School me on tractors

[BigVal]

Hi guys I am looking for a tractor to use for mostly brush hogging and some light food plot work. It will have a loader for work around the house but what is the best option for an older rig? Not really looking for something brand new with payments right now since I am remodeling the entire house lol. Just something reliable and able to do the listed tasks. Any info appreciated!

[philoshop]

That's a tough one, Val. Until people die or become incapacitated they don't generally sell their tractors. Even if they buy a newer and bigger one, they tend to hang onto the smaller and handier one.

The only advice I can offer is to do your homework and don't buy something that's too small for what you want it to do. It takes a pretty substantial tractor to work an 8' brush-hog or a 3-bottom plow. A 4' brush-hog or a small disc setup requires less tractor. The other thing would be to learn a bit about tractor maintenance so you can spot potential difficulties up front before you buy.Various oil and hydraulic leaks are tell-tales. Best of luck to you!

[G-Man]

35 to 40 hp is minimum i would look for, 2 wheel drive is fine if your fairly flat terrain.  Loader is nice but you will need counter weight if your not use to tractor,

Geared!!! Not hydrostatic 

Ag tires !!!! Not industrial or turf.. if you want a lawnmower those are tires for it they dont belong on a tractor!!

Look at gallons per minute on hydraulic pump the higher the number the more you can lift. 

That being said ....If you doing small plots 1/4 to 1/2 and brush hogging you may get by with a Ford 8n. A 2 bottom plow , small disc harrow and brush hog.  They are common and are 25 hp or so and low to ground for woods work . They are a good starter tractor. Jubilee, 9n , are new slightly more hp and available.  Old internationals if converted to 3pt hitch like the 300 or 400 utility are 30 hp plus and are effective and have wide front ends lower to ground and more stable..if not converted for 3pt the 2 pt quckhitch equipment can be hard to find or you can find deal where everything comes with.. .

If your not sure what your looking at the Nebraska test will give you tons of data on older tractors  and show true hp tested on. Draw bar and pto...  https://tractortestlab.unl.edu/

 

Edited July 16, 2019 by G-Man

[wolc123]

Something like a Ford 2000, or 3000 would be just about right for you, and might be found used, in good condition, for around $ 4000.  These were made with gas and diesel engines, were around 28 and 35 hp, were very reliable, and still have good parts availability.   They are two wheel drive, which is not the best on a front loader, but will do a great job on a five foot brush hog.   When I had one of those, I made a rear loader, using a 3-point pond scoop, a 3-point boom, and a couple pieces of angle iron.  It worked surprisingly well.    

The problem with a front loader, on a rear-wheel drive tractor, is that you loose traction as you add weight to the loader.  Because of that issue, most old two-wheel drive tractors with front loaders have had the snot pounded out of them, as owners try and use "momentum" to fill the bucket, resulting in busted welds and lots of wear and tear.   The rear loader eliminated that issue.  It is not that difficult to find a good, used 2 wheel drive tractor that has never had a loader on it.   Finding one with a front loader, in good condition, is much tougher.

You might find a good condition  9n, 2n, or 8n Ford for under $ 2000, but those are horrible on a bush-hog because they lack live hydraulics.   An over-running coupler will get them around the issue of no live pto, but the lack of live hydraulics (means you can't lift the implement when your foot is on the clutch) is a real handicap on a bush hog.   That said, there are few tractors that perform better on a 2-bottom plow than an old Ford n-series.   Their hydraulics were simple and nearly indestructible.

In between the n-series and the 2000/3000 Fords, were the Jubilee and the 600 series.  These get you live hydraulics, but that was a bit less dependable than the non-live system on the n's, and not quite as good of parts availability as the n's or the 2000/3000 series.  My the time the 2000/3000 sreies came along, they got all the bugs worked out of the hydraulics.

G-man is correct with his recommendation of Ag (R1) tires.  Around 90 % of modern, 4wd CUT's are sold with industrial (R4) tires, which provide traction on soft ground almost as bad as turfs, quickly loading up and becoming "slicks" when a little mud is contacted.    A 2wd tractor, with loaded R1 tires, will produce about the same traction force on soft ground as an equal weight 4wd tractor with R4 tires.   That is quite a waste of an expensive front drive axle in my opinion.    

When buying an old tractor, check out the condition of the rear tires and clutch.   Either of those is big money to replace.  If you go real old (like a Ford n-series), look for one that still starts good on 6-volts.   Those that have been converted to 12 volts were often to make up for weak compression.   Good luck

       

[Nomad]

Farm just grabbed a new one, it was about $350,000 ,is that too much ?

Id post a pic, but it seems I can no longer ,which is making me hardly even look at the site anymore .

