Our Biggest Problem as NY Hunters...

[bubba]

Do you know if there is still spots open cause i know a few people that want to get their license, and ya i know where it is im a member, greg lives right around the corner from me

there is a class in gouverneur at southwest tech that had 15 openings as of today. it starts friday night. I dont have the number

[132 eight pointer]

My son is 18 1/2 and just started college.While I had always hoped he and I would hunt together one day , I knew years ago it wasn't going to happen.Just not in his personality to kill anything. I don't have a problem with that,hunting is a personal choice.We target shoot,hike and eat venison together so that is fine.My 15 year old nephew scored 100 % on his hunting safety course test and I told him I would take him deer hunting this year.I hope we can go and that he likes it.I will never forget hunting with my uncle.All we can do is try.

[nyantler]

Unfortunately you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink... we can only introduce hunting to the younger generation. But like it was for us it is up to that generation to carry on after we are long gone... whether or not the hunting tradition lives on depends soley on our youngsters keeping up with things after we're gone.. that remains to be seen.. not by us obviously ... we won't be here...

[Rev Ev]

I'm 28, and aside from the obvious other things that distract us from hunting, I gotta say the two biggest things that I have encountered that have hindered my hunting: the startup cost of all the gear (if you aren't getting hand me downs). I shot a 20 year old bow for 3 years before I saved up enough to get something decent. Now I gotta save for a new MZ. I have a master's and a decent job, but life ain't cheap. The other thing I have found that makes it difficult is finding guys that will take you under your wing and teach. I know nothing of waterfowl, want to learn, but not many people want to take a noob to their blind. That means I gotta DIY or higher a guide, which I've done both, again hitting into the pocket book. I'm not trying to complain, and I love the feeling of "doing it all on my own." i was just maybe trying to give some insight from my generation into why there are less of us in the fields.

[growalot]

rev ev...your right...our daughter dropped getting her tags due to increase in cost and her lack of time to make it worth while ...even though she has all the equipment...and I've put out feelers to ppl on waterfowl hunting but gotten no bites ...makes me miss gramps ...not that I'd even want to go out with them but just a cup of coffee and a talk through getting started....

[G-Man]

I wonder if this is actually the biggest problem or if its hunting access? I mean if you could take your kids/friends onto private property where they would have a much safer experiance that would create more hunters, plus how many have given up after close calls on stateland?? Age may be a factor... to a point.... but its tough to recruit new hunters if you dont really have a good place to take them regardless of their age!!

[Doc]

I wonder if this is actually the biggest problem or if its hunting access? I mean if you could take your kids/friends onto private property where they would have a much safer experiance that would create more hunters, plus how many have given up after close calls on stateland?? Age may be a factor... to a point.... but its tough to recruit new hunters if you dont really have a good place to take them regardless of their age!!

The list of contributors to the decline of hunting is pretty darn long and it's hard to point to any one thing and say that it is the "biggest problem". That is why no one has come up with a solution that will turn the decline around. There are a lot of suggestions that kind of pick around the corners of what we perceive as big problems, but there is nothing yet that will serve as the magic bullet and restore hunting to a universally accepted activity again. Frankly, I don't see anything as ever having any permanent impact on the future of hunting. It's a systemic thing that is a bit too huge to realistically be changed.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I wonder if this is actually the biggest problem or if its hunting access? I mean if you could take your kids/friends onto private property where they would have a much safer experiance that would create more hunters, plus how many have given up after close calls on stateland?? Age may be a factor... to a point.... but its tough to recruit new hunters if you dont really have a good place to take them regardless of their age!!

G-. I can't speak to the down state area but in 5,6,7 and 8 regions I don'[t see this. The state land does get quite a bit of activity on opening week but I know of 2,000 acre blocks with no cars near them after that. I gre uop hunting state land and I can remember lines of tail lights headed into the early morning on opening day. I don't see that type of traffic anymore.

