The Kill When Hunting

[wolc123]

1 hour ago, TreeGuy said:

Yea, the heat will come.... Wait for it....

I've left a bunch. If they have the mange or a rough coat, they stay. I think I've shot more with mange than without. Also left one I shot with the bow, tracked it about 80 yards and didn't want to go into the bedding area during peak rut.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 

I like hearing the "yip" they make at night, when they come in to feed on a carcass pile and a .22 rimfire bullet passes thru their ribcage.  They never go more than 50 yards when I hear that.   Most are mangy and I just leave them out in the field to be plowed under in the spring.  I did skin a big, clean-furred male a few years ago and my cousin tanned it for me.  I don't think the hides are worth the time to skin them these days.   Coyotes are the only carcasses that even the crows will not eat.  I freshened the carcass pile yesterday, with a fat road-kill doe that I found at the end of our driveway when I got home from work.  It was nice to get another tail for jig-tying.  She was minimally damaged with no broken bones and not yet frozen.  I would have butchered her for our own consumption if our freezer was not already adequately stocked.    Hopefully, I will get to hear that "yip" a few times before the end of March.   If not, at least the crow shooting should last for quite a while now.    

I don't think the coyotes will show up until it warms up a bit and the carcass thaws out and starts to smell. Rigth now it is burried under about 6" of fresh snow.  Next week Tuesday looks promising according to the weather forecast.  I will be ready for them if they do show up, knowing that a yellow jacket from my Ruger 10/22 hits 2" low at the carcass pile 100 yards away, based on the last crow that I killed there on New years day.   When I killed that big male a few years ago, there was a smaller one with him.  He got a standing broadside shot, and I fired two or three at her as she ran off.  I do not think any of those connected, because I did not find any blood on her tracks the next morning.  The next time a pair shows up, I will definitely target the smaller one first, because that will usually be the female.  I would encourage anyone else to do likewise, if you want to reduce their numbers.      

Edited February 10, 2018 by wolc123

[nyantler]

On 2/7/2018 at 6:11 PM, TreeGuy said:

Brilliant ! Or not.... I think u failed to relate what WE hunt too, which was my point. Hunting a hunter who is after the same game I am.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 

After game to survive and after game as a sport are two different things... we have the ability of choice the coyote is only working on instinct and what it does naturally... just like all the other animals in the wild

 

Edited February 10, 2018 by nyantler

[Just Lucky]

1 hour ago, nyantler said:

After game to survive and after game as a sport are two different things... we have the ability of choice the coyote is only working on instinct and what it does naturally... just like all the other animals in the wild

 

A coyote deserves to dye, it understands its a predator.  Survival of the fittest. 

[Curmudgeon]

10 hours ago, Belo said:

I don’t think you’ll get much heat. They’re an invasive pet with no real use after being killed

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Belo,

You're right, the coyote haters won't get much heat. It is expected, just like the religious hate and racism on other parts of the site. What is not expected is seeing that you "like" these posts, and agree with them. You have demonstrated that you are intelligent, educated, and on most topics exhibit extreme amounts of reason. This blind spot seems out of character.  

[TreeGuy]

After game to survive and after game as a sport are two different things... we have the ability of choice the coyote is only working on instinct and what it does naturally... just like all the other animals in the wild

 

I think your still failing miserably to see my point. If you think I'm not aware of the reasons coyote and any animal/bird/fish etc hunts, you must have me confused for somebody else.

 

Do you think deer hunting is easy for humans ? How about turkey hunting... Easy ? No, Exactly. Now hunting something that hunts those difficult to kill game animals is a mighty challenge. I like challenges. I like to coyote hunt cause they are challenging and very hard to kill consistently. So I like to hunt coyotes, who also hunt similar game as I do, because I know how educated they are in the woods and I know it will be difficult to kill them, thus a personal reward when one falls to my weapon. I also like accomplishing goals. It's always a goal for me to connect on an "apex" predator, especially since we are on a similar level on the food chain, so to speak.

 

 

Are you picking up what I'm putting down ? Do you have a shovel ?

 

 

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

48 minutes ago, Curmudgeon said:

Belo,

You're right, the coyote haters won't get much heat. It is expected, just like the religious hate and racism on other parts of the site. What is not expected is seeing that you "like" these posts, and agree with them. You have demonstrated that you are intelligent, educated, and on most topics exhibit extreme amounts of reason. This blind spot seems out of character.  

He should agree with the truth. There was never a more useless vermin ever made than a coyote. Does nothing for the land or the ecosystem. They could all fall off the earth right at this moment and life would not miss a beat.  Useless!!!

[chrisw]

A coyote deserves to dye, it understands its a predator.  Survival of the fittest. 

Ignorance runs strong in you doesn't it? And for the record you so highly evolved, self loathing creature, it's "die" not "dye"...

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

[DirtTime]

3 hours ago, Curmudgeon said:

Belo,

You're right, the coyote haters won't get much heat. It is expected, just like the religious hate and racism on other parts of the site. What is not expected is seeing that you "like" these posts, and agree with them. You have demonstrated that you are intelligent, educated, and on most topics exhibit extreme amounts of reason. This blind spot seems out of character.  

