Hunter safety course

[crappyice]

Looking to take my sons for their course this summer. Did some quick preliminary searches for the course near Westchester County and have come up empty when entering my zip in a search.

 

Anyone in the NYC, Bronx, Rockland, Westchester, Putnam area know of courses being offered?

 

 

 

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[grampy]

We are giving one at Woodlawn Sportsmans Club on September 22nd and 29th. It's in Albany county though, so it may be out of your range? It is filling up fast. 

My first year as an instructor too.

Do the boys have the online part of the course done?

Would love to have you, if ya can't find anything closer.

Edited July 6, 2018 by grampy

[ny hunter]

Try calling blue mountain sportsman center in montrose

[Bobonli]

Keep looking on a daily basis. Courses pop up in the middle of the day and fill up quickly. Also call Orvis up in Sandanona. I got a mass email from them recently saying they are running the courses but I did not save it. Smith Point archery in Suffolk County runs them on a regular basis. It would be a major trek from Westchester, but at least they are up on the site as being offered.

[turkeyfeathers]

If you find a course. Set alarm on phone to few minutes of when they become available to register. They fill up in minutes. Keep in mind the time to register is normally central time zone.


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[Elmo]

Looks like not till Sept.

https://www.register-ed.com/events/view/123991

 

[crappyice]

Thanks- just called a local bow shop and was informed that the state tells them when they are allowed to offer a course???? He didn’t know when his next one would be but told me to keep checking the site. Doesn’t seem to be a good system for encouraging new hunters


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[crappyice]

We are giving one at Woodlawn Sportsmans Club on September 22nd and 29th. It's in Albany county though, so it may be out of your range? It is filling up fast. 
My first year as an instructor too.
Do the boys have the online part of the course done?
Would love to have you, if ya can't find anything closer.

I am seriously considering the offer but hoping for something a bit closer- good luck with your first gig!


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[Core]

I took mine online, through PA I believe. They have (or at least had three years ago) a totally online course, and then that lets you get a NY license.

By the time I started looking for a course that year it was almost impossible to find one, hence this approach. Once I got that, I took the bowhunter course in person.

[Doc]

This sounds like a real problem. We have locked ourselves into a system that can't seem to support itself. And the future of hunting is tied directly to the system being successful. If we keep discouraging and frustrating future hunting recruits, how long can hunting continue off into the future with that additional millstone around our necks? Maybe it's time to begin some pre-emptive thinking to fix the system. Is it time for "paid" instructors? Are there other ideas that will help boost instructor participation?

[crappyice]

I took mine online, through PA I believe. They have (or at least had three years ago) a totally online course, and then that lets you get a NY license.
By the time I started looking for a course that year it was almost impossible to find one, hence this approach. Once I got that, I took the bowhunter course in person.

Looked into that immediately after your post - 16 years old or better only for online test....FOILED AGAIN!


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[crappyice]

This sounds like a real problem. We have locked ourselves into a system that can't seem to support itself. And the future of hunting is tied directly to the system being successful. If we keep discouraging and frustrating future hunting recruits, how long can hunting continue off into the future with that additional millstone around our necks? Maybe it's time to begin some pre-emptive thinking to fix the system. Is it time for "paid" instructors? Are there other ideas that will help boost instructor participation?

I guess i don’t understand the process at all. Are instructors not paid for their time? Expertise? Why do it then-altruism goes only so far when that amount of time comes into play.
Frustrating


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[Robhuntandfish]

maybe its more of a location issue.  Seems to be a lot of classes upstate available.  Maybe just less people to teach the class downstate.  

and no they are not paid, it is volunteer. And have to be certified to do so. 

Edited July 24, 2018 by Robhuntandfish

[Core]

1 hour ago, crappyice said:

Looked into that immediately after your post - 16 years old or better only for online test....FOILED AGAIN!


