It begins again

[Buckmaster7600]

I think you’ll see muzzleloaders in an early season before you see full inclusion. The state already looks at Xbows as muzzloaders and they’ve already made a season for the xbows. It’s already happened in the northern zone.

When this happens all the bow hunters X and vert will be wishing they left good enough alone.

I couldn’t care less either way about inclusion, won’t change my hunting at all. I’m not for it but certainly won’t lose sleep over it if it happens.

[Nomad]

I consider myself a sit down comedian, so here’s my take . I’m 60 for the last two years most days I couldn’t draw my bow, so I bought an Xbow , found it big ,heavy and clumsy in a stand ,have yet to kill a deer with it ( choice , no,buck I wanted in range don’t shot does in bow ) .

Then I bought Jeremy’s “ old “ bow because I can draw it , not only that I just held it at full draw for a timed two minutes  , keep in mind I’ve got bad shoulders and I’m at the weakest point I’ve been in my adult life , so how long Can young strong guy hold it back ? Three minutes ? More ?

I bring this up because so, many say  you don’t  have to draw a Xbow , true , but with today’s compounds you can draw two minutes or more ahead of time and wait .

With this new compound I have no plan to use the Xbow , perhaps a little as ive yet to kill one with it and it would be a learning experience.

[Jeremy K]

20 minutes ago, Stay at home Nomad said:

I consider myself a sit down comedian, so here’s my take . I’m 60 for the last two years most days I couldn’t draw my bow, so I bought an Xbow , found it big ,heavy and clumsy in a stand ,have yet to kill a deer with it ( choice , no,buck I wanted in range don’t shot does in bow ) .

Then I bought Jeremy’s “ old “ bow because I can draw it , not only that I just held it at full draw for a timed two minutes  , keep in mind I’ve got bad shoulders and I’m at the weakest point I’ve been in my adult life , so how long Can young strong guy hold it back ? Three minutes ? More ?

I bring this up because so, many say  you don’t  have to draw a Xbow , true , but with today’s compounds you can draw two minutes or more ahead of time and wait .

With this new compound I have no plan to use the Xbow , perhaps a little as ive yet to kill one with it and it would be a learning experience.

That sounds like a great advertisement for Elite archery !!!

[Jeremy K]

32 minutes ago, Stay at home Nomad said:

I consider myself a sit down comedian, so here’s my take . I’m 60 for the last two years most days I couldn’t draw my bow, so I bought an Xbow , found it big ,heavy and clumsy in a stand ,have yet to kill a deer with it ( choice , no,buck I wanted in range don’t shot does in bow ) .

Then I bought Jeremy’s “ old “ bow because I can draw it , not only that I just held it at full draw for a timed two minutes  , keep in mind I’ve got bad shoulders and I’m at the weakest point I’ve been in my adult life , so how long Can young strong guy hold it back ? Three minutes ? More ?

I bring this up because so, many say  you don’t  have to draw a Xbow , true , but with today’s compounds you can draw two minutes or more ahead of time and wait .

With this new compound I have no plan to use the Xbow , perhaps a little as ive yet to kill one with it and it would be a learning experience.

I can hold a bow back and carry on a conversation at the range , throw a deer in equation and it seems like a completely different task.

[G-Man]

Just now, Jeremy K said:

I can hold a bow back and carry on a conversation at the range , throw a deer in equation and it seems like a completely different task.

I'm surprised how many people want to hold a bow back for length of time. So bad for shoulders and back....

.perhaps it's because I grew up in a time of recurve and crappy compounds.. I draw aim release takes less than a few seconds.. I think I've let down a few times in my life but learning when to draw was about the most challenging thing in archery for me.  Now I have a system down it's a non issue, though I hear the argument well you have to draw a bow.. well you have to pick up and position an unwieldy crossbow as well.. same problems.

 

 

[Jeremy K]

3 minutes ago, G-Man said:

I'm surprised how many people want to hold a bow back for length of time. So bad for shoulders and back....

