Deer Anatomy

[SteveB]

How sad, the know it all can't admit he is wrong. My comprehension is fine, it's yours that is lacking.

All in quotes:

The Bottom Line:

But on occasion I know you can drill a deer through no mans land because I have seen it happen. One time I shot a buck on camera for my tv show. We reviewed the footage in slo mo, high just below the spine. We looked for a day little blood no deer. Two days later we filmed the same buck nudging 80 yards away in a field. We filmed both sides of the deer's body for documentation. You can clearly see the arrow's entrance and exit holes through no mans land. And the buck was fine.

Which means either it hit above the spine or the deer was one of the lucky few that survived a high double lung hit.

The deer was not recovered so it is impossible to tell which it is.

That is the detail one can see with a little bit (not that much rally) of comprehension.

No where in that article does he state that a void exists above the lungs and below the spine - no where.

[pistolp71]

Wow. You have some issues. Go back on your meds. Responding to you is a complete waste of time. I can only hope it happens to you.

[SteveB]

No where in that article does he state that a void exists above the lungs and below the spine - no where.

You can't deny this.

Was it in the chest cavity in front of the diaphragm under the spine?

You also never answered this question.

So you claim I have issues for pointing out the truth stated in the article?

You are right - responding without facts is a waste of your time.

Edited October 11, 2012 by SteveB

[erussell]

Was it in the chest cavity in front of the diaphragm under the spine?

Was the shot from a treestand resulting in a downward angle?

Not sure if you are asking me this question or not but the shot was a 48 yrd shot out of a treestand. From what I could tell from the video it was in line with the chest cavity

[pistolp71]

Whatever. I wasted enough time. I really don't care what you believe.

[Five Seasons]

Never lost one there. Depending on angle, was always at least one lung.

Those where harder tracking except for a 1 lung/liver down in 75 yds.

2 years ago i had a bow shot from 35' in the air basket 8 point cornering towards me at about 20 yards. The arrow sliced a lung but came out the bottom of the stomach. I had 3 drops of blood and a green arrow. I was sick thinking i had gut shot the deer. After backing out for 3 hours and 2 hours of just wandering around the woods I lucky to find him. His intestines had plugged the exit hole.

Most shots are lethal... it's just that some are hard/impossible to track and others are easy.

Edited November 30, 2012 by Belo

[SteveB]

2 years ago i had a bow shot from 35' in the air basket 8 point cornering towards me at about 20 yards. The arrow sliced a lung but came out the bottom of the stomach. I had 3 drops of blood and a green arrow. I was sick thinking i had gut shot the deer. After backing out for 3 hours and 2 hours of just wandering around the woods I lucky to find him. His intestines had plugged the exit hole.

Most shots are lethal... it's just that some are hard/impossible to track and others are easy.

Great job on the track and recovery!

Not sure if you are asking me this question or not but the shot was a 48 yrd shot out of a treestand. From what I could tell from the video it was in line with the chest cavity

No - not in response to you. Thanks.

[dbHunterNY]

i've seen many deer hit in the backstrap area just above the intestines or lungs and survived it. the arteries and spinal cord weren't hit and all of them seemed to be low angles from the ground either stalking or from a blind. only "dead space" i know of. the chances of an arrow making it through there without hitting something else aren't very high at all but still exist. i've got the D&DH Shot Simulator on my phone too. I will say it's worth it. I don't use it much for my shots much. However, if you're shot is on film or your using it as a learning tool it works great! even tells you what to expect or do tracking wise.

[growalot]

Now I wish I hadn't clicked on this again...really could the shot on that doe have been any closer to the heart with out hitting any vitals I think my daughter was right...I think it hit the breast bone...... stuck and just tore up the muscle while she walked...then it worked free and simply fell out...aauugghhhh

[the blur]

When gutting a deer, do you split the rib cage to remove the diaphragm & heart?  or just reach in from underneath, and cut in a circular motion ?    I've seen it both ways on youtube.

[TeeBugg]

When gutting a deer, do you split the rib cage to remove the diaphragm & heart? or just reach in from underneath, and cut in a circular motion ? I've seen it both ways on youtube.

I reach in. Couple guys we hunt with split the cage.

[Bowguy]

Perfect! So, does anyone want to debate the mystical "no man's land" (DOES NOT EXIST!) ?

I can debate w ya. No mans land does certainly exist. Remember the dead deer had bloated organs., as it exhales also it's lungs deflate.

The shot needs to be on target.

I refer to no mans land as the space above the lungs. Many deer each year go unrecovered because of such hits.