OK, I want to address this one first. I will agree, there is a large amount of racism and bigotry in the political section, I don't like it, and have stood up against it, many times.

Now, as for "religious hate" on here? Not sure I agree with one at all. Yes, people bust balls about religion ( not everyone holds the same faith, so if they disagree it's not HATE, it's "diversity"  ( isn't that liberal term? ), I have never actually seen any form of religious "HATE" on this site.

What we do have on this site are a lot of "zealots"! It's do things their way or no way at all! Or you have to think their way or you're wrong!

 

 

Now, as far as making the kill on a game animal. The turkeys I have harvested, the rabbits, squirrels, fish I have caught, all of them. I don't cry, but I certainly take a moment to respect my harvest. I also don't hunt to get a record buck, and I don't fish if I can't eat what I catch. 

[Doc]

To me, hunting is a natural human act that I never apologize for or feel bad about in any fashion. I don't spend a lot of time feeling anything but joy at success. If I begin to humanize the lives of my prey, the whole activity would simply stop. I don't do anything that makes me feel bad or feel remorse or any negative emotions. I guess the lessons that Walt Disney tried to instill into us just didn't take with me.

By the way I don't hunt out of hate either, so I have no vendetta against coyotes or foxes or any other predatory wild critter. But if they can supply a challenge (and they definitely do), I will take them out too.

My motivations for hunting is my genetic natural instincts as a predator. The thrill of the chase, and yes the finality of the kill are all part of what I do. It is something that I am quite honest about. I do not practice any form of "catch and release" hunting, and I go out with the intention of producing a kill. It is what is expected. It is what is wanted. And I do not become involved with any sort of negative emotions over it either.

[wolc123]

11 hours ago, Real World Hunter said:

He should agree with the truth. There was never a more useless vermin ever made than a coyote. Does nothing for the land or the ecosystem. They could all fall off the earth right at this moment and life would not miss a beat.  Useless!!!

God did not create any "useless vermin".   I would rather not have coyotes on the lands where I hunt.  I do appreciate them in the adjacent town. I have to drive thru it each weekday, on my way to and from work.  Hunting is not allowed over there, and the coyote helps keep deer numbers in check.   I also appreciate how the coyotes kill the weakest deer first, because that provides some benefit to that species which you love for the antlers and I love for the meat. I also enjoy the challenge they offer.  For me, that usually involves trying to get my bedroom window open quietly on a moon-lit snowy night, and placing a .22 rimfire bullet where it needs to go. 

Because I would rather not have coyotes on the lands that I hunt, I would like to see a year-round open season on them.  It sounds like you have that now.  How does one go about getting permission for that, or do you not worry about it ?    It would be much easier shooting the pups out on the cut hay fields in the summer, before they learn the tricks of survival.         

[Five Seasons]

On 2/10/2018 at 6:58 PM, Curmudgeon said:

Belo,

You're right, the coyote haters won't get much heat. It is expected, just like the religious hate and racism on other parts of the site. What is not expected is seeing that you "like" these posts, and agree with them. You have demonstrated that you are intelligent, educated, and on most topics exhibit extreme amounts of reason. This blind spot seems out of character.  

The coyote is not native to NY. If legally hunted and killed, it only insures a greater chance of survival of other critters. It has no predators itself. Should the eastern coyote disappear tomorrow, what negative impact would that have on the eco-system? 

I'd just like to state that my comment was directed at leaving the carcass. Does killing for fur (not for meat) make any difference to just killing and leaving? 

[Five Seasons]

On 2/10/2018 at 10:51 PM, Rob... said:

OK, I want to address this one first. I will agree, there is a large amount of racism and bigotry in the political section, I don't like it, and have stood up against it, many times.

Now, as for "religious hate" on here? Not sure I agree with one at all. Yes, people bust balls about religion ( not everyone holds the same faith, so if they disagree it's not HATE, it's "diversity"  ( isn't that liberal term? ), I have never actually seen any form of religious "HATE" on this site.

What we do have on this site are a lot of "zealots"! It's do things their way or no way at all! Or you have to think their way or you're wrong!

 

really? never any hatred directed at Muslims? 

[Doc]

5 hours ago, Belo said:

really? never any hatred directed at Muslims? 

Wow this thread sure jumped off to the side......lol. Let me just add to this thread deflection that just because people are critical of crazy Muslim extremists that are determined to kill us, it should not be assumed that they hate Muslims. I find myself a bit intolerant of those individuals who publicly state that they have a sworn duty to kill me. Somehow that does not fit into the realm of racism in my book. I understand that there are some who get a feeling of superiority when they call people racists even when there is no basis for the allegation. There is a lot of that going on these days.

[cbyzerman]

How did this turn into religious argument? 

