes this personal with me.        

Edited November 22, 2017 by wolc123

[dbHunterNY]

7 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

Just wondering how old are you ?  The dec is not going to give crossbow the same season as archery if they know it's going to effect the deer take of gun season.  It's that simple  at least I would be willing to bet that is what they are thinking or you would have had full inclusion all ready .

And the thing about less wounded deer and bad shots from crossbows  I don't think so 

more then likely guys will take longer shots because they have a scope on it and you will still get the same amount of wounded deer anyway.

Anyway you can use your crossbow in regular season to so you have plenty of time to use it . If it's so great why not just use it in regular season then ?

I personally like spot stalk tracking  gun hunting the best so I don't really care one way or the other .

 

i honestly don't think it will.  many successful bowhunters will just get it done with a crossbow instead of a vertical bow.  not much change usually happens with anything having to do with archery season. crossbows are being used right now during the best part of bow season. so i don't expanding on that will have a significant effect. i think the bigger ridiculousness is saying you can't use some crossbows because they're not big enough.  vertical bow industry has gone to lighter and more compact bows. crossbow industry is doing the same, yet we're not allowed to use it.  it doesn't make sense.  the bigger bulkier crossbows are over 10 lbs with accessories added.  as a gun hunter would you want to be restricted to only hunting with a outfitted gun over 10 lbs?  that just sucks with no good reasoning.

[WNYBuckHunter]

2 hours ago, reeltime said:

 

 

I have said it before it makes no difference to me as it won't change how I hunt.
I have been living with full inclusion in pa for a number of years. You keep saying it hasn't caused the sky to fall in pa. You know nothing of what you say in regards to pa.
Nothing and I mean NOTHING has cause more dissention between gun hunters and archery hunters in pa than the marked increase in buck harvests since full inclusion along with the increased archery stamp purchases.
I spend a lot of time down home and am a member of a few pa hunting sites and the impression you are trying to give wolc is incorrect. Its not all peachy and keen in pa.

Again makes no difference to me because its not going to change how when or why I archery hunt.


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So, I have to point out that the sky hasnt fallen in PA, and there has not been a huge increase in buck take. Lets take a look at the numbers...

2003 - 142,270

2004 - 124,410

2005 - 120,500

2006 - numbers not available

2007 - 109,200

2008 - 122,410

FULL INCLUSION OCCURS

2009 - 108,330

2010 - 122,930

2011 - 127,540

2012 - 133,860

2013 - 134,280

2014 - 119,260

2015 - 137,580

2016 - 149,460

So last year the buck harvest finally got back to where it was in 2003, 6 years before full inclusion happened. PA did a few other things in that time period as well, that affected buck take. ARs, etc. I can imagine there are guys down there that claim that the rise in buck take is solely due to crossbows, but if you look at what it was before full inclusion happened, youll see that was not the case.

[WNYBuckHunter]

2 hours ago, vizslas said:

spear hunting.... Full inclusion. but no mechanical broadheads

Im in! I want to use my Rage broadheads though!

[WNYBuckHunter]

2 hours ago, Storm914 said:

Just wondering how old are you ?  The dec is not going to give crossbow the same season as archery if they know it's going to effect the deer take of gun season.  It's that simple  at least I would be willing to bet that is what they are thinking or you would have had full inclusion all ready .

And the thing about less wounded deer and bad shots from crossbows  I don't think so 

more then likely guys will take longer shots because they have a scope on it and you will still get the same amount of wounded deer anyway.

Anyway you can use your crossbow in regular season to so you have plenty of time to use it . If it's so great why not just use it in regular season then ?

I personally like spot stalk tracking  gun hunting the best so I don't really care one way or the other .

 

The DEC has already made it perfectly clear that they want full inclusion.

[reeltime]

52.  How are you able to predict what the DEC will do ?   Have you killed deer with crossbows and vertical bows ?    How about Reeltime with the crossbow ?  
Lacking experience with both weapons, what you say is just hearsay and adds no real value to your arguments.   I have personally killed more than twice as many deer with a vertical bows than I have with a crossbow, but I also wounded a few with those that I never recovered.   My shot and recovery percentage with the crossbow stands at 100%.  That makes this personal with me.        

Yes I have killed deer with a crossbow, I have family that live and hunt in Ohio. NOTHING I wrote is hearsay its years of experience with xbows and dealing with tracking bow and xbow shot deer, its sickening the distances people feel its ok to shoot and 100% honest is the fact that in the moment of truth the crossbow shooter will push the limits more.
By your own admission did you not do that exact thing the first year you could use a crossbow?

