almost all school budgets go thru?? Big Rant!

[sits in trees]

why is it every time the teachers get a raise i gotta pay more? almost all of the school budgets in NY have been approved, well get ready to pay more folks, get ready to see more foreclosure signs in your neighborhoods folks. get ready to see more businesses scrambling to get out of NY!

how the hell can these teachers sit in their homes and in good conscience justify their salary increases and beefy benefits while their neighbors are being kicked out of their homes by banks and people are losing their homes and jobs nation wide? has this become a nation for teachers?

What more do they want????????????

i here more people bitching about their school taxes and when i ask them "did you vote on the last budget" in your town they look at me sheepishly and say no?????

people are trying to sell 250 thousand dollar homes in NY that have a 10k a year tax bill???????????how the hell is that gonna work???

last recession people in our state sold and ran south and bought a home with lower taxes, this recession they lose their home because they can't sell and move to an apartment!

where are all these T party people, anti tax increase groups, reduce government groups in our state...i saw them all summer long with signs posted at the bank about stop big Gov etc, bla , bla,.. people driving by beeping in support, chanting yea, yea, and everyone you talk to saying yea, yea i like their ideas, but then the school teachers wanna levy yer taxes by 10% and no one shows UP!!!

we are freakin DOOMED folks, get ready. i'm gonna eat teachers, i hear they're well marbled

[fasteddie]

The problem is ........ the people who are against the budgets don't go out and vote against them !

[First-light]

I'm actually very happy the budget passed, good for the kids!

[Chevy]

Salaries are big but the benefit packages are the real expense to tax payers. Teachers get the cadillac of heath care and retire with full benefits I believe. I have a good job with good health insurance but I pay alot for it and the deductibles and copays are big. And when I retire there is no more medical coverage. Medicare is the same way. for example if I need an MRI my deductible is $500 and copays after that. teachers union and medicare walk right in with little or no deductible or copays. we pay the taxes for their coverage which is better than I get. 

[steve863]

Teaching children is not always an easy job.  I think most teachers are underpaid for what they have to do and the value to society that they can be.  Yeah, not all teachers are perfect, but to me I hold there value up there with medical doctors and way above lawyers(AKA leeches).  A teachers pay surely isn't comparable to either of these.  No, no one likes to pay taxes that are excessive, but when it comes to education I think it is money well spent and money that will benefit all our futures.  We are the most advanced country under the sun, so why should our education system be worse than a third world nation? Bitching about teachers pay makes very little sense in my opinion.  Maybe we can have funds apportioned to education from other tax sources to avoid excess property tax on individuals, but I really don't think teachers are paid too much anywhere in this state.

 

[WNYBuckHunter]

How about instead of bitching about teachers, we take a look at the REAL problem with the schools today. Sports. Sorry to say it, but does every school need a team in every imaginable sport there is? Do they need giant field houses and astro turf fields with big dollar multimedia systems hooked up to HD scoreboards? My fiance is a high school coach, and most of you guys wouldnt believe what the sports programs consume budget wise. Then theres the school administrators, Superintendants making $200k and up per year? All government employees (not just in schools) getting full benefits after they retire for their entire lives? Tenure for lazy POS teachers that dont do their job and you cant get rid of them? All of that crap needs to go, period. Pay the good teachers more for all I care, as long as their performance stands up, I have no problem with them earning a great salary while they are working. Pensions and benefits after retirement though? Sorry Charlie, do like the rest of us and prepare.

[Doewhacker]

WNY you just saved me a lot of typing...thanks! Its the same where we are, astro turf field and for what? We don't have AC for the little kids and it gets hot in there, but we have every sport and astro turf and we live in the country where farm boy's and girls are used to dirt. And why on earth does a Superintendent need to make 200-300+K a year?

As a local politician said yesterday, we don't have a income problem in NY, we have a spending problem.