As far as youth in the sport.... they do have a lot of distractioins. I remember playing sports and there were gaps in the seasons. Now it is football running in to b-ball season.....soccer ..indoor...travel teams...these things are year round activities the kilds are in. I hate to say it but,Doc, the one thing that might actually help the outdoor sports would be a tumble of the market and a deep long run recession. so many distractions cropped up during the boom and the truely simple things of the outdoors lost their appeal to many. Just another thought. I know there is no magic bullet but when I think back on the guys I knew that taught me and I gre up around, many were depression kids....or kids of depression kids. the distractions were not there and it actually had a real life benefit to the sport....a full stomach. I have to say that with some of the years I have had in the last 5 I am glad my family isn't depending on my ability...lol. but there was a day when manys did.

[steve863]

G-. I can't speak to the down state area but in 5,6,7 and 8 regions I don'[t see this. The state land does get quite a bit of activity on opening week but I know of 2,000 acre blocks with no cars near them after that. I gre uop hunting state land and I can remember lines of tail lights headed into the early morning on opening day. I don't see that type of traffic anymore.

Funny, but I agree with both of you. I think G-Man is right. Private land access is a problem for many. Many people, including myself would much rather hunt private land than public. Many people have even given hunting up because they didn't have private land to hunt. Bringing a kid to public land doesn't sit well with many of us, thus we probably wouldn't bring them. On the other hand I think Culver is right, too. I think the perceptions many of us have of public land is from what we saw in the past, when there were scores of hunters on it. These days, just as Culver points out, thousands upon thousands of acres of public land remains almost untouched a few days after opening day. It's not easy for people used to private land to motivate themselves to hunt public land, BUT, if one really wants A place to hunt, there really isn't any shortage of it to be perfectly honest.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

Video killed the radio star...

[Dom]

thers nothing wrong with state land hunting its alot safer now then years past I take my kids and nephews we have alot of fun just remember to use your orangehats and vests we are lucky to still have the stateland take a child every chance you get

[G-Man]

Thats what i was going for ...the person u use to hunt private land and lost it but won't hunt stateland due to perception of crowds and unsafe conditions. they wont introduce kids because they feel they dont have a place to hunt...

[Dom]

I have about 1000 acres only 4 miles frrom home allmost all of our hunting is done there bow season is not busy only the first two days of shot gun lots of space no need to hunt private weve only got 14 of private small but nice on lazy days

[Doc]

I hate to say it but,Doc, the one thing that might actually help the outdoor sports would be a tumble of the market and a deep long run recession.

OK ...... That'll be enough of that kind of talk!

I know what you're saying. While we never think we have enough, there really is a whole lot of money around to buy distractions ..... for both kids and adults. By the way, I don't know whether I mentioned this or not, but diminishing youth hunters is not the only problem. We are losing adult hunters as well. At least that is what I see in my circle of aquaintances. And those are the people that would historically be the ones dragging in the kids. But just like the kids, adults have found other means of recreation and entertainment. The problem is that if you had a long-term crap in the economy, you might find a few more hunters here and there, but you also might find a whole lot more crime and such. The kids that you would like to coerce into hunting might be entertaining themselves by holding up the local 7-11..... .

Land access: yes we have an abundance of hunting land, and no it may not be land that we would prefer to use. However, for introductory purposes, it probably is adequate. Yes, some of it can be a bit crowded, but there are ways around some of that such that you have a chance of avoiding the crowds. The state land that I hunt does have some additional pressures that I don't think most have. A dense system of mountain bike trails have been built and of course hoards of bikers and also hikers use it whenever the weather permits. The hill never does get a rest from constant pressure. But while it is no where near as good for hunting as it used to be, I still manage to blunder into a deer every once in a while.....lol. Let's put it this way ..... it hasn't driven me out of hunting yet. I guess I'm just hardcore.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I am not wishing for a tumble either Doc. But I am seeing many cut backs in the school systems and things like the sports programs snd Drivers Ed seem to be the things hit first.

I didn't really want to add another real downer to the downfall of participation but back not to long ago Mom stayed home. and that ties into the other point you made about adult participation. Heck look at golf. growing up I didn't know anyone that golfed...seems like everyone does now...lol

If you really want to take a look at things to check their effect on this...how about divorce rate and how unstable many families are these days. Again...I don't think I knew any kids in single parent homes unless it was from a death. Kinda hard for an absent father to do much of anything especially take the time to fit hunting with the kids in.

Just more fodder. THat is the thing I like about these threads....does kinda make you think....and if nothing else...think back.