Glad your at 100%

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[vizslas]

2 hours ago, wolc123 said:

I once killed a big doe, that woke up after getting knocked out by a car, using a pocket knife with a 1-1/4" long blade.  Now I carry one with a 1" blade, just in case an opportunity comes along to best that personal record.   The key is keeping the blade razor sharp, a good half-nelson with the left arm and finding the jugular on the first cut with the right. After that, it will be bare hands I guess.   The local cops appreciate not needing to use their own weapons for that job, and the extra paperwork (and sometimes embaressment) which that entails.  Much of this road carnage could be eliminated, if they would just let us hunters have at those deer a bit earlier with the crossbows.  In this grossly overpopulated area (9F/9A), a vertical bow is  next to useless on antlerless deer, because they always travel in groups and one pair of eyes will almost always catch the draw.

 

52.  How are you able to predict what the DEC will do ?   Have you killed deer with crossbows and vertical bows ?    How about Reeltime with the crossbow ?  

Lacking experience with both weapons, what you say is just hearsay and adds no real value to your arguments.   I have personally killed more than twice as many deer with a vertical bows than I have with a crossbow, but I also wounded a few with those that I never recovered.   My shot and recovery percentage with the crossbow stands at 100%.  That makes this personal with me.        

I once had to gut a deer with a pen knife. It wasnt as rough as killing it with a pocket knife. but all I got to say is ride em cowboy. I been in that position a few times you know when the first shot just aint enough. Boy they aaare strong bastards. hahahahaaa I dont do that anymore.

[reeltime]

So, I have to point out that the sky hasnt fallen in PA, and there has not been a huge increase in buck take. Lets take a look at the numbers...
2003 - 142,270
2004 - 124,410
2005 - 120,500
2006 - numbers not available
2007 - 109,200
2008 - 122,410
FULL INCLUSION OCCURS
2009 - 108,330
2010 - 122,930
2011 - 127,540
2012 - 133,860
2013 - 134,280
2014 - 119,260
2015 - 137,580
2016 - 149,460
So last year the buck harvest finally got back to where it was in 2003, 6 years before full inclusion happened. PA did a few other things in that time period as well, that affected buck take. ARs, etc. I can imagine there are guys down there that claim that the rise in buck take is solely due to crossbows, but if you look at what it was before full inclusion happened, youll see that was not the case.

John 2003 was a spike year in harvest numbers, it was a good weather year and had an increase in archery tags because people wanted more woods time since the ar implementation. Just look at the next. 3/4 years the numbers went down and then after inclusion started back up before a low kill in 09 and 14.

Yes there was ar and herd reduction starting in 2002 as I have stated before when they did hr many areas of the state were decimated in deer pop. And things changed statewide.
For a few years a lot of the 1.5 bucks were protected from all but jr hunters . they also implemented the mentored youth program and a lot of kids "shot" bucks...when it first started there was no age restrictions and you would be shocked how many 3 and 4 year old kids shot bucks. Lol.

The first few years we didn't see many people carrying a crossbow simply because of the cost but as many have said when it came time to replace their vertical bow they bought a crossbow.
I spend a lot of time in pa and cover a lot of ground while there and I can say I see more people carrying a crossbow than compounds or recurves.



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[WNYBuckHunter]

19 minutes ago, reeltime said:

John 2003 was a spike year in harvest numbers, it was a good weather year and had an increase in archery tags because people wanted more woods time since the ar implementation. Just look at the next. 3/4 years the numbers went down and then after inclusion started back up before a low kill in 09 and 14.

Yes there was ar and herd reduction starting in 2002 as I have stated before when they did hr many areas of the state were decimated in deer pop. And things changed statewide.
For a few years a lot of the 1.5 bucks were protected from all but jr hunters . they also implemented the mentored youth program and a lot of kids "shot" bucks...when it first started there was no age restrictions and you would be shocked how many 3 and 4 year old kids shot bucks. Lol.

The first few years we didn't see many people carrying a crossbow simply because of the cost but as many have said when it came time to replace their vertical bow they bought a crossbow.
I spend a lot of time in pa and cover a lot of ground while there and I can say I see more people carrying a crossbow than compounds or recurves.



Sent from my LGL58VL using Tapatalk
 

I wasnt able to find the numbers in the years before 2003, not that i looked too hard though lol. Time will tell if the number last year was just a spike or not. If it was, it seems that the numbers are still following a typical up and down trend. I wonder though, if the downward trend that was being seen just before full inclusion happend, was a result of their HR policy, and the numbers are rebounding from that.

I did run across articles on 4 year olds killing deer lol.

It is interesting to see the total number of licenses going down, but the large increase in Archery licenses.

 

[fasteddie]

4 hours ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

 

The crossbow section is not going the way of the political forum, regardless of who doesnt like crossbows.

If you havn't figured it out , I was being SARCASTIC .......

[WNYBuckHunter]

5 minutes ago, fasteddie said:

If you havn't figured it out , I was being SARCASTIC .......

Just trying to head it off before it got legs my friend!