[wolc123]

22 minutes ago, BeIo said:

Farm just grabbed a new one, it was about $350,000 ,is that too much ?

Id post a pic, but it seems I can no longer ,which is making me hardly even look at the site anymore .

Outch, that would make it tough to keep the cost of venison under $ 1.00 per pound.  That is always my goal, when it comes to food-plots, after subtracting all input costs.  I don't usually count the cost of the tractor though, since one of those is needed for property maintenance, even if you do not put in food plots.

Edited July 16, 2019 by wolc123

[Nomad]

It’s a several thousand acre farm , deer are a pest, nobody’s making food plots to attract them .

[G-Man]

3 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

Outch, that would make it tough to keep the cost of venison under $ 1.00 per pound.  That is always my goal, when it comes to food-plots, after subtracting all input costs.  I don't usually count the cost of the tractor though, since one of those is needed for property maintenance, even if you do not put in food plots.

All depends how you write it off all in one year or over period of years.. my friends father bought a new gun for Turkey, vest,calls, ammo, camo, ect.. figure 1st bird cost him about 75 bucks a lb. After that they were next to nothing a lb

[Lawdwaz]

12 minutes ago, BeIo said:

 

Id post a pic, but it seems I can no longer ,which is making me hardly even look at the site anymore .

I'm sure that's just a glitch.......maybe one of the (formerly) active moderators can lend a hand to a friend in need?

[Nomad]

Ya when I try it says contact moderator or something . I contacted a mod and he passed it on to,owner ,that was a couple weeks ago .

[Steuben Jerry]

1 hour ago, wolc123 said:

Something like a Ford 2000, or 3000 would be just about right for you, and might be found used, in good condition, for around $ 4000.  These were made with gas and diesel engines, were around 28 and 35 hp, were very reliable, and still have good parts availability.   They are two wheel drive, which is not the best on a front loader, but will do a great job on a five foot brush hog.   When I had one of those, I made a rear loader, using a 3-point pond scoop, a 3-point boom, and a couple pieces of angle iron.  It worked surprisingly well.    

The problem with a front loader, on a rear-wheel drive tractor, is that you loose traction as you add weight to the loader.  Because of that issue, most old two-wheel drive tractors with front loaders have had the snot pounded out of them, as owners try and use "momentum" to fill the bucket, resulting in busted welds and lots of wear and tear.   The rear loader eliminated that issue.  It is not that difficult to find a good, used 2 wheel drive tractor that has never had a loader on it.   Finding one with a front loader, in good condition, is much tougher.

You might find a good condition  9n, 2n, or 8n Ford for under $ 2000, but those are horrible on a bush-hog because they lack live hydraulics.   An over-running coupler will get them around the issue of no live pto, but the lack of live hydraulics (means you can't lift the implement when your foot is on the clutch) is a real handicap on a bush hog.   That said, there are few tractors that perform better on a 2-bottom plow than an old Ford n-series.   Their hydraulics were simple and nearly indestructible.

In between the n-series and the 2000/3000 Fords, were the Jubilee and the 600 series.  These get you live hydraulics, but that was a bit less dependable than the non-live system on the n's, and not quite as good of parts availability as the n's or the 2000/3000 series.  My the time the 2000/3000 sreies came along, they got all the bugs worked out of the hydraulics.

G-man is correct with his recommendation of Ag (R1) tires.  Around 90 % of modern, 4wd CUT's are sold with industrial (R4) tires, which provide traction on soft ground almost as bad as turfs, quickly loading up and becoming "slicks" when a little mud is contacted.    A 2wd tractor, with loaded R1 tires, will produce about the same traction force on soft ground as an equal weight 4wd tractor with R4 tires.   That is quite a waste of an expensive front drive axle in my opinion.    

When buying an old tractor, check out the condition of the rear tires and clutch.   Either of those is big money to replace.  If you go real old (like a Ford n-series), look for one that still starts good on 6-volts.   Those that have been converted to 12 volts were often to make up for weak compression.   Good luck

       

Good post Wolc!

[goosifer]

2 hours ago, wolc123 said:

Something like a Ford 2000, or 3000 would be just about right for you, and might be found used, in good condition, for around $ 4000.  These were made with gas and diesel engines, were around 28 and 35 hp, were very reliable, and still have good parts availability.   They are two wheel drive, which is not the best on a front loader, but will do a great job on a five foot brush hog.   When I had one of those, I made a rear loader, using a 3-point pond scoop, a 3-point boom, and a couple pieces of angle iron.  It worked surprisingly well.    