[First-light]

How about instead of bitching about teachers, we take a look at the REAL problem with the schools today. Sports. Sorry to say it, but does every school need a team in every imaginable sport there is? Do they need giant field houses and astro turf fields with big dollar multimedia systems hooked up to HD scoreboards? My fiance is a high school coach, and most of you guys wouldnt believe what the sports programs consume budget wise. Then theres the school administrators, Superintendants making $200k and up per year? All government employees (not just in schools) getting full benefits after they retire for their entire lives? Tenure for lazy POS teachers that dont do their job and you cant get rid of them? All of that crap needs to go, period. Pay the good teachers more for all I care, as long as their performance stands up, I have no problem with them earning a great salary while they are working. Pensions and benefits after retirement though? Sorry Charlie, do like the rest of us and prepare.

Very good point WNY, People you also have to look at who you vote for on the school board and what they stand for. There are school board members that would rather have astro turf than special Ed teachers! This is a fact so do your homework before voting for school board members!

[sits in trees]

I'm actually very happy the budget passed, good for the kids!

so we should keep throwing money at a system that has brought us from number 1 in the world in education to number 16. my God we are tied with Poland???????????

and this all happened since the late 1970s when we were on top of the world in education! a few short decades. many NY state high schools have close to a 20% dropout rate!

[sits in trees]

the whole situation gives everyone alot to bitch about but the truth that no one wants to confront is that the whole system will die a natural death, it will simply self destruct and like many things we see in nature as hunters it will self correct itself.

as tax revenues continue to decrease its just a matter of time and the process has already begun, thousands of teachers being laid off state wide despite all the additional spending, oh well

[phade]

This is a can o' worms. So many things wrong...but also so many missed and squandered opportunities.

Look at the starting gate...seriously, let's look at it realisitically. As a teacher in NYS, you need the undergraduate and then the graduate within 5 years (or at least it used to be that timeframe).

Starting pay in the Rochester area when I was seeking teaching positions...32-34k. Peanuts for 4-6 yr degrees. I remember vividly while student teaching that a very good teacher in his 14th year in one of the better paying districts was at 43k. Peanuts for a graduate level degree and 14 years of experience. And this guy had a Bowling Green education...it's a good school.

The problem is the back-end slant of teacher pay. There are several teachers in almost every suburban district making 100k-125k per year and they drain the wage funding of budgets because they are in year 30-35. The pay starts so low and then fails to ramp up until well into a career that you have one HUGE problem....brain drain. Can you attract content experts who can make 1.25-2x salary right out of the gate? Nope...and I was proof of that.

I stepped into business and took my skill sets elsewhere making way more than I'd be making as a teacher.

And, this is not necessairly a NY issue because NY ranks high in teacher pay, although that's skewed a bit by the high back end wages.

You attract lesser quality talent with low starting wages....and you suffer the consquences of that lower talent...ala slipping educationally.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

As long as we at talking layoffs and reductions in teachers.......how "great" is a system where the best and the brightest could be tossed to the curb because they don't have as many years in as some others. The seriority thing blows to put it bluntly.

And I do think many of them are over paid for what they provide. Let's take a look at my sister in law. a Librarian.....in Albany area....over 70 k with those wonderful bennies.....and let's not forget.....that is a salary that they can take over 12 months or just the months they work. So the school year runs from September through June. 10 months. now start taking off the breaks. We have winter recess and Spring break just to name two.then throw in the holidays from Christmas to wounded woodchuck day. Could probably chisel that down to about 9 months. If you figure that many of them take summer jobs too they make a pretty good annual sallary.

Now. I think the position is almost unmatched in terms of importance but in the current system we do not get the return on our investment....and that is what pissed me off. I don't mind paying for anything if the benefit is there.

[phade]

As long as we at talking layoffs and reductions in teachers.......how "great" is a system where the best and the brightest could be tossed to the curb because they don't have as many years in as some others. The seriority thing blows to put it bluntly.

And I do think many of them are over paid for what they provide. Let's take a look at my sister in law. a Librarian.....in Albany area....over 70 k with those wonderful bennies.....and let's not forget.....that is a salary that they can take over 12 months or just the months they work. So the school year runs from September through June. 10 months. now start taking off the breaks. We have winter recess and Spring break just to name two.then throw in the holidays from Christmas to wounded woodchuck day. Could probably chisel that down to about 9 months. If you figure that many of them take summer jobs too they make a pretty good annual sallary.

Now. I think the position is almost unmatched in terms of importance but in the current system we do not get the return on our investment....and that is what pissed me off. I don't mind paying for anything if the benefit is there.