[reeltime]

I wasnt able to find the numbers in the years before 2003, not that i looked too hard though lol. Time will tell if the number last year was just a spike or not. If it was, it seems that the numbers are still following a typical up and down trend. I wonder though, if the downward trend that was being seen just before full inclusion happend, was a result of their HR policy, and the numbers are rebounding from that.
I did run across articles on 4 year olds killing deer lol.

John. With out a doubt hr affected the numbers and as I have said before people stepped in to protect the deer.
As I said it doesn't matter to me it won't change how I hunt and won't change my success, but for people to say it won't increase harvests its simply not true. Yes there are fluctuations but over all the numbers have increased both buck and doe.
To me it's a tag doesn't matter if its killed with a bow,xbow,gun or bazooka its still a dead deer.

You wouldn't believe some of the tag games we've seen down there with the mentor youth program and its a real shame adults have to do that stuff.

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[Hunter007]

3 hours ago, wolc123 said:

I once killed a big doe, that woke up after getting knocked out by a car, using a pocket knife with a 1-1/4" long blade.  Now I carry one with a 1" blade, just in case an opportunity comes along to best that personal record.   The key is keeping the blade razor sharp, a good half-nelson with the left arm and finding the jugular on the first cut with the right. After that, it will be bare hands I guess.   The local cops appreciate not needing to use their own weapons for that job, and the extra paperwork (and sometimes embaressment) which that entails.  Much of this road carnage could be eliminated, if they would just let us hunters have at those deer a bit earlier with the crossbows.  In this grossly overpopulated area (9F/9A), a vertical bow is  next to useless on antlerless deer, because they always travel in groups and one pair of eyes will almost always catch the draw.

 

52.  How are you able to predict what the DEC will do ?   Have you killed deer with crossbows and vertical bows ?    How about Reeltime with the crossbow ?  

Lacking experience with both weapons, what you say is just hearsay and adds no real value to your arguments.   I have personally killed more than twice as many deer with a vertical bows than I have with a crossbow, but I also wounded a few with those that I never recovered.   My shot and recovery percentage with the crossbow stands at 100%.  That makes this personal with me.        

Gun hunting is the most popular way to hunt and most effective.  What ever they do is going to take that in account. 

If you tell most hunters if they  want crossbows in all  archery most will say they don't care or are for it . 

Now if you tell them they may get less tags or less deer  during gun season .

What do you think most hunters would say ? And 

That is why we don't all ready have full inclusion in archery season . 

Btw I have hunted with Both crossbow and bow . I like bow better because its, lighter I don't take long shots with them . That's what guns are for . People want to take things like crossbows  slap a scope on it and use it like gun it's not .   I rather use a gun in fact I  would rather them  shorten the other seasons so I could use a gun. 

Which is really what most guys who want crossbow in archery  probably really want a longer gun season . 

Let's be honest or people would use them  in place of guns in guns season . 

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2017 by Storm914

[Doc]

8 hours ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

I dont understand why the anti crossbow guys constantly stir things up in the crossbow forum. It doesnt seem to matter what the subject or discussion is, anything related to crossbows attracts the same basic bunch of anti guys, who post nothing but unprompted negative crap about how they hate crossbows. It ALWAYS comes from the anti guys first. Look at this thread, post #5 is where it began. Enough already. You guys that dont like crossbows, just dont comment on the threads, its really that easy. If you cant start controlling yourselves, then I will start dealing with the issue differently.

Actually, I didn't have a thing to say on this topic until it began to morph into that same old crap that we have been fighting and arguing about for several years. What is the fascination with recreating these same divisive topics, unless it is just some thrill of trolling for reaction and trying to keep the discord alive. And I don't care whether this kind of thing happens in the bowhunting forum or the crossbow hunting forum. This kind of baiting of the opposite side is divisive, and I don't care which side is promoting this kind of contention. A post like this one is simply intended to extend the fight and it should be noted that it was not posted by an anti-crossbow individual.

[WNYBuckHunter]

22 minutes ago, Doc said:

Actually, I didn't have a thing to say on this topic until it began to morph into that same old crap that we have been fighting and arguing about for several years. What is the fascination with recreating these same divisive topics, unless it is just some thrill of trolling for reaction and trying to keep the discord alive. And I don't care whether this kind of thing happens in the bowhunting forum or the crossbow hunting forum. This kind of baiting of the opposite side is divisive, and I don't care which side is promoting this kind of contention. A post like this one is simply intended to extend the fight and it should be noted that it was not posted by an anti-crossbow individual.

I dont think it was intended to start any fights. It doesn’t matter what the thread is actually about, as long as it includes crossbows, the anti crowd here starts throwing their I hate crossbows rhetoric out there and then it spirals into a rerun of the crossbow thread that came before it. brownclown was the one to fire the first shot in this one.