[steve863]

If you really want to take a look at things to check their effect on this...how about divorce rate and how unstable many families are these days.

That is for darned sure!! What is the divorce rate? Close to 50%? I doubt hunting is top priority for most of these families. Stuff like this is surely NOT PETA's fault either or any other such anti-hunting group who many like to blame for huntings demise. The times are just changing and hunting in not what it once was for people. If we want to take it even further, since when has hunting actually become a pastime? Maybe since the early 1900's in this country although in europe it may have started earlier by the nobility. The rest of time in human history hunting was done for either subsistence or for market hunting. So why should anyone think that hunting as we have known it in our lifetimes has been something that has been around forever?? It surely has not been. So maybe it's simply a human pastime that is slowly just going by the wayside with other new things coming in to fill humans needs for enjoyment??

[Doc]

Like I said, the list of reasons is very large, but do not belittle the part that animal rights groups have played in changing attitudes toward hunting. Those that are educating our youth and who also carry an anti-hunting agenda are getting their material from somewhere. It is also the animal rights freaks that are constantly keeping the issue of hunting before the public. I believe I have seen a definite change in attitude against hunting, and a general attitude of hunting being a low-brow activity that the social elite feel that we should have evolved past. These are the talking points of the animal rights activists, and more and more you hear them being parroted back to us by segments of the public that aren't even officially involved with these groups. In other words, those attitudes are slowly but surely becoming instituted into general public attitudes. The Bambi-ism message sticks, and it is the animal rights wackos that are peddaling that message.

So let's not ignore these people even though their message seems ridiculous and uneducated to us, it sure is having it's effect when people decide whether hunting is something they want to be a part of or not. Kids don't feel that hunting, fishing and trapping are cool anymore? ..... That attitude has been sold to them by animal rights people and their converts.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Whe my daughter was in second grade her teacher was vocal about how it was cruel to kill animals. she is a Vegan. So after my wife got me all calmed down and talked me of out of the trip I was planning to school my daughter came home and advised me that she was no longer eating meat. I was feeling pretty cocky and figured I was smarter than the average 2nd grader so I gave her the have at it...lol. about a week into it on our way to her dance class I pulled into Wegmans and got her a nice salad....then proceded to the drive through at McD's....big mac...chicken nuggets...and sat there and started eating as she stared at her salad. She asked me for a chicken nugget (now I am not even sure those are meat) and I told her I didn't think that was a good idea becasue that would go against what she had decided......well with about 2 or 3 left in the box she had a change of heart and swapped her salad with me for the rest of them. Told you guys I was smarter than a 2nd grader...lol.

I have some female frieds against hunting....they eat meat though. and just refuse to talk or think about where it comes from.

[upstaterifle]

I have always wanted to go hunting but there was never anyone in my family or friends who really wanted to. I am 29. Have a friend at work who has been going for years and now I'm in. Can't wait for things to start. I really look at hunting as a skill that should be know and I am looking forward to many years ahead.

[sits in trees]

could also be with the advent of the "soccer mom" who feels its necessary to keep their little darlings busy 24/7 running from soccer to softball, then karate to dance class, end every other freakin activity imaginable theres just no time for alot of todays kids to get out and hunt???

[Doc]

Here's another thought. It may just be my imagination, but it seems to me that "hunter dedication" (for lack of a better term), has taken some rather huge steps backward in recent years.

So what do I mean by that? .... Well judging from activity during the season (or lack of it), it seems to me that a lot of the fewer number of hunters that we still have are really "part time hunters". It seems that after opening day (and actually half way through opening day), the activity dies right down to near silence. In fact, I think a significant number of the people out there hunt only a half-day and then head off to the gin-mills never to be seen for the rest of the season. After opening day, there are just enough guys out to keep the deer aware that there is a deer season going on, but the numbers of cars in state parking lots begin to make them look deserted. I remember when these same parking areas would be filled and have cars parked down both the shoulders of the road. Not any more. I think that almost all of the hunters go out for a half day or maybe a couple of days for the whole season. With that kind of decrease in enthusiasm, how long do you think it will be before these guys are missing from the hunting ranks completely. In other words, I am suspecting that we may have a huge loss of hunters in the near future. It may not just be about those that don't buy a license anymore but perhaps about an even bigger number that don't use the licenses that they buy. What happens when all these part-timers decide to save the time and money and just simply quit completely.