.perhaps it's because I grew up in a time of recurve and crappy compounds.. I draw aim release takes less than a few seconds.. I think I've let down a few times in my life but learning when to draw was about the most challenging thing in archery for me.  Now I have a system down it's a non issue, though I hear the argument well you have to draw a bow.. well you have to pick up and position an unwieldy crossbow as well.. same problems.

 

 

I'm pulling 62 pounds ,it's not much strain on the shoulders (yet). I'm doing drills in my basement currently ,floating the pin until I can not physically keep the pin over the spot anymore 

[G-Man]

3 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

I'm pulling 62 pounds ,it's not much strain on the shoulders (yet). I'm doing drills in my basement currently ,floating the pin until I can not physically keep the pin over the spot anymore 

Yes today's bows are 65% or more 80% let off.. I grew up with out that luxury.. most guys I know who shot 65 lbs plus back then have all gone under the knife for shoulders..  today's bow is not like the ones 30 years ago....

[Jeremy K]

1 hour ago, G-Man said:

Yes today's bows are 65% or more 80% let off.. I grew up with out that luxury.. most guys I know who shot 65 lbs plus back then have all gone under the knife for shoulders..  today's bow is not like the ones 30 years ago....

Thank god , the bow i first hunted with almost 30 years ago was a tank . I have no idea anymore what the poundage was . It was a wooden riser bow that my dad built from a kit. 

[Five Seasons]

1 hour ago, G-Man said:

I'm surprised how many people want to hold a bow back for length of time. So bad for shoulders and back....

i don't think it's want. i think sometimes these dang deer don't do what we think they're going to do. I let down on my archery buck last year because for whatever reason he slowed his walk to stand behind a bush before coming into the lane. Thankfully I was able to cleanly draw again. Wouldn't have been a concern with a crossbow though ahah.

[G-Man]

46 minutes ago, Belo said:

i don't think it's want. i think sometimes these dang deer don't do what we think they're going to do. I let down on my archery buck last year because for whatever reason he slowed his walk to stand behind a bush before coming into the lane. Thankfully I was able to cleanly draw again. Wouldn't have been a concern with a crossbow though ahah.

You would have to hold a front heavy almost 7 lbs steady.. it's not as easy as you think . My bow is 3.4 lbs.. I'd rather draw again than have to hold 7lbs ( or more ) steady for any length of time. Especially in a tree stand.. blinds are nice but not practical in many areas I hunt.. or go in a tree with a shooting stick..more stuff to drop or make noise with...

[wolc123]

4 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

I think you’ll see muzzleloaders in an early season before you see full inclusion. The state already looks at Xbows as muzzloaders and they’ve already made a season for the xbows. It’s already happened in the northern zone.

 

I do not think that early ML season would be a good idea in the southern zone.   All the additional loud "bangs", coupled with increased hunting pressure, would likely cause more deer to switch earlier to "full-nocturnal" mode.   That could very well decrease the overall deer take (archery, gun, and ML combined).  Just like with a vertical bow, the intended target deer is usually the only one that hears a crossbow go off.  When a ML, or other medium or large caliber gun goes off, most of the deer in the DMU can hear it.  Sure, there are few gun blasts made now during big-game season by small-game hunters, but I think those numbers are small compared to what would happen if ML's were allowed early for big game.     Everybody and their brother would get a ML, if there was an early big-game season for them.   

I am ok with the two weeks that the crossbow gets now, in the southern zone, before the guns come in.   Were they any other two weeks, I would not be quite as content.  I have personally done much  better with the crossbow, hunting just those two weeks over the last 5 years, than I did with a vertical bow hunting the whole season, over the 30 years prior.  The crossbow hunters up north are the ones who are really getting screwed, and so are the local merchants who depend on tourism dollars.  Under the regulations since 2014, there are only three days for the crossbow up there before the early ML season opens, and not one of them falls on the weekend.   

Finally, it seems ludicrous to me, that the archery course is not required to hunt with a crossbow.    That seems to be one point that I have not heard anyone argue against.  I don't mind the current restrictions on crossbow minimum limb width and poundage.    Maybe we will see some changes to the rules this year, but I certainly will not bank on it.   

