For Or Against Full Inclusion

[fasteddie]

4 hours ago, wolc123 said:

Welcome back to the fight.   Maybe Doc and Belo will be able to work up enough courage to get back into it also.  

It takes Courage to get into an argument ??? What the hell have you been drinking ? Maybe they don't care to respond to your drivel . 

Guess what --- You still won't be out with your cross bow October 1st ( not legally ) . So , I don't care if this post brings the thread back to the top because it won't change the fact the cross bows won't be legal until the last two weeks of bow season .

[sodfather]

17 hours ago, wolc123 said:

I agree that the archery course should be required to hunt with a crossbow.   It sounds like there was some type of compromise deal 5 years ago, with an organized anti-crossbow group, that forced them to be categorized as muzzleloaders in order to get them in for the last 14 days of archery season in the southern zone and the last (3) in the northern zone.   

Right now, it seems like most NY crossbow hunters still are or were bowhunters previously, with only a few taking it up who only gun-hunted before.   The requirement of the archery course should make the percentage of crossbow hunters, who were not bowhunters previously, even less.   The 40 year Ohio stats provide a very good indication that many will continue to use vertical bows, even after full-inclusion of the crossbow occurs.              

There’s a organized anti crossbow group? Where do I sign up and who do I make my check out to? 

[wolc123]

2 hours ago, fasteddie said:

It takes Courage to get into an argument ??? What the hell have you been drinking ? Maybe they don't care to respond to your drivel . 

Guess what --- You still won't be out with your cross bow October 1st ( not legally ) . So , I don't care if this post brings the thread back to the top because it won't change the fact the cross bows won't be legal until the last two weeks of bow season .

Thanks for posting again and bringing the truth back up to the top: that the overwhelming majority of NY hunters who are members of this site support full inclusion of the crossbow.    I will keep up my "drivel" until that happens.   It is very easy to do when you and others keep reminding me on this thread that the cause I am fighting for is so strongly supported by the membership here.  How do you feel about being a moderator who is that out of touch with the majority ?   

I have also explained how waiting until the last two weeks will not hurt me much personally.  I am keeping up this fight mostly for the benefit of others.   I would like to help more with the the control of the deer population in the zone where I live, and the crossbow would enable that.    I also plan on getting out with it legally, for three days in mid-October, up in the Northern zone this year.   That is a vacation that I probably would not take if full inclusion happens this fall.   Vacations are always good.   I do wish you the best of luck hunting this fall with your compound and your crossbow, and I commend you for at least giving the crossbow a try.   

 

1 hour ago, sodfather said:

There’s a organized anti crossbow group? Where do I sign up and who do I make my check out to? 

I think that organization goes by the name of New York Bowhunters or NYB.   At least one member here has stopped writing them checks, so they surely could use yours.   It has got to be getting tough for them to hold the line against further incursion of the crossbow, by the looks of this poll compared to the one over a year ago, which showed a significantly lower level of support for full-inclusion (about 2:1 versus the approaching 3:1 that we are seeing now).    

We are at 20 pages now, onward towards 21.  Keep up the good fight.   

Edited April 15, 2018 by wolc123

[SteveB]

We have our own Jim Carrey  and Jeff Daniels doing the HuntingNY version of a cult classic.

[Hunter007]

Wolf if Bigfoot was real should xbow be used to hunt them ? 

Can we do that poll next 

Edited April 16, 2018 by Storm914

[Bowshotmuzzleloader]

29 minutes ago, SteveB said:

We have our own Jim Carrey  and Jeff Daniels doing the HuntingNY version of a cult classic.

More like the movie “Step Brothers”

LOL..:)

[Five Seasons]

On 4/14/2018 at 12:32 PM, wolc123 said:

I would be ok with the two weeks traditional but not the two weeks compound.  That should be in the same class as the crossbow since they are both "high-tech" and have comparable range and accuracy.   The biggest problem I have with this whole debate is the "compound-only" dudes selfishly trying to keep crossbows out, so they can have more "big-bucks" for themselves.   

 

what crack has the lord and savior jesus christ provided you with that you think the range is comparable? 

