Should I ask....

[Robhuntandfish]

i have access to a small 12 acre area to hunt since last season.  Of the 12 acres 11.5 of it is fenced and has cattle (leased by a farmer).  So basically i am hunting a very tiny little area.  But this place has a lot of deer.  In fact i got a doe my very first time there last season. When i asked owner if i could hunt there they were so overwhelmed to say yes as i have known them a while. They also told me not to worry about if I got a deer to have to go onto neighbors land to get it as they would prob only ask them who was out there and it woudlnt be a problem. So went to check it out and in this little area there was a ladder treestand already. I told them about it and basically they were shocked and upset to know someone was hunting their land without permission.   The ladder stand was also put up half assed and very unsafe (didnt use the middle bar, one strap at the very top etc) .  But they found out who it was and made them move it cause i am the only one to have permission to hunt there.  (they are older and unable to go out and check their land for this sort of thing) .  It was the neighbors that have a hired hand - a kid and he was hunting it. I even told them not to bother as i didnt want to cause any problems but they insisted that this stand was gonna be moved and the other person shouldnt be out there.  So it was moved and i put up a proper stand and first night - doe down.  It went just barely onto neighbor property and i got it and no issues.  

The neighbor has 2x the size of the land and as I have been hunting there the deer use their land a lot more cause there is no cattle.  I would really like to have access to that too.  They dont hunt but they let that kid/hand hunt there.  Now this kid got a buck i had a trail cam out there during gun season and let me tell you this is no spot ANYONE should be hunting with a gun at all.  It should be bow only as it is just two big open fields and houses and a thin treeline to a creek.  

so the question is.... should i approach the neighbor about hunting there?  I would even be willing to offer a bit of $ and def would share my game as i do with any landowner (they get a nice box of any venison i butcher and a 12 pack, even if i also pay) The reason i am afraid to ask is will they say no and "stay off my land" esp since i was the cause of this kid/hand having to move his stand even though he was in the wrong.  I would def offer a safer hunt as it would be bow only including during gun season but i want nothing to do with this other fella and his scary stand and gun hunting in this spot.  Now it is a sweeeet spot.  As i have yet to see less than 8 deer everytime i have gone there out on their property.  But i dont want to lose access to recover my deer if need be.  

I am thinking of asking the person i have permission from right now to see what they think about it and what they think their neighbor would say.  What say you ........ any thoughts on this.   I have other properties to hunt that are much larger but this is a sweet little spot and a guaranteed freezer filler for does.  Not much for big bucks but it is perfect for me to hunt early season and get a doe and wait til rut for my main buck spots.   Should i take the chance and ask or just be happy with what i got.....tough call. Whatcha think ......

[Robhuntandfish]

now i should add.  Almost every evening that i have hunted the spot with permission , i watch the deer come out of woods into the field next to me.  They eventually start making their way over towards me but 75% of the time they dont til its too late to shoot.  I have been pinned in there twice last year as i didnt want to get down to go back to truck cause deer are in that field and i didnt want to get busted.  They come out into that neighbor field every night and i just hope they come my way by legal shooting light.  Most of the time they dont. 

Edited July 23, 2018 by Robhuntandfish

[First-light]

To me it will look like you are greedy and don't give hoot about that kid. It's a good way to loose the privileges you have now. I would try to get to know the kid first and become friends if that is possible and see how it plays out. Give it some time and stick to the spot you have permission to hunt. GL

[ny hunter]

Maybe just maybe this hired hand could use someone to help him... Might be the start of a new friendship... Which works out for you...

[Robhuntandfish]

7 minutes ago, First-light said:

To me it will look like you are greedy and don't give hoot about that kid. It's a good way to loose the privileges you have now. I would try to get to know the kid first and become friends if that is possible and see how it plays out. Give it some time and stick to the spot you have permission to hunt. GL

 That kid though from what they have told me isnt the best of fellas. The landowners said he had to drop out of school because of too many issues, and the way that stand was set up was scary and the fact he gun hunts in this spot is just hard to believe.  I think i need to stay clear of this fella.  If it was just a local kid etc i would be happy to help set him up and even share a stand. Was just thinking maybe if i made them a better offer it woudl get them out of this situation too and better mine.  And yes... im being greedy.  lol.   I wouldnt ever take away form a kid hunting but this guy not asking permission and just putting up a stand etc... not thinking good character here.  I have helped mentor a few people but dunno on this one.  

[WNYBuckHunter]

I would ask permission and see what happens. It doesnt make you look greedy, it makes you look like a guy that wants to do things the right way. The farm hand doesnt own the property, so there is no reason to ask him/her for any type of permission unless the landowner says that you need to. I would not say anything negative about the farm hand to the landowner, and would not mention his stand that was on the land he didnt have permission to be on. Just take the high road. Good luck, the worst they can say is no.

