The battle,over gun rights

[ATbuckhunter]

45 minutes ago, Rattler said:

Perhaps it is because they are not free people and haven't got the means to carry out mass killings like people who have freedom of choice do.  In a socialist environment, you're free to do whatever the government let's you do.  That is the incessant creep of Progressive Socialism.  That isn't to say banning freedom is the answer to violence.  I would much rather live in a free society with all it's risks, than live in a dull environment that lacks liberty and the pursuit of happiness in the name of government controlled security.

Many countries do have the means for it. Go to the Balkans, and ill pay you for each house you find with out some kind of AKM or other fully automatic machine gun. No mass killings over there, even though everyone has these guns illegally. So to me that obviously means its something other than guns causing the problem. 

[steve863]

4 minutes ago, philoshop said:

You've basically answered your own question. European countries are government-controlled Socialist societies. The citizens have abdicated their rights of individualism to 'the collective'. In most cases those citizens were coerced by 'the collective' simply because of their proximity to one another. That's how the EU was formed.

America was founded on individualism, and a fair number of us don't want to give that up. We're a very unique nation in many ways and it's a patriotic duty to make sure that we don't become "more like Europe". If you worship European Socialism, American individualism grants you the Liberty to move there at any time, no questions asked. Suggesting that America should (or has to) adopt European values is what doesn't hold water.

Absolutely did not suggest that.  I am only stating that if your "broad-brush" theory had any merit, we'd also have just as many mass shootings in Europe.  You guys were the first to say that if people didn't have access to guns, which many don't have easy access to in Europe, they'd use other means like bombs, cars, trucks, knives, etc.  So why aren't they using these other methods instead?  And again, don't throw the jihadists in the mix here, because they are a whole different animal in this discussion of American style mass killings. 

I was only bringing up your theory here and will again say that it holds absolutely NO water on why some Americans are driven to such mass killings.  I'm sure there are plenty of reasons why these people commit such crimes, many which will probably never be figured out, but to say that it's "progressive socialism" that is causing it is pretty lame.  So the "progressive socialists" are the ones brainwashing our kids in school that guns are bad and that people shouldn't have any guns, and then you think these same kids are going out to buy an AR15 to shoot the school up?   Yeah, that makes a LOT of sense.   The facts are that both the Sandy Hook killer and the Florida killer were living in homes WITH guns, so ANY brainwashing they might have gotten in school by the "progressive socialists" wasn't lived out in the home.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[chas0218]

5 minutes ago, ATbuckhunter said:

Many countries do have the means for it. Go to the Balkans, and ill pay you for each house you find with out some kind of AKM or other fully automatic machine gun. No mass killings over there, even though everyone has these guns illegally. So to me that obviously means its something other than guns causing the problem. 

To anyone with common sense it isn't the gun creating the problem, it's the upbringing, societal influences, and mental disorders that make these people go bat crap crazy.

[ATbuckhunter]

3 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

To anyone with common sense it isn't the gun creating the problem, it's the upbringing, societal influences, and mental disorders that make these people go bat crap crazy.

I really feel that social media has really negatively impacted a lot of society. Especially for the weaker minded individuals.

[Hunter007]

22 minutes ago, steve863 said:

So, you are saying that the reason there are less mass killings in Europe is because they "haven't got the means to carry out mass killing"??   In other words fewer guns available would equal fewer mass shootings?  You sure are making a good argument for what the anti-gun side has been trying to say all along, aren't you?  LOL

 

 

 

 

 

50 60  70 80 Years ago before we had any background checks or gun control  and guns  were every place  more then now we did not have school shootings   most high schools had rifle teams . Indoor ranges even .

Society got more violent in this country while Europe   stayed the same.

It had nothing to do with gun restrictions .

It's the glorification of violence that the  media in this country promotes and the breakdown of the family values and religion.  That created this problem 

 

[steve863]

5 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

50 60  70 80 Years ago before we had any background checks or gun control  and guns  were every place  more then now we did not have school shootings   most high schools had rifle teams . Indoor ranges even .

Society got more violent in this country while Europe   stayed the same.

It had nothing to do with gun restrictions .

It's the glorification of violence that the  media in this country promotes and the breakdown of the family values and religion.  That created this problem 

 

I wouldn't disagree with you on that, but whose fault is it that family values are going to hell??   Just because many families these days have poor values, and society puts little emphasis on good old fashioned values, doesn't mean your or my family has to go down the same route.  To hell with what today's society wants or expects, it's time for everyone to get their OWN house in order.  I can't stand people blaming society for this and that while their own lives are so F*&$ed up that it isn't even funny!  Why would that be everyone else's fault??