[Five Seasons]

On 4/15/2018 at 7:05 AM, Chevy said:

I voted NO. Not looking to be bullied by wolc, but I want to explain that I was drawn to archery season many years ago because it required dedication to be proficient and successful unlike the gun season which can be a circus. I enjoy the gun season also, but want to keep the circus where it is. 

amen

[Five Seasons]

On 4/15/2018 at 10:02 AM, wolc123 said:

Welcome back to the fight.   Maybe Doc and Belo will be able to work up enough courage to get back into it also.  

it's not courage brother. It's boredom. I rarely if ever post on the weekends. I have sh!t to do in my life. Apparently you do not. If I felt like we were having an intelligent reasonable discussion (as i have with other pro crossbow members) I'd engage you more. You're just a little out there for me. You seem to claim victory solely based on a poll. Meanwhile the president of the NYCC won't answer a simple question and many of the pro-crossbow folks are turning their nose up at the "elitist bowhunters", when in fact your latest round of bills has failed. 

You can believe what you want, but for now, the season wont change regardless of how many pages this goes. And at this point, there is a better chance that papist embraces Islam than some of the more entrenched members changing their views solely as a result of this thread and your nonsensical ramblings. 

Edited April 16, 2018 by Belo

[wolc123]

3 hours ago, Belo said:

it's not courage brother. It's boredom. I rarely if ever post on the weekends. I have sh!t to do in my life. Apparently you do not. If I felt like we were having an intelligent reasonable discussion (as i have with other pro crossbow members) I'd engage you more. You're just a little out there for me. You seem to claim victory solely based on a poll. Meanwhile the president of the NYCC won't answer a simple question and many of the pro-crossbow folks are turning their nose up at the "elitist bowhunters", when in fact your latest round of bills has failed. 

You can believe what you want, but for now, the season wont change regardless of how many pages this goes. And at this point, there is a better chance that papist embraces Islam than some of the more entrenched members changing their views solely as a result of this thread and your nonsensical ramblings. 

I am glad to see you back in the fight.  You are one of the few who at least has the stones to admit that you don't want full-inclusion because you do not want to share deer and/or hunting spots with folks who may not measure up to your level of strength, skill and dedication.  I appreciate your honesty on that. What do you think of a compromise that would include two weeks for traditional (recurve or longbow) starting on October 1 in the southern zone, then opening up crossbow and compound on October 15, while keeping the current crossbow poundage and width restrictions, and making the archery course a requirement for all ?  

I am not claiming victory, but I am very encouraged to see the progress made from the last poll over a year ago.   Isn't it odd that no one can produce any evidence of that one ?   It might be harder to hide the 20 plus pages of this one.  Just one more vote gets the poll to 100.  Keep up the good work.

Edited April 16, 2018 by wolc123

[bugsNbows]

This "discussion" reminds me of when my Libby NYS sister and I go at it. She has finally given up and said we'll just have to agree to disagree then. LOL

[Five Seasons]

19 hours ago, wolc123 said:

I am glad to see you back in the fight.  You are one of the few who at least has the stones to admit that you don't want full-inclusion because you do not want to share deer and/or hunting spots with folks who may not measure up to your level of strength, skill and dedication.  I appreciate your honesty on that. What do you think of a compromise that would include two weeks for traditional (recurve or longbow) starting on October 1 in the southern zone, then opening up crossbow and compound on October 15, while keeping the current crossbow poundage and width restrictions, and making the archery course a requirement for all ?  

I am not claiming victory, but I am very encouraged to see the progress made from the last poll over a year ago.   Isn't it odd that no one can produce any evidence of that one ?   It might be harder to hide the 20 plus pages of this one.  Just one more vote gets the poll to 100.  Keep up the good work.

i think there is already a compromise. You get the last 2 weeks of the best hunting there is in NY. And once you get full inclusion, you'll want the airbow. Because it propels an arrow without the use of gunpowder. And of course we want the most effective and easy to use method for reducing deer numbers... killing bb's isn't enough... 

Edited April 17, 2018 by Belo

[wolc123]

5 hours ago, Belo said:

i think there is already a compromise. You get the last 2 weeks of the best hunting there is in NY. And once you get full inclusion, you'll want the airbow. Because it propels an arrow without the use of gunpowder. And of course we want the most effective and easy to use method for reducing deer numbers... killing bb's isn't enough... 

Bumper914 also brought up the airbow, and it definitely seems to be an over-used argument by the anti-crossbow crowd.  Is that part of the NYB training ?   Maybe it is time they got a new playbook.   I would be ok with it's use in gun season, but I feel archery season should be limited to weapons with strings and arrows (or bolts).   I like the current restrictions on draw weight and limb width for crossbows.   They help keep crossbow performance comparable to compounds in terms of effective range.   Unless you can figure out how to shoot a compound from a rest with a telescopic sight there is no way compound accuracy will get very close and I admit that I erred previously when I said they were.   A big reason why I prefer the crossbow is because it's greater accuracy (with the same amount of training time) should lead to less wounded and unrecovered deer.  I do respect the born fighters like yourself,  who prefer the greater challenge of the vertical bows, and I fully support your continued right to use them.   