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That sucks, I had thought about having my daughter do it

[Steve D]

6 hours ago, crappyice said:

guess i don’t understand the process at all. Are instructors not paid for their time? Expertise? Why do it then-altruism goes only so far when that amount of time comes into play.
Frustrating

Crappy

I was a bow instructor for quite  a few years. All instructors are required to receive training from the DEC to become certified. Last I knew it was about twelve hrs. In addition when they teach a course they have to supply any equipment  they want to use for demonstrations, ie bows, tree stands arrows, sights, etc. They also have to find the place to hold the course(s) on their own. The state does not help at all other than supplying the required forms and certificates. Anyone giving a class has to get up early pack up all their stuff, take it to place, unpack it, teach the course and stay late to answer questions, score tests, and then pack up all of their stuff. They do not get compensated in anyway. It is a very demanding position that requires a lot of time and dedication. I finally gave it up because the demand for more courses cut into the personal time way to much. That is probably why it is so difficult to find a course. Because of the demand and the time involved most instructors only want to teach one or two courses a year.

[crappyice]

Crappy
I was a bow instructor for quite  a few years. All instructors are required to receive training from the DEC to become certified. Last I knew it was about twelve hrs. In addition when they teach a course they have to supply any equipment  they want to use for demonstrations, ie bows, tree stands arrows, sights, etc. They also have to find the place to hold the course(s) on their own. The state does not help at all other than supplying the required forms and certificates. Anyone giving a class has to get up early pack up all their stuff, take it to place, unpack it, teach the course and stay late to answer questions, score tests, and then pack up all of their stuff. They do not get compensated in anyway. It is a very demanding position that requires a lot of time and dedication. I finally gave it up because the demand for more courses cut into the personal time way to much. That is probably why it is so difficult to find a course. Because of the demand and the time involved most instructors only want to teach one or two courses a year.

That is unbelievable- I mean I believe you but I don’t get it. Why would anyone ever become a trainer? Or train? Why would a faculty want to host an event? The state is making the money- why not throw a chip the way of the trainer?


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[Moho81]

Crappy
I was a bow instructor for quite  a few years. All instructors are required to receive training from the DEC to become certified. Last I knew it was about twelve hrs. In addition when they teach a course they have to supply any equipment  they want to use for demonstrations, ie bows, tree stands arrows, sights, etc. They also have to find the place to hold the course(s) on their own. The state does not help at all other than supplying the required forms and certificates. Anyone giving a class has to get up early pack up all their stuff, take it to place, unpack it, teach the course and stay late to answer questions, score tests, and then pack up all of their stuff. They do not get compensated in anyway. It is a very demanding position that requires a lot of time and dedication. I finally gave it up because the demand for more courses cut into the personal time way to much. That is probably why it is so difficult to find a course. Because of the demand and the time involved most instructors only want to teach one or two courses a year.

Wow that crazy and quite eye opening to what instructors go through just to teach for free.


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[Bobonli]

I just did this over the winter. NYS has the hour requirement which includes an IN-Person class. To get to the class you either complete a workbook or that online course. The class is simply a regurgitation of the workbook or online course. As a professional educator it really pissed me off to spend time online taking the course, only to see the same content covered in-person, so I did some inquiry.

It seems the folks in Albany are concerned that completing the on-line course only can provoke fraud; in other words, you might pay someone to take the course for you! So they insist on the in-person session and the written test. 

BTW, the in person session for my general hunting course was 8 hours. The bowhunting session was about 5 hours (although it was supposed to be eight) because the host wanted the space back so they had to end early. Most of it was story telling about someone knowing someone else who fell out of a tree stand, then giving out the answers to the test before handing out the booklet.

It's not about quality or making sure people are educated. It's mindless bureaucracy. 

[crappyice]

I just did this over the winter. NYS has the hour requirement which includes an IN-Person class. To get to the class you either complete a workbook or that online course. The class is simply a regurgitation of the workbook or online course. As a professional educator it really pissed me off to spend time online taking the course, only to see the same content covered in-person, so I did some inquiry.
It seems the folks in Albany are concerned that completing the on-line course only can provoke fraud; in other words, you might pay someone to take the course for you! So they insist on the in-person session and the written test. 
BTW, the in person session for my general hunting course was 8 hours. The bowhunting session was about 5 hours (although it was supposed to be eight) because the host wanted the space back so they had to end early. Most of it was story telling about someone knowing someone else who fell out of a tree stand, then giving out the answers to the test before handing out the booklet.
It's not about quality or making sure people are educated. It's mindless bureaucracy. 