 

1 hour ago, G-Man said:

You would have to hold a front heavy almost 7 lbs steady.. it's not as easy as you think . My bow is 3.4 lbs.. I'd rather draw again than have to hold 7lbs ( or more ) steady for any length of time. Especially in a tree stand.. blinds are nice but not practical in many areas I hunt.. or go in a tree with a shooting stick..more stuff to drop or make noise with...

There are a couple of ways around the "front-heavy" issue:   1) Get yourself a smaller, narrower crossbow.   My cheap little Barnett Recruit handles almost is easily as my Ruger 10/22 and has been 4/4 on deer and all of them dropped dead within 40 yards of taking the bolts.   2) Shooting rails - almost all ladder stands come standard with them, and it don't take much to throw some up around permanent stands.     

[sodfather]

7 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

I do not think that early ML season would be a good idea in the southern zone.   All the additional loud "bangs", coupled with increased hunting pressure, would likely cause more deer to switch earlier to "full-nocturnal" mode.   That could very well decrease the overall deer take (archery, gun, and ML combined).  Just like with a vertical bow, the intended target deer is usually the only one that hears a crossbow go off.  When a ML, or other medium or large caliber gun goes off, most of the deer in the DMU can hear it.  Sure, there are few gun blasts made now during big-game season by small-game hunters, but I think those numbers are small compared to what would happen if ML's were allowed early for big game.     Everybody and their brother would get a ML, if there was an early big-game season for them.   

I am ok with the two weeks that the crossbow gets now, in the southern zone, before the guns come in.   Were they any other two weeks, I would not be quite as content.  I have personally done much  better with the crossbow, hunting just those two weeks over the last 5 years, than I did with a vertical bow hunting the whole season, over the 30 years prior.  The crossbow hunters up north are the ones who are really getting screwed, and so are the local merchants who depend on tourism dollars.  Under the regulations since 2014, there are only three days for the crossbow up there before the early ML season opens, and not one of them falls on the weekend.   

Finally, it seems ludicrous to me, that the archery course is not required to hunt with a crossbow.    That seems to be one point that I have not heard anyone argue against.  I don't mind the current restrictions on crossbow minimum limb width and poundage.    Maybe we will see some changes to the rules this year, but I certainly will not bank on it.   

 

There are a couple of ways around the "front-heavy" issue:   1) Get yourself a smaller, narrower crossbow.   My cheap little Barnett Recruit handles almost is easily as my Ruger 10/22 and has been 4/4 on deer and all of them dropped dead within 40 yards of taking the bolts.   2) Shooting rails - almost all ladder stands come standard with them, and it don't take much to throw some up around permanent stands.     

Wolc I asked a instructor that teaches hunter safety about why don’t they consider the crossbow under the archery safety and he said cause of the scope. It will be always considered more of a gun than a bow. 

[wolc123]

2 minutes ago, sodfather said:

Wolc I asked a instructor that teaches hunter safety about why don’t they consider the crossbow under the archery safety and he said cause of the scope. It will be always considered more of a gun than a bow. 

That particular instructor might need a little more education as to how an arrow or bolt kills an animal, compared to a bullet.   (Arrows and bolts kill by cutting and bullets kill by shock).  Don't you think that the archery course should be required to hunt with a crossbow ?      

[sodfather]

Just now, wolc123 said:

That particular instructor might need a little more education as to how an arrow or bolt kills an animal, compared to a bullet.   (Arrows and bolts kill by cutting and bullets kill by shock).  Don't you think that the archery course should be required to hunt with a crossbow ?      

Yes I do think it should be but I’m not getting into it again about what I think it doesn’t affect me. I’m just saying that scope and trigger has something to do with seasoning 

[fasteddie]

2 hours ago, G-Man said:

You would have to hold a front heavy almost 7 lbs steady.. it's not as easy as you think . My bow is 3.4 lbs.. I'd rather draw again than have to hold 7lbs ( or more ) steady for any length of time. Especially in a tree stand.. blinds are nice but not practical in many areas I hunt.. or go in a tree with a shooting stick..more stuff to drop or make noise with...

BS . You can sit in a treestand and rest the forearm on the rail and the buttstock on your leg . I use a bipod in the stands that don't have the shooting rail . No reason to hold 7 pounds steady doing this . Using some smarts goes a long way ! 