 

 

 

 

 

[philoshop]

2 hours ago, Storm914 said:

Turns out this thing could have been stopped by the parents or the cops or the FBI slowly the truth about it is coming out if you have incompetent people running things in goverment these things will happen more then they should they were warmed about this guy .

He made death threats multiple times he could have been charged but cops gave him a pass 30 times  .

The real problem is who was running the police department down there 

It's not about incompetence. It's about corruption and malfeasance.

The Broward County Sheriff's Dept agreed with the county school administrators several years ago to help them improve their student arrest records. In exchange for that reduction they all received substantial federal monies for these 'improvements'.

Broward County had a problem with dropouts and student incarceration rates. It hurt the funding. Their solution was to simply not report student criminal activity, and the Sheriff went along with it. The numbers, for funding purposes, improved of course. But it was only because the crimes weren't being reported. This is how Nikolas Cruz was able to pass the NICS test and buy an AR15. His history had never been reported because it would have hurt school system funding. This is a sickness.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

38 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

That is doubtful being that less than 1% registered their AR when they were supposed too. Now you can get around registering by making them compliant but there wasn't anything available to do this when they passed through the Safe Act. It took a little work to figure out what was legal and what wasn't.

Just had to take them apart. 

[Rattler]

1 hour ago, steve863 said:

So, you are saying that the reason there are less mass killings in Europe is because they "haven't got the means to carry out mass killing"??   In other words fewer guns available would equal fewer mass shootings?  You sure are making a good argument for what the anti-gun side has been trying to say all along, aren't you?  LOL

No, what I'm saying is with fewer firearms, you get fewer mass shootings, not less violent crime in total.  I would think that connection would be obvious, but people seem to like to compare Europe to the US trying to make a point.  That is not to say they have fewer mass killings, murders or less violent crime, just less mass shootings.  Unless people compare the totality of one country's political system to another country's, they are cherry picking information, which often doesn't give the whole picture.  Unless they are willing to live under a European country's entire social and cultural norms and mores, they shouldn't try to compare them to the US.

And don't forget the anti-gun side is advocating restricting all sorts of freedoms to attain their utopian goals.  Just like much of Europe has done.  Does any America think that is a good argument?

 

Edited February 26, 2018 by Rattler

[Culvercreek hunt club]

If the guns and access to them (especially those evil "assault weapons")are the problem, then why has firearm homicide gone down consistently since the Assault Weapon Ban was allowed to expire?  

[chas0218]

12 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Just had to take them apart. 

Not many knew that and even less knew their once legal gun was now illegal.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

3 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

Not many knew that and even less knew their once legal gun was now illegal.

You have to change the quality of folks you hang around with...lol. 

[Buckmaster7600]

I really feel that social media has really negatively impacted a lot of society. Especially for the weaker minded individuals.

I completely agree! Instead of changing the minimum age of buying guns they should be raising the age to use social media. As well as restrict individuals with mental disorders.

There have always been mentally weak people, although I feel there is way more of them now but these individuals can’t get away from it when it’s with them constantly. It used to be that if you were being picked on at school or work once you got home you were away from it not the case anymore.


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[philoshop]

I'm coming to the conclusion that the leftists just don't like to accept the fact that the U.S. is different. We're bigger, stronger, more economically powerful, and more independent than other countries. I find it strange that people would object to being part of that, and part of this amazingly successful experiment in self-governance. The next person who tells me that we need to be more like some other country is gonna get a punch in the nose.

[Doewhacker]

3 hours ago, Storm914 said:

3 hours ago, steve863 said:

 

50 60  70 80 Years ago before we had any background checks or gun control  and guns  were every place  more then now we did not have school shootings   most high schools had rifle teams . Indoor ranges even .

There are more guns in homes in the US than ever before. 

Also, this Cruz was on the high school rifle team. 

 

[Doewhacker]

2 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

I completely agree! Instead of changing the minimum age of buying guns they should be raising the age to use social media. As well as restrict individuals with mental disorders.

There have always been mentally weak people, although I feel there is way more of them now but these individuals can’t get away from it when it’s with them constantly. It used to be that if you were being picked on at school or work once you got home you were away from it not the case anymore.