The problem with a front loader, on a rear-wheel drive tractor, is that you loose traction as you add weight to the loader.  Because of that issue, most old two-wheel drive tractors with front loaders have had the snot pounded out of them, as owners try and use "momentum" to fill the bucket, resulting in busted welds and lots of wear and tear.   The rear loader eliminated that issue.  It is not that difficult to find a good, used 2 wheel drive tractor that has never had a loader on it.   Finding one with a front loader, in good condition, is much tougher.

You might find a good condition  9n, 2n, or 8n Ford for under $ 2000, but those are horrible on a bush-hog because they lack live hydraulics.   An over-running coupler will get them around the issue of no live pto, but the lack of live hydraulics (means you can't lift the implement when your foot is on the clutch) is a real handicap on a bush hog.   That said, there are few tractors that perform better on a 2-bottom plow than an old Ford n-series.   Their hydraulics were simple and nearly indestructible.

In between the n-series and the 2000/3000 Fords, were the Jubilee and the 600 series.  These get you live hydraulics, but that was a bit less dependable than the non-live system on the n's, and not quite as good of parts availability as the n's or the 2000/3000 series.  My the time the 2000/3000 sreies came along, they got all the bugs worked out of the hydraulics.

G-man is correct with his recommendation of Ag (R1) tires.  Around 90 % of modern, 4wd CUT's are sold with industrial (R4) tires, which provide traction on soft ground almost as bad as turfs, quickly loading up and becoming "slicks" when a little mud is contacted.    A 2wd tractor, with loaded R1 tires, will produce about the same traction force on soft ground as an equal weight 4wd tractor with R4 tires.   That is quite a waste of an expensive front drive axle in my opinion.    

When buying an old tractor, check out the condition of the rear tires and clutch.   Either of those is big money to replace.  If you go real old (like a Ford n-series), look for one that still starts good on 6-volts.   Those that have been converted to 12 volts were often to make up for weak compression.   Good luck

       

Hey Wolc, not to hijack this thread too much, but would you have any thoughts as to where the JD 955 fits in your world of tractors above. Just curious as I bought a used one this year. Thanks.

[G-Man]

11 minutes ago, goosifer said:

Hey Wolc, not to hijack this thread too much, but would you have any thoughts as to where the JD 955 fits in your world of tractors above. Just curious as I bought a used one this year. Thanks.

[goosifer]

Just now, G-Man said:

Yes, I've seen this page. Thank you. Was just hoping for the comparative / relative commentary. I suppose I could try to figure that out myself, but given Wolc's grasp of the key issues, I thought I'd ask him for his thoughts.

[G-Man]

1 minute ago, goosifer said:

Yes, I've seen this page. Thank you. Was just hoping for the comparative / relative commentary. I suppose I could try to figure that out myself, but given Wolc's grasp of the key issues, I thought I'd ask him for his thoughts.

Old tractors were rated by hp on drawbar. New are by motor.. farmers buy by hp on drawbar as motor hp is misleading  , yours shows 30 hp but is really only 23 

[goosifer]

1 minute ago, G-Man said:

Old tractors were rated by hp on drawbar. New are by motor.. farmers buy by hp on drawbar as motor hp is misleading  , yours shows 30 hp but is really only 23 

well that's disappointing. thanks.

[G-Man]

13 minutes ago, goosifer said:

well that's disappointing. thanks.

For example an 8n.. note no hp for.motor just drawbar and pto claimed and actually tested.. 

[wolc123]

1 hour ago, goosifer said:

Hey Wolc, not to hijack this thread too much, but would you have any thoughts as to where the JD 955 fits in your world of tractors above. Just curious as I bought a used one this year. Thanks.

Not a bad machine.  My father has the next smaller model (in a 2wd) and it has been pretty dependable.   He has used it for about 20 years, mostly to cut about 10 acres of lawn.  The deck wore out completely this year, and he picked up a big zero-turn.  His ground is very well drained and 4wd is not necessary over there.  I put in a couple small foodplots over there with it.  It does ok with turf tires, pulling a 6 ft disk.  He puts chains on it in the winter for snowplowing.   

He also has my grandad's old JD M over there, with loaded R1 tires, which I use with the stock 2-bottom plow for breaking new ground.   That was the first tractor on our farm, replacing a team of horses back in 1951.   The 955 is actually a "rebadged" Yanmar tractor, mostly made in Japan.   Personally, I prefer the "real" JD's like that old M, or my own own 4120.  I bought it new in 2005, when you could still get a small tractor with an American-made JD-Powertech engine.    