[turkeyfeathers]

30 minutes ago, cbyzerman said:

How did this turn into religious argument? 

a few more pages and it'll be AR restictions and full Xbow inclusion if you give it a chance

[Five Seasons]

17 hours ago, Doc said:

Wow this thread sure jumped off to the side......lol. Let me just add to this thread deflection that just because people are critical of crazy Muslim extremists that are determined to kill us, it should not be assumed that they hate Muslims. I find myself a bit intolerant of those individuals who publicly state that they have a sworn duty to kill me. Somehow that does not fit into the realm of racism in my book. I understand that there are some who get a feeling of superiority when they call people racists even when there is no basis for the allegation. There is a lot of that going on these days.

Why aren't there 50 topics posted by papsmear after every crazy christian white guy shoots up a church? 

[cbyzerman]

I hear ya.  That is why religious stuff should not be talked about.  That is 10x worse than politics.  

[Curmudgeon]

On 2/12/2018 at 4:12 PM, cbyzerman said:

How did this turn into religious argument? 

While I thought the analogy between coyote hate and religious/racial hate was valid, especially for Belo who argues forcefully against both, maybe I shouldn't have put that shiny bauble out there. I'll take the credit or blame.

 

On 2/12/2018 at 9:49 AM, Belo said:

The coyote is not native to NY. If legally hunted and killed, it only insures a greater chance of survival of other critters. It has no predators itself. Should the eastern coyote disappear tomorrow, what negative impact would that have on the eco-system? 

I'd just like to state that my comment was directed at leaving the carcass. Does killing for fur (not for meat) make any difference to just killing and leaving? 

You bring up an interesting point. I could make the same argument that timber wolves are not native to North America. It is just a timing issue. So, if coyotes are not acceptable because they expanded their range into NY, does that mean you would find eastern wolves - Canis lycaon - acceptable? We could bring in some from Algonquin Park (even though they are not pure, having some coyote genetics) to restore a "native" predator.

What critters are you hoping to help survive? What if those critters have a negative effect on other critters. The worst critter for habitat damage in NY is deer.

Agreed, coyotes have no significant predators in NY except people. To assume that makes any difference in the overall state population is wrong. People killing coyotes drives their evolutionary adaptation to increase reproduction. Killing them only provides a momentary lowering of a very local population. It has no significant impact.

Your question about their value, or lack of, to the ecosystem is interesting. If you only care about game, knowing coyotes kill some can seem troubling. As we see on this forum, it can even cause some people to react with hatred. Consider, NY has lacked a predator this large for over a century. We have a severe over-population of deer and sedentary Canada Geese in most of the state. Nesting geese are just as non-native as coyotes. These animals impact a whole range of species. Coyotes are failing to control these populations, though even I believe they do help manage them a little. Coyotes also help control a range of other species that can become problematic for birds, especially those that prey on ground nests. While I hear complaints from farmers about coyote hunters removing a control on woodchucks, this demonstrates a lack of information just as severe as believing coyote hunters have any real influence on deer populations.

Re your last question, killing for fur is less wasteful. It provides a justification anyway. Anyone who kills a coyote for no other reason than thinking they are doing something good is a fool.

[Five Seasons]

i think it boils down to game and anyone who argues differently is lying. The deer does not pray on other mammals, reptiles, birds etc. Sure it does indeed damage habitat. However, when harvested the deer provides both meat and hide that is valuable to many. Therefore its a valuable game animal. When we try and wrap our heads around coyotes... there's not much there that seems valuable to us game hunters. In fact, it's often hard to see a trail cam video of one taking down polts and fawns and not conjure up some anger towards them. I agree that there is value in the coyote when they thin the sick and weak. 

The same argument you made could be applied to invasive boar... they do damage but are also invasive and are edible...is it unacceptable to trap and kill and not eat a boar? is helicopter hunting unethical for boar? It is for deer...

for what it's worth, i haven't killed a single coyote in my life.

[stubborn1VT]

To suggest that taking coyotes out of the ecosystem would have no impact is laughable.  I understand they kill deer/fawns, poults and other game animals.  The bulk of their diet is rodents.  I have a much bigger problem with mice than I do with coyotes.  That is not to say that I don't shoot coyotes.  They help balance the ecosystem.  I don't believe the natural world is only there for my use and enjoyment.  Critters have to make a living too.  While it's true that I would like fewer coyotes around my house, I can handle their existance more easily than a plague of GD wire chewing, nest making, tree girdling mice.

[Five Seasons]

was the east overrun with mice before the coyote migrated here? 

[chas0218]

15 minutes ago, Belo said:

was the east overrun with mice before the coyote migrated here? 

They had more birds of prey that took care of them. 

[Curmudgeon]

27 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

They had more birds of prey that took care of them. 

And, historically the forested habitat was much less productive for mice.

[Five Seasons]

so i'm in favor of more bad ass birds of prey. Kill the yotes and let those eagles fly baby!

[nyantler]

On 2/10/2018 at 6:53 PM, Just Lucky said:

A coyote deserves to dye, it understands its a predator.  Survival of the fittest. 

Wild animals do NOT have a cognitive thought process... it does not understand anything it reacts to stimuli based on instinct... and knows nothing about recoloring things

Edited February 15, 2018 by nyantler