This is all just guesswork on my part, and is based on some very un-scientific observations made over the years. But the change has been pretty obvious in recent years and it really is looking a bit troubling to me. What do you all think?

[Elmo]

I'm 28, and aside from the obvious other things that distract us from hunting, I gotta say the two biggest things that I have encountered that have hindered my hunting: the startup cost of all the gear (if you aren't getting hand me downs). I shot a 20 year old bow for 3 years before I saved up enough to get something decent. Now I gotta save for a new MZ. I have a master's and a decent job, but life ain't cheap. The other thing I have found that makes it difficult is finding guys that will take you under your wing and teach. I know nothing of waterfowl, want to learn, but not many people want to take a noob to their blind. That means I gotta DIY or higher a guide, which I've done both, again hitting into the pocket book. I'm not trying to complain, and I love the feeling of "doing it all on my own." i was just maybe trying to give some insight from my generation into why there are less of us in the fields.

Rev, I agree with you and would add that the new adult hunters is an entire market of potential hunters that just are not tapped into that is completely ignored. There's a group of people that don't even know that you can even hunt. There are some people who when I mention that I hunt immediately people are surprised that I don't have to fly out to Montana to hunt or that I can legally own a firearm. These things they didn't even know was possible. I was exposed to hunting when I went to college in Michigan. Ever since then, I wanted to give it a try but I didn't because of finance. Then when my brother came back from the service (his main base was in South Carolina and he was exposed to hunting there) and wanted to give it a try as well, he said the heck with it. But I'm considered daring amongst my peers. I'm the guy who is willing to try anything. I head into the woods like a headless chicken just feeling my way through this. I don't have the luxury of hunting with friends who I can tag along with and have them point out things I should or shouldn't be doing. Other than my time in Michigan, I don't know anyone who hunts. I wouldn't even know that it is an option. There are a lot of people who won't venture out there without someone to lead them. I have friends who won't even going hiking unless I go with them. The common response is "I'm not going out there! What if we get attacked by a bear? I hear there's mountain lions out there?"

Hunter Ed classes are great and I applaud all the educators who take their time and energy to conduct these course. I seriously do. But please keep in mind that those who are signing up for the course already has some interest. The class availability had to be actively be sort out and registered by someone meaning for them to even know the class exist and for them to be there means there was some prior interest. No one sits up late at night and some infomerical comes on and tells them "Sign up for Hunter's Ed now!" A bit of an exaggeration, I know but I hope you get my point. I think about how I got into hunting and I think about all the people who never left the cities and never had the exposure that I have and I think about how many of them would actually give hunting a try if they actually knew hunting is something they can easily do?

[upstaterifle]

my biggest gripe is not having somewhere that I can go and practice shooting more often. A family member has some land that when I have time I will practice. From what it sounds like, I do it more than most I talk to. Doesn't feel like it.

I wish there was some sort of shooting range that was public where you did not was to belong to a club to go to. There are a few in the area here but you need to know someone to get in pretty much.

Having someone to take you under their wing is really a big part and is what really got me into things this year. Finding time to do everything is tough with family things but when the kids are bigger it will be easier. I also agree that the initial investment can be pricey but these are tools really which as long as you take care of things you will have a long time.

[jusputtn]

Upstaterifle,

"I wish there was some sort of shooting range that was public where you did not was to belong to a club to go to. There are a few in the area here but you need to know someone to get in pretty much."

Clubs require members to sign for an applicant to try to ensure that the club demographic is made up of people that demonstrate safe gun handling skills, normal social skills, a willingness to pitch in with some of the work, etc. Just make some effort to contact a club your interested in, tell them your interested in joining and ask them how you might be able to stop by to see the club and meet some members.

[Doc]

What would really be nice is if all parcels of state land had a small area reserved that was cleared and back-stopped and made for target practice. Also a standing rule that target practice anywhere else on the parcel was forbidden. That would give everyone a safe place to shoot, and keep someone from randomly walking through the woods shooting up the trees and perhaps hunters, hikers, and others trying to use the land.