Other than a needing a new starter and battery, the 4120 has been trouble free.   With R1 tires (rears loaded), and 4wd, the traction force that it can develop, in all conditions, is amazing.   It will push mountains of snow with no chains and I have never got it stuck in the mud.   On the few times that I came close, it was very easy to pull or push myself out with the loader.  

The only thing I miss on it is "draft" hydraulic control while plowing dirt.   A 2-bottom plow is the only food-plot  tool that I have which benefits from "draft" control.   That allows the plow to maintain uniform depth over uneven conditions.   That is why, as long as the ground is fairly dry, I still like to use my 1951 Ford 8n for plowing food plots.  As long as I keep that little lever under the seat in the "down" position (for draft control), that tractor maintains amost perfectly uniform plowing depth.   It is another story when it is wet however.  It is amazing to see the wakes roll off the plow as I pull it right thru holes of standing water with the 4wd, R1-tired, JD 4120, while never breaking traction.             

Edited July 17, 2019 by wolc123

[BigVal]

15 hours ago, BeIo said:

Farm just grabbed a new one, it was about $350,000 ,is that too much ?

Id post a pic, but it seems I can no longer ,which is making me hardly even look at the site anymore .

Yea my neighbors have a few like that , huge expensive machines. Cool stuff but doesn't make sense for me. 

[BigVal]

Thanks for the responses guys gman and wolc those posts ate very helpful and appreciated I'll be looking for one to pop up for sale. 

[Otto]

I searched for a used tractor for almost a whole year, driving all over the place.  After a handshake deal gone bad, I went to the local John Deere/Kubota dealer and they had at least 10 used models for me to choose from, all ready to use and at a decent price.  You can certianly save money with a private sale, but if you need a tractor today or this season, and/or you don't have a lot of tractor experience, try a local dealer.  (I used Cazenovia Equipment)  

[dbHunterNY]

18 hours ago, BeIo said:

Farm just grabbed a new one, it was about $350,000 ,is that too much ?

Id post a pic, but it seems I can no longer ,which is making me hardly even look at the site anymore .

he's looking for something under 150 HP i think.

[Steuben Jerry]

Currently on Craigslist in Bath, NY. Not mine or owned by anyone I know. Just checked C'list and it was one of the first ones that popped up .

https://elmira.craigslist.org/grd/d/bath-1949-ford-8n/6916025764.html

[philoshop]

Just a couple of weeks ago I was given control of a 4-wheel drive Steiger with pony tires on it making it 8-wheel drive.  I was pulling a 12 or 14 bottom plow, a 20' disc, and a 20' "clod chopper" behind that thing at the same time. What a beast. A million dollar plus rig altogether. It wouldn't mow my lawn though. And it wouldn't be any good for hauling firewood out of my back lot. Choose the correct tool for the job.

Most tractors have been well-maintained. There are exceptions.  It's just part of being a tractor owner. You take care of your truck and your tractor because they're tools that you use.

[wolc123]

18 hours ago, Steuben Jerry said:

Currently on Craigslist in Bath, NY. Not mine or owned by anyone I know. Just checked C'list and it was one of thatthe first ones that popped up .

https://elmira.craigslist.org/grd/d/bath-1949-ford-8n/6916025764.html

That 8n would be an ok pick for a food plot tractor depending on condition.   It's biggest weakness is the lack of live hydraulics, as explained in my earlier post.  If the clutch is good and it has not been converted to 12 volts and still starts good on 6, then $ 2 k would be a fair price.   The $ 2.4 k asking price seems a bit on the steep side, based on the worn and weather checked rear tires.

Even though it lacks live hydraulics, it will do ok on a 5 foot bush-hog if you add an overrunning coupler on the pto (those are only about $ 75 at Tractor Supply).  The pre-1948 n-series (9n's & 2n's) lacked position control on the hydraulics which made them much worse on a bush-hog.   

 That 1949 8n would have a front distributer and no proof/hourmeter which makes maintenance a little more difficult than the later models, like my own 1951.  There are some things that I like better about my 8n than just about any modern one, including: 1) Parts availability - since the Ford n-series was produced in greater numbers than any other make/model, nothing else comes close here.  2) Durability/Simplicity - The fact that it has been 70 years since they have been made and so many are still in service is pretty good "proof" of that.  3) Ease of attaching implements - This was the first mass-produced tractor with a 3-point hitch and it's compact size makes hitching up almost any implement an easy task.  4) Silent running, efficient gasoline motor - Gas has almost always been less expensive and easier to get than diesel.   It also does not need a block-heater for smooth starting on the coldest days of winter.  5) Ease of getting on or off the seat from the left or right side - This is a big advantage for many tasks, such as operating a planter where seed and fertilizer must be added.   6) Has "draft" and "position" control on the hydraulics.