Agreed and yet there are people (like some on here I’m sure) who do the job with the intent of passing down the knowledge for the love of the sport. And they are the ones who people are going to be pissed at because they just want to get out with their paperwork.


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[Steve D]

1 hour ago, crappyice said:

That is unbelievable- I mean I believe you but I don’t get it. Why would anyone ever become a trainer? Or train? Why would a faculty want to host an event? The state is making the money- why not throw a chip the way of the trainer?

 

59 minutes ago, Moho81 said:

Wow that crazy and quite eye opening to what instructors go through just to teach for free.

A friend of mine and I teamed up and did the classes together. Who wants to listen to the same person for 6 hours. He brought his stuff, I brought mine, and we did it because we love the sport and wanted to give something back and hopefully put some ethical qualified hunters in the woods. When it got to the point we were driving 40 miles one way, and the state started dictating how many classes they expected us to have a year we decided enough was enough and gave it up. Probably the hardest part was finding a place with a classroom environment to hold the classes. That is one reason so many class are restricted to the amount that can attend.

  Most gun clubs, archery shops, and gun shops can only hold so many people and as we all know there are less and less of them every year.

 The state used to put on a dinner for all the instructors once a year and guess what....you had to pay to attend.

Another program the state is failing at as far as I am concerned.

[Doc]

The thought comes to mind that if the state screws this one up, they are directly impacting the future of hunting.....Big-time. These are some real horror stories I am hearing. We have enough of a problem with shrinking new hunter recruitment without trying to frustrate new hunters out even trying hunting out due to scarce mandatory training. Do other states handle the problem differently? Does anyone know?

I will say that I believe the courses could be streamlined by paring them down to strictly Hunter Safety Training. The courses that I have been to were very heavy on hunting training and a fair amount of random B.S. about hunting stories and experiences. That is all nice, and I enjoyed it, but never considered bull sessions as something that the state should be mandating. My feeling is that the state should not be involved in mandating anything other than hunters being exposed to "Hunting Safety", and that should not take any longer than a couple of hours.

I see it all as a massive inconvenience that you might get instructors to accept for a season or two, but I also see it as something that people would quickly be bailing out of when burn-out sets in. There has to be a better system. There should be compensation of some sort, and the courses should be stripped down to just safety training which should turn them into two hour courses.

[Core]

Definitely silly that the state mandates it but relies on unpaid instructors who need to volunteer everything.

Other states have online-only and it's a reasonable solution for those short on time. But NY tends to add more, not remove, regulation and rules when it comes to anything.

[Just Lucky]

On 7/24/2018 at 6:48 PM, crappyice said:

That is unbelievable- I mean I believe you but I don’t get it. Why would anyone ever become a trainer? Or train? Why would a faculty want to host an event? The state is making the money- why not throw a chip the way of the trainer?


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If I remember correctly the hunter safety course is free. I don't  believe anyone makes money on the course. 

I think it is great people volunteer their time for others. 

[crappyice]

If I remember correctly the hunter safety course is free. I don't  believe anyone makes money on the course. 
I think it is great people volunteer their time for others. 

In no way am I upset at the instructor offering their time and passion- that’s amazing.

However, if there are people wanting to join the hunting ranks(pay for licenses, gear, food and hotels and all other $$$ involved that NYS will be getting a portion of) they should be making that easier. The classes fill within the day of being posted with people driving hours away to attend.

With hunter number shrinking why not make it easier/show more appreciation for more to volunteer their time?

My boys just started their on-line HW yesterday-$15 per kid to register for the online version. They are doing it at the same time and I can’t imagine what the instructor can add besides the personal stories and touches (very valuable) to the info covered online.

The NYS process is overkill and inconvenient...it almost seems like NYS doesn’t like hunting!??!


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[GreeneHunter]

Try the RC Sportsmans Club - Ravena NY , they have one in September .....  https://www.rcsportsmensclub.org/