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I was recently talking to a person in the mental health field and they told me that the number of younger folks that sought treatment has risen dramatically with the emergence of smart phones and constant connections to social media ect. 

So at least from this professional I spoke to, you guys are right on in that theory. 

[Hunter007]

You got to ask your self who gave these clowns the idea that it would be fun cool to go around killing people just for kicks . Way back when 40 50 years ago  Before when video games and movies were more censored  restricted you did not have this problem They need to do  a better job of keeping these weak minded nut jobs away from that trash .And off the drugs . And take them more seriously when they start making threats .  

 

 

[Buckmaster7600]

I was recently talking to a person in the mental health field and they told me that the number of younger folks that sought treatment has risen dramatically with the emergence of smart phones and constant connections to social media ect. 
So at least from this professional I spoke to, you guys are right on in that theory. 

My sister in law is the psychologist at our high school. The stories she tells is absurd.


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[Hunter007]

2 hours ago, Doewhacker said:

There are more guns in homes in the US than ever before. 

Also, this Cruz was on the high school rifle team. 

 

Go back 70 80 100 years ago You use to be able to buy hand  guns at the local hardware store no permits  to carry nothing.  Even in mail order catalogues 

Everyone had a gun back then .

There are more guns now only because now the people who have them own many more .

Not because more people have them .But because the people who do buy them buy more each . And most the guns from 100 years ago are still around to .

You go back 80  90 years ago or more every  single person was armed .

And you had  less problems with them   ,then now 

Society changed became more violent.

 

http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Blackcloud2/media/scan0002-1.jpg.html

Edited February 27, 2018 by Storm914

[ADK Native]

The National Rifle Association should be more vocal about the following two major causes of gun violence:

·         The distribution, sale and use of illegal drugs. 

·         The violently mentally ill who are allowed to remain free in public. 

Neither of the real causes of firearm violence are caused by AR’s, hand guns or any other type of firearm.  

[Hunter007]

8 hours ago, philoshop said:

It's not about incompetence. It's about corruption and malfeasance.

The Broward County Sheriff's Dept agreed with the county school administrators several years ago to help them improve their student arrest records. In exchange for that reduction they all received substantial federal monies for these 'improvements'.

Broward County had a problem with dropouts and student incarceration rates. It hurt the funding. Their solution was to simply not report student criminal activity, and the Sheriff went along with it. The numbers, for funding purposes, improved of course. But it was only because the crimes weren't being reported. This is how Nikolas Cruz was able to pass the NICS test and buy an AR15. His history had never been reported because it would have hurt school system funding. This is a sickness.

I heard   something like that is  what is  going on in NYC  these days  with de Blasio  making the  cops  forced to    low ball  the real  crime rate numbers to make big Bird look good  on tv .

Maybe someone who lives there could verify this .

But that is what I heard .

Not that media will tell us the truth there just as corrupt seems like .

 

 

 

[rachunter]

If anyone is thinking of joining the NRA here's a link for a discount.Good until march 15th

http://www.shootingusa.com/LATEST_UPDATES/NRA_news/NRA_Membership/nra_membership.html

[CoffeeBoy]

This particular event never would have happened had the authorities done their job in the first place.
They had received warnings for 2 years and neglected to follow up.
However, all we hear about is more gun laws.

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[chas0218]

19 hours ago, Storm914 said:

50 60  70 80 Years ago before we had any background checks or gun control  and guns  were every place  more then now we did not have school shootings   most high schools had rifle teams . Indoor ranges even .

Society got more violent in this country while Europe   stayed the same.

It had nothing to do with gun restrictions .

It's the glorification of violence that the  media in this country promotes and the breakdown of the family values and religion.  That created this problem 

 

We also didn't have the ability to see what was happening in real-time or the amount of media coverage we have today. With social media we knew the parkland shooting was happening seconds after it started compared to 30 years ago when you heard about it happening on the "Nightly News" hours after the event and it was purely the facts not some cockamamie story the news station/outlet decided to twist around and add personal bias.

Edited February 27, 2018 by chas0218

[Hunter007]

8 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

We also didn't have the ability to see what was happening in real-time or the amount of media coverage we have today. With social media we knew this was happening seconds after it started compared to 30 years ago when you heard about it happening on the "Nightly News" hours after the event and it was purely the facts not some cockamamie story the news station/outlet decided to twist around and add personal bias.

Which fuels these nutjobs because that's what they're after attention .

If the media did not cover these storys or at least not cover it so much .

You would not have others trying to copy what the last idiot did .