Librarians are a special breed and they have to do some graduate level work that would make your teeth grind. 70k in Albany is pretty good pay, but also representative of the education and content expertise that comes with it. Remember they're disseminating knowledge in a very structured and organized way.

The amount of teachers' time away from work is always brought up, but I have to say that teachers put in some serious time (the honest ones) - it is as equal in my observations in hours spent working year-round minues two-three weeks paid vacation and the 6-10 floating holidays. Remember, they do not get much, if any, paid time off outside of those breaks.

Also, remember that many teachers HAVE to work summers to make ends meet. The above mentioned teacher at 14 years was sealing driveways and painting houses during the summer to make ends meet for his family. The pay is so low on the front end that teachers don't get the time off in the summer because they have to work. Also remember that teachers are required to perform a sizeable number of hours each year in professional improvements/training (continuing education). About the only teachers I know that are not working summers are those right at or above year 20.

The fact is the slow roll on starting pay....you have a math-minded person...why bother going into education to teach chemistry or calculus for 32-34k when they can get into an engineering or manufacturing lab and make 40-60k out of college? Why go into education to become a foreign language teacher when you can earn ten-fold translating (hello globalization!)? Why teach social studies when you can work in economics/finance or private sector historical positions for more? Why teach english when you can work in communications and fetch more?

Sure the benefits and pay may be nice at the back-end, but college kids practically need the $$$ now to pay for student loans and teh cost of life. I'm trying to pee on a fire myself (35k loan). Not all that enjoyable when your take home is less than $3k per month GROSS (teacher).

I've seen some lazy SOB teachers, as in any profession. But, I see many in the college ranks take that course...it's a popular field and overcrowded with less-than-stellar talent pools because of the low starting pay.

I'm so happy I never stepped foot in a school after graduating college - not just for the wages, but for the peace of mind. I'd have to resort to selling myself on Lyell Ave. to make ends meet (joking, of course) if I were a teacher. Well, I might not need to teach then, either, I guess

[WNYBuckHunter]

As long as we at talking layoffs and reductions in teachers.......how "great" is a system where the best and the brightest could be tossed to the curb because they don't have as many years in as some others. The seriority thing blows to put it bluntly.

And I do think many of them are over paid for what they provide. Let's take a look at my sister in law. a Librarian.....in Albany area....over 70 k with those wonderful bennies.....and let's not forget.....that is a salary that they can take over 12 months or just the months they work. So the school year runs from September through June. 10 months. now start taking off the breaks. We have winter recess and Spring break just to name two.then throw in the holidays from Christmas to wounded woodchuck day. Could probably chisel that down to about 9 months. If you figure that many of them take summer jobs too they make a pretty good annual sallary.

Now. I think the position is almost unmatched in terms of importance but in the current system we do not get the return on our investment....and that is what pissed me off. I don't mind paying for anything if the benefit is there.

Precisely why tenure needs to go, or be modified to allow for performance based reviews and give the right to the district to fire staff for lack of performance.

Now remember guys, a good chunk of our household income comes from my fiance's coaching salary and substitute teaching. She is in grad school finishing up her masters in education. Im not just a disgruntled taxpayer lol.

[phade]

As long as we at talking layoffs and reductions in teachers.......how "great" is a system where the best and the brightest could be tossed to the curb because they don't have as many years in as some others. The seriority thing blows to put it bluntly.

And I do think many of them are over paid for what they provide. Let's take a look at my sister in law. a Librarian.....in Albany area....over 70 k with those wonderful bennies.....and let's not forget.....that is a salary that they can take over 12 months or just the months they work. So the school year runs from September through June. 10 months. now start taking off the breaks. We have winter recess and Spring break just to name two.then throw in the holidays from Christmas to wounded woodchuck day. Could probably chisel that down to about 9 months. If you figure that many of them take summer jobs too they make a pretty good annual sallary.

Now. I think the position is almost unmatched in terms of importance but in the current system we do not get the return on our investment....and that is what pissed me off. I don't mind paying for anything if the benefit is there.

Precisely why tenure needs to go, or be modified to allow for performance based reviews and give the right to the district to fire staff for lack of performance.

Now remember guys, a good chunk of our household income comes from my fiance's coaching salary and substitute teaching. She is in grad school finishing up her masters in education. Im not just a disgruntled taxpayer lol.