[bugsNbows]

Just for the record... today’s crossbow projectiles are arrows, not bolts. 

[fasteddie]

2 hours ago, bugsNbows said:

Just for the record... today’s crossbow projectiles are arrows, not bolts. 

The carton that my Crossbow Bolts were in says "Crossbow Bolts" . Apparently you know something that the manufacturer doesn't know . 

[The_Real_TCIII]

The technical term for them is "Shortcut darts"

[fasteddie]

4 minutes ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

The technical term for them is "Shortcut darts"

Thet thar is a gud'un ! 

[Five Seasons]

16 hours ago, G-Man said:

You would have to hold a front heavy almost 7 lbs steady.. it's not as easy as you think . My bow is 3.4 lbs.. I'd rather draw again than have to hold 7lbs ( or more ) steady for any length of time. Especially in a tree stand.. blinds are nice but not practical in many areas I hunt.. or go in a tree with a shooting stick..more stuff to drop or make noise with...

fair enough. I don't think it's significantly different than holding a heavy ass 12 gauge (thanks onondaga county). I'd rather hold my gun up with an elbow proped against the tree, or even better use the rest on a ladder stand then be at full draw.

[G-Man]

16 hours ago, fasteddie said:

BS . You can sit in a treestand and rest the forearm on the rail and the buttstock on your leg . I use a bipod in the stands that don't have the shooting rail . No reason to hold 7 pounds steady doing this . Using some smarts goes a long way ! 

I use hang ons there is no rail. Platform is small and slotted keeping bi pod or monochrome pod foot on slot is pretty hard 1in wide . I have stands in multiple trunk trees you can use vertical bow in but crossbow limbs will hit trees either side. Not everyone uses a ladder.. and they would not work in most trees I hunt out of.  Multiple limbs would be in way. And I still dont uunder how when holding the crossbow up your resting butt on your leg , I'm not a contortionist.  

[G-Man]

2 hours ago, Belo said:

fair enough. I don't think it's significantly different than holding a heavy ass 12 gauge (thanks onondaga county). I'd rather hold my gun up with an elbow proped against the tree, or even better use the rest on a ladder stand then be at full draw.

Maybe it's because I'm short but rails on stands would not allow me do draw and aim my bow with out hitting them. I draw aim and shoot in identical fashion to a long bow or recurve. I dont think that holding at draw is logical or necessary.  I set my stands for 1/4 away shots ( this means deer comes from behind me and I draw in its blind spot. No need for it to go behind tree or waiting for it to step out. 

[G-Man]

17 hours ago, sodfather said:

Wolc I asked a instructor that teaches hunter safety about why don’t they consider the crossbow under the archery safety and he said cause of the scope. It will be always considered more of a gun than a bow. 

It was classified as a muzzleloader because you need to use a weapon for I believe 3 or 5 years before you can be an instructor for it.. no one could of taught it as it wasnt legal. By listing as muzzleloader it was able to be used. The progression to using and listing it as a archery equipment is simply the next step in making full inclusion possible and archery course required.  As for scope and trigger you can put scope on bow and any release your using is a trigger....

[WNYBuckHunter]

23 hours ago, Jeremy K said:

That stand up comedian has as much knowledge on the subject as anyone that's going to chime in on this thread.

Yep, its his opinion, nothing more, nothing less. Presenting it as some type of fact to back up an argument is what makes it worthless.

[Five Seasons]

31 minutes ago, G-Man said:

Maybe it's because I'm short but rails on stands would not allow me do draw and aim my bow with out hitting them. I draw aim and shoot in identical fashion to a long bow or recurve. I dont think that holding at draw is logical or necessary.  I set my stands for 1/4 away shots ( this means deer comes from behind me and I draw in its blind spot. No need for it to go behind tree or waiting for it to step out. 

these are ideal and we all try to do that. my whole original point is that deer dont always do what we want them to. this creates conditions that any archer on this board worth his salt has been in. holding their draw for longer than they'd normally want or plan to.

the magic of hunting if you ask me.