The fact that it has been more than 5 seasons since I shot a bb with any weapon is a big part of the reason that I am pushing for full-inclusion.  The wise old does around here lead their groups fully nocturnal after they detect a little early archery season pressure, so I have yet to have a chance at any antlerless deer with my crossbow.  Fortunately, a hit and run motorist left one at the end of our driveway and my buddy shot one for me two years ago, so at least we have been able to eat a couple during the lull.   

p.s, I see we have reached a hundred votes now with the last two going for full inclusion so thank you for your help in getting us over that hurdle.    

Edited April 17, 2018 by wolc123

[Five Seasons]

,   I like the current restrictions on draw weight and limb width for crossbows. 

Looks like you shouldn’t join or if already a member, quit the nycc. Because they feel differently.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hunter007]

42 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

Bumper914 also brought up the airbow, and it definitely seems to be an over-used argument by the anti-crossbow crowd.  Is that part of the NYB training ?   Maybe it is time they got a new playbook.   I would be ok with it's use in gun season, but I feel archery season should be limited to weapons with strings and arrows (or bolts).   I like the current restrictions on draw weight and limb width for crossbows.   They help keep crossbow performance comparable to compounds in terms of effective range.   Unless you can figure out how to shoot a compound from a rest with a telescopic sight there is no way compound accuracy will get very close and I admit that I erred previously when I said they were.   A big reason why I prefer the crossbow is because it's greater accuracy (with the same amount of training time) should lead to less wounded and unrecovered deer.  I do respect the born fighters like yourself,  who prefer the greater challenge of the vertical bows, and I fully support your continued right to use them.   

The fact that it has been more than 5 seasons since I shot a bb with any weapon is a big part of the reason that I am pushing for full-inclusion.  The wise old does around here lead their groups fully nocturnal after they detect a little early archery season pressure, so I have yet to have a chance at any antlerless deer with my crossbow.  Fortunately, a hit and run motorist left one at the end of our driveway and my buddy shot one for me two years ago, so at least we have been able to eat a couple during the lull.   

p.s, I see we have reached a hundred votes now with the last two going for full inclusion so thank you for your help in getting us over that hurdle.    

Wofy I  think you should ask for a longer gun season or more tags in zone 9  .

It would be much easier.  

Since it sounds like that is what you really want .

 

Edited April 17, 2018 by Storm914

[DirtTime]

On 4/16/2018 at 5:28 PM, wolc123 said:

What do you think of a compromise that would include two weeks for traditional (recurve or longbow) starting on October 1 in the southern zone, then opening up crossbow and compound on October 15, while keeping the current crossbow poundage and width restrictions, and making the archery course a requirement for all ?  

 

I'm not OK with that ( I do agree with with making the bow course mandatory for cross bow users, other then that, NOPE! ). Not all of us have the time or skill set to be efficient with a trad bow. I have tried, and it's just not in my wheel house. Not for lack of trying.

I have over and over stated my reasons for full inclusion, they are not personal, I just want people to be able to have choices, and make educated selections of the weapon of choice.

I have a compromise, if you really want to level the playing field, don't allow scopes on crossbows, rifle/iron sights only. That would put them just a smidgen closer to trad archery. Still not trad archery, or even compound territory, but would put crossbow users in the same boat as vert bow hunters. You have to pay your dues while not hurting your shoulder or back for those who have heath issues. Might keep those pesky/lazy/slob "gun hunters" from buying one.

22 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

Bumper914 also brought up the airbow, and it definitely seems to be an over-used argument by the anti-crossbow crowd.  Is that part of the NYB training ?   Maybe it is time they got a new playbook.   I would be ok with it's use in gun season, but I feel archery season should be limited to weapons with strings and arrows (or bolts).   I like the current restrictions on draw weight and limb width for crossbows.   They help keep crossbow performance comparable to compounds in terms of effective range.   Unless you can figure out how to shoot a compound from a rest with a telescopic sight there is no way compound accuracy will get very close and I admit that I erred previously when I said they were.   A big reason why I prefer the crossbow is because it's greater accuracy (with the same amount of training time) should lead to less wounded and unrecovered deer.  I do respect the born fighters like yourself,  who prefer the greater challenge of the vertical bows, and I fully support your continued right to use them.   