[First-light]

24 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

 That kid though from what they have told me isnt the best of fellas. The landowners said he had to drop out of school because of too many issues, and the way that stand was set up was scary and the fact he gun hunts in this spot is just hard to believe.  I think i need to stay clear of this fella.  If it was just a local kid etc i would be happy to help set him up and even share a stand. Was just thinking maybe if i made them a better offer it woudl get them out of this situation too and better mine.  And yes... im being greedy.  lol.   I wouldnt ever take away form a kid hunting but this guy not asking permission and just putting up a stand etc... not thinking good character here.  I have helped mentor a few people but dunno on this one.  

Totally get it. Just be careful if this kid is as bad as you say he could be trouble. To him you look greedy so if you ask for permission you may have to deal with this kid screwing around with ya, maybe not but be careful. 

[Robhuntandfish]

im the guy that is never afraid to ask the girl to dance.  lol 

But just dont want to mess up a good thing i have.  Will prob feel out the person I have permission from and see what they think about asking the neighbors. Dont mind them saying no , just dont want it to be "no and dont ever come over on our land"  course i guess with the current landowner knowing they dont care if i recover a deer from there maybe i shouldnt worry too much about that. But was thinking if I offered them a bit of $ might also be a good reason that they dont let the other fella hunt there any more.  

maybe he has even moved on at this point from last year as well - or got fired.....  

[Four Season Whitetail's]

26 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

im the guy that is never afraid to ask the girl to dance.  lol 

But just dont want to mess up a good thing i have.  Will prob feel out the person I have permission from and see what they think about asking the neighbors. Dont mind them saying no , just dont want it to be "no and dont ever come over on our land"  course i guess with the current landowner knowing they dont care if i recover a deer from there maybe i shouldnt worry too much about that. But was thinking if I offered them a bit of $ might also be a good reason that they dont let the other fella hunt there any more.  

maybe he has even moved on at this point from last year as well - or got fired.....  

Yup, I would be all over it. I would tell them you have sole permission to hunt the land next door and would like to have more room to work the deer. Offer a fair price but only if you have it alone. If the hired hand gets to hunt it then you cant offer more than some meat. Dont bring up the part of going in to get shot deer.

[Robhuntandfish]

28 minutes ago, Four Season Whitetail's said:

Yup, I would be all over it. I would tell them you have sole permission to hunt the land next door and would like to have more room to work the deer. Offer a fair price but only if you have it alone. If the hired hand gets to hunt it then you cant offer more than some meat. Dont bring up the part of going in to get shot deer.

That seems like a good approach. Thanks.  Think I am gonna ask the person I have permission about it first and maybe see if they know if that other fella is still around and then ask.

[airedale]

Personally this looks to me like it can turn into some trouble and ill feelings, from the hired hand's perspective you have already caused him lose one of his hunting spots, granted he should not have been there without having permission.

 So the farm hand has to retreat to his employer's land where he does have permission and has to hunt there only. Now you are wanting to leave the spot he had to leave and move in on the spot he has left, I would not think he will be too happy about it, something his employer will have to think about if they want to keep their help happy as farm hands these days do not grow on trees.

This is the kind of stuff I would avoid like the plague!

 

Edited July 23, 2018 by airedale

[Robhuntandfish]

I think best perspective is to first see if he is even around anymore.  If he is gone then its a layup to ask.  

And these folks only own about 26 acres and don't farm it themselves.  Think he just does some odd jobs for them.  

Edited July 23, 2018 by Robhuntandfish

[Steve D]

2 hours ago, Robhuntandfish said:

i watch the deer come out of woods into the field next to me.  They eventually start making their way over towards me but 75% of the time they dont til its too late to shoot. 

Doesn't the grass ALWAYS look greener on the other side of the fence? Ask and live with the answer good or bad.

[grampy]

I was a kid with "issues" way back when. Though I never hurt anyone but myself. Some, that know me now, might say I turned out ok. I had an old farmer, and a couple of his buddies take me under their wing. A fatherless kid just needed the right guidance. 

Perhaps this kid could use some guidance? Rob, you are in my mind, the kind of guy that could do it. I've never taken someone elses word for how someone else was. I always made my own decision after an eye to eye meeting. Many times "they" were right. Many times "they" were wrong about someone. Sometimes, we just need the benefit of doubt to prove ourselves. 

Ok, to the question at hand. Since you are very well liked by the owners of the 12 acres, understandably so, may I add. I'm sure they have talked to the neighbors, and told them about you. If not, no doubt they would do so for you. Seems like you have a wonderful opportunity to do good on the neighboring property! Even the "kid" is there, or not.