Good luck! Tough field these days.

[132 eight pointer]

I voted no on the school budget where I live yesterday, it passed . Property taxes are going up 1/2 to 1 1/2  percent here , meanwhile the new artificial turf football field is being built at one of the high schools.Education is important but enough is enough.Also give me a break about teachers having a difficult job, many jobs are difficult and the compensation is much much lower and the days worked are much more.

[nyantler]

amen

[phade]

I voted no on the school budget where I live yesterday, it passed . Property taxes are going up 1/2 to 1 1/2  percent here , meanwhile the new artificial turf football field is being built at one of the high schools.Education is important but enough is enough.Also give me a break about teachers having a difficult job, many jobs are difficult and the compensation is much much lower and the days worked are much more.

How many of those jobs in mind do you have that require a 5-6 year degree for less than what people can make at McDonalds as an assistant manager?

[NYDeer]

I can see higher earnings for difficult stuff, math, physics, ect, but  we have someone hired for a technology dept at a premium for his skill  set, that was  later dissolved,  teaching 2nd grade for $130K+.. Over 60% of teachers are making $100k plus bennies, and I'm STILL searching for any other profession that gets 30 STEP or longetivity payments, plus annual increases.. If you know, sign me up!

[nyantler]

Not to mention our tax dollars pay for their cadillac health insurance and pension plans... which most of the tax payers don't have. Pretty good pay for a 9 month a year job.. actually 180 days if you add it up... and 5-6 years of schooling isn't all that tough... seeing how most of it is spent partying... anyone who has gone to college would even tell you its some of the best years of their life.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I voted no on the school budget where I live yesterday, it passed . Property taxes are going up 1/2 to 1 1/2  percent here , meanwhile the new artificial turf football field is being built at one of the high schools.Education is important but enough is enough.Also give me a break about teachers having a difficult job, many jobs are difficult and the compensation is much much lower and the days worked are much more.

How many of those jobs in mind do you have that require a 5-6 year degree for less than what people can make at McDonalds as an assistant manager

LOL...maybe the best and brightest aren't going into teaching then.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

I voted no on the school budget where I live yesterday, it passed . Property taxes are going up 1/2 to 1 1/2  percent here , meanwhile the new artificial turf football field is being built at one of the high schools.Education is important but enough is enough.Also give me a break about teachers having a difficult job, many jobs are difficult and the compensation is much much lower and the days worked are much more.

How many of those jobs in mind do you have that require a 5-6 year degree for less than what people can make at McDonalds as an assistant manager

LOL...maybe the best and brightest aren't going into teaching then.

Obviously! hehehehe!

[132 eight pointer]

How many teaching jobs really need a 5-6 year degree ? Where did that requirement come from ? And why did I have to correct my kids homework and explain to them what they did wrong, isn't that the teachers job? Not all difficult jobs require a 5-6 year degree. Years of experience on the job is just as valuable as having completed a college degree program yet the compensation is not there for many taxpayers that expected to dig deeper and deeper in New York.Give the teachers a raise if it is justified but don't rebuild the sports facilities and put in stadium seating if it means a tax increase.

[sits in trees]

i'm hearing the usual justifications for why teachers need to be compensated so well, yea it's the whole well our starting salaries are sooo low, we need all this education, it's real hard teaching kids anything these days etc, etc, etc....but the truth is the moneys all gone, dried up, NY state is in deep serious, serious trouble here folks! i live close to one of the nicer towns in the Hudson valley and another store just went vacant this week. for sale signs just starting to pop up everywhere! people trying to sell 600k houses for 365k and no one's coming to look!

teachers and their powerfull unions can just go on and sing their "Justify Me" song forever but it doesnt matter...for the short term they are going to and are laying off the young and brightest teachers keeping the ole "you cant fire me" ones in a job, WHAT is that going to get US!!! man these teachers unions keep telling us how important your childs education is, than prove it!!!

they say that 2000 teachers will be layed off on Long Island alone.

[sits in trees]

most of us here are a product of the NY state education system, bet you most can't write an email without spell check. third world nations are outdoing us in math and science??? most Chinese kids can name more US presidents and tell us more about the history of our nation than we can!!