The fact that it has been more than 5 seasons since I shot a bb with any weapon is a big part of the reason that I am pushing for full-inclusion.  The wise old does around here lead their groups fully nocturnal after they detect a little early archery season pressure, so I have yet to have a chance at any antlerless deer with my crossbow.  Fortunately, a hit and run motorist left one at the end of our driveway and my buddy shot one for me two years ago, so at least we have been able to eat a couple during the lull.   

p.s, I see we have reached a hundred votes now with the last two going for full inclusion so thank you for your help in getting us over that hurdle.    

I am not even going to dissect this one! I am going to say this! wolc123, all you do is piggy back other peoples threads and use them to get up on your soap box. You're a very religious person correct? Doesn't the Bible say "God Helps Those Who Help Themselves"? Maybe you should have had the guts to make this poll?

[wolc123]

30 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

Wofy I  think you should ask for a longer gun season or more tags in zone 9  .

It would be much easier.  

Since it sounds like that is what you really want .

 

Atta boy/girl, keep it up we are counting on you.

26 minutes ago, Rob... said:

Maybe you should have had the guts to make this poll?

Maybe in another 6 months or so I will think about it, but it might not be necessary if bumper914 keeps up the good work.  Can you explain step by step how it is done ?  At least now the math is easy and shows that 72 % of the members of this site who have voted support full-inclusion right now.     

[Hunter007]

17 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

Atta boy/girl, keep it up we are counting on you.

Maybe in another 6 months or so I will think about it, but it might not be necessary if bumper914 keeps up the good work.  Can you explain step by step how it is done ?  At least now the math is easy and shows that 72 % of the members of this site who have voted support full-inclusion right now.     

You don't think that is because most here would rather use a gun Then anything else has something to do with those numbers do you ? Do a poll that asks , if  you could pick one either have a extra week of gun hunting.  Or a  extra week xbow hunting  Not be able to do  both .

What do you think people would pick ? You would get these same results  except it would be 70% / 80%   for gun over xbow . Alot of guys will drive farther just to hunt rifle zone over a shotgun zone.

Or are so happy they changed it in some places  

 

Edited April 17, 2018 by Storm914

[DirtTime]

24 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

Atta boy/girl, keep it up we are counting on you.

Maybe in another 6 months or so I will think about it, but it might not be necessary if bumper914 keeps up the good work.  Can you explain step by step how it is done ?  At least now the math is easy and shows that 72 % of the members of this site who have voted support full-inclusion right now.     

Explain what? How to make a poll?

 

[wolc123]

8 minutes ago, Rob... said:

Explain what? How to make a poll?

 

yes

[DirtTime]

9 minutes ago, Rob... said:

Explain what? How to make a poll?

 

 

2 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

yes

Ask God, he will tell you all you need to know.

[erussell]

According  to the polls Hillary Clinton should be president lol.

[Five Seasons]

On 4/17/2018 at 7:13 PM, wolc123 said:

Atta boy/girl, keep it up we are counting on you.

Maybe in another 6 months or so I will think about it, but it might not be necessary if bumper914 keeps up the good work.  Can you explain step by step how it is done ?  At least now the math is easy and shows that 72 % of the members of this site who have voted support full-inclusion right now.     

i don't think you quite understand statistics. You have a poll on a site with pretty low membership relative to number of hunters in NY (nearly 1 million btw). 

These 72 represent 0.0098% of all resident license holders. 

https://www.dec.ny.gov/permits/26368.html

[Culvercreek hunt club]

5 minutes ago, Belo said:

i don't think you quite understand statistics. You have a poll on a site with pretty low membership relative to number of hunters in NY (nearly 1 million btw). 

These 72 represent 0.0098% of all resident license holders. 

https://www.dec.ny.gov/permits/26368.html

16-17 license holders. 569,247

[Culvercreek hunt club]

6 minutes ago, Belo said:

i don't think you quite understand statistics. You have a poll on a site with pretty low membership relative to number of hunters in NY (nearly 1 million btw). 

These 72 represent 0.0098% of all resident license holders. 

https://www.dec.ny.gov/permits/26368.html

I agree that a poll on here, while interesting to talk about holds little meaning. Let's face it, we are on here because the majority of us have an interest level that is higher than the average hunter in NY. The cross section that exists in NY I don't believe even closely resembles that on  this forum. I wish the poll had an "indifferent" choice, because I would bet that is where most of the NY hunting public would be. Just watch the hunters' and firearms owners' indifference  come November