Good luck my friend.

[Jdubs]

I think you already know the answer.  You'll sleep just fine regardless of the outcome.

As for the kid, I'd strike up a conversation if the opportunity presented itself and see what you're working with.  If it were me, I'd at least offer to help him set up his stand safely in a place where he has permission to hunt and give him a safety harness if he doesn't have one.  If he isn't remotely concerned about his own safety, then it will be tough to have any productive conversation about safe shooting lanes for others.  Good luck.

[nyslowhand]

With a 12ac hunting parcel as you described, seeking retrieval rights from adjacent landowners is almost a must. I'd begin there and see how the conversation evolved. You may find out your getting into an unwanted dispute with relatives or friends of friends with the adjacent landowner. Don't need to tell you this may turn out bad!! Optimistically, could also become a blessing in disguise!?!

[Doc]

I really hate to see these kinds of battles over hunting rights. I would rather see some kind of agreement between you and this guy that results in a place for both of you to hunt. Land is getting so tight these days, and so many people now are scheming to take access away from others, it just seems like a battle that really doesn't have to be fought. There must be some kind of accommodation that can be worked out.

[Robhuntandfish]

26 minutes ago, Doc said:

I really hate to see these kinds of battles over hunting rights. I would rather see some kind of agreement between you and this guy that results in a place for both of you to hunt. Land is getting so tight these days, and so many people now are scheming to take access away from others, it just seems like a battle that really doesn't have to be fought. There must be some kind of accommodation that can be worked out.

its not a battle over hunting rights.  Not that big of a deal.  He wasnt supposed to be on the 12 acres and was trespassing- he got booted off.  I have sole hunting rights to it.  Was just gonna check on the place next door to see if they are open to letting me hunt.  And the fella that is hunting it has already tresspassed, had a stand that was a HUGE risk, and is gun hunting in a place you wouldnt even believe anyone would think about using a gun.  I dont bow hunt the property i have permission for during gun season just cause i dont want to be near this fella in this spot wiht a firearm.  

will see how it goes.  I have backed away from properties other people hunt just cause i dont want to cause a problem or give a hard time to other hunters.  But the way this fella operates makes me think he is a safety problem waiting to happen.  

[Robhuntandfish]

3 hours ago, nyslowhand said:

With a 12ac hunting parcel as you described, seeking retrieval rights from adjacent landowners is almost a must. I'd begin there and see how the conversation evolved. You may find out your getting into an unwanted dispute with relatives or friends of friends with the adjacent landowner. Don't need to tell you this may turn out bad!! Optimistically, could also become a blessing in disguise!?!

im already ok to retrieve a deer.  Landowner i have permission with said they are ok with that.  They even said they wouldnt say anything if i was out there already.  But i would be looking for the sole rights to this other place as well.  The family doesnt hunt it at all.  And i think they were just probably being nice to let this other guy hunt it.  

The person i hunt their land is not impressed by this fella out there with a gun near their house at all.  Says during season she stays inside in early morn when they know he is hunting - not cool.  I can fix that for them .... and have access to another good spot.  Will see.  I have no problem mentoring another person but am wary on this one.  I will put a feeler out there and see where it goes.  If it turned out bad i would just walk away as this isnt my main hunting spot by any means. 

[Doc]

41 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

its not a battle over hunting rights.  Not that big of a deal.  He wasnt supposed to be on the 12 acres and was trespassing- he got booted off.  I have sole hunting rights to it.  Was just gonna check on the place next door to see if they are open to letting me hunt.  And the fella that is hunting it has already tresspassed, had a stand that was a HUGE risk, and is gun hunting in a place you wouldnt even believe anyone would think about using a gun.  I dont bow hunt the property i have permission for during gun season just cause i dont want to be near this fella in this spot wiht a firearm.  

will see how it goes.  I have backed away from properties other people hunt just cause i dont want to cause a problem or give a hard time to other hunters.  But the way this fella operates makes me think he is a safety problem waiting to happen.  

Perhaps what he really needs is someone to explain the error of his ways and work with him to help him become a responsible hunter. I have encountered people while hunting that didn't seem to realize that they are doing something wrong, and I frequently take the time to explain it to them. Sometimes that is all that is needed to change attitudes.

[nyslowhand]

Interesting situation...! Let us know the outcome.

[land 1]

Well its the neighbors is a small piece and either on or two guys already hunt it, I would be happy with what you got, the other guys wont be happy if you pay and they get a the boot ... I would bet if that happen you may be missing some stands

[Doc]

One way to rip the fun right out of the hunt is to have some kind of battle with other hunters going on. I'm not saying that you should always wuss out, but sometimes going out of your way to force other hunters out can have unintended consequences. Just something else to factor into your decision.