Future seasons find deer with wounds to prove it

Edited July 5, 2015 by Bowguy

[SteveB]

It proofs that a deer survived a high lung hit - nothing else.

There is no empty space anywhere in the thoracic cavity where a broadhead can pass between the lungs and the spine. The lungs can only work by being in contact at all times with the cavity walls. It is the expansion/contraction of the ribcage that inflates/deflates the lungs with air.

[NFA-ADK]

My first shot on a small doe was high.  Found a few droplets of blood to about 45 yards that was it.  Scoured the area out to about half a mile, nothing.  The shot was not rushed and she did not jump I just underestimated her size and distance.  This shot was in the area of debate and she appeared to be ok. 

 

I am a believer in this area of little to no impact.  I wont call it a void but their does seem to be a spot in this area that shots can pass though with little effect on the animals health.

[wooly]

Absolutley "no-mans land" exists....... every deer I've ever lost has been hit there.

[The_Field_Ager]

Must hurt like hell though if a rib is busted. Best not to miss.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Papist

[NFA-ADK]

Bump, not to bring up the "No man zone" question but I thought the page was worth reposting.  Great post!!!

[growalot]

OK So I am thoroughly sick of this no mans land /zone debate...forget bows..arrows....here's one for you to consider..This is fact...because in a state of near hysteria, yes that's right I said it. I had to run down this deer to kill it....

I had a fawn that Momma would bring in and drop off under my stand every single day I hunted there...and it would wander around feed and sleep in eye shot the whole day until momma picked it up in the afternoon...fast forward to gun season...I get to stand and no momma...in a little bit I see movement and there is the fawn  not acting right..she slowly comes my way and to my utter horror she has a 3in rotting hole just under her spine in the middle of her back I could literally see through it...well I tried to get off a shot but she was in the brush...It wasn't a drop shot and off she went into the nasty stuff....I nearly went down the ladder fireman style to follow up...I put her down sobbing like a baby and mad as hell...the wound was nearly perfectly round and had not hit any vitals but they had shot her several days prior because the edges had hardened a bit, but also went rancid...she was dying a slow terrible death from infection...BTW when I first caught site of her she was attempting to feed on bramble.

So I have to say in conclusion...having seen a shot gun hole that big manage to hit a "no mans land" I think a regular broad head could do the same.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

22 minutes ago, growalot said:

OK So I am thoroughly sick of this no mans land /zone debate...forget bows..arrows....here's one for you to consider..This is fact...because in a state of near hysteria, yes that's right I said it. I had to run down this deer to kill it....

I had a fawn that Momma would bring in and drop off under my stand every single day I hunted there...and it would wander around feed and sleep in eye shot the whole day until momma picked it up in the afternoon...fast forward to gun season...I get to stand and no momma...in a little bit I see movement and there is the fawn  not acting right..she slowly comes my way and to my utter horror she has a 3in rotting hole just under her spine in the middle of her back I could literally see through it...well I tried to get off a shot but she was in the brush...It wasn't a drop shot and off she went into the nasty stuff....I nearly went down the ladder fireman style to follow up...I put her down sobbing like a baby and mad as hell...the wound was nearly perfectly round and had not hit any vitals but they had shot her several days prior because the edges had hardened a bit, but also went rancid...she was dying a slow terrible death from infection...BTW when I first caught site of her she was attempting to feed on bramble.

So I have to say in conclusion...having seen a shot gun hole that big manage to hit a "no mans land" I think a regular broad head could do the same.

All I can say is in this picture. Now granted this is a cross section right behind the front shoulders. Personally i believe what many view as no mans land there is above the spine. Below the spine, behind the diaphragm will make for a sleepless night too

[growalot]

I said under the spine because she was still able to run actually and was walking when I first saw her...I know the hole didn't breech the top line of her back line and I could see the edges of ribs blown away...I'll tell you for sure it was an awful site and I to this day do not know how she survived as long as she did..or from the initial hit. The shock alone so close to the spine should have killed her...she was a good sized fawn but not huge by any means....Oh boy ...wasn't fun around my house until well after season...I had gotten attached to her from afar...

[DaleP]

Here is the best lesson I have learned on deer anatomy in a long time.  A friend gave me this link a few weeks ago and I have probly watched this 7-8 times.  Set a side an hour and have a look. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6cLLHsMnL4

[The_Field_Ager]

So I just spent a little while on shot simulator recreating the angle on last Monday's Buck that ran a half mile after I bumped him. I even slightly exaggerated how high and far back the entry wound is, and yet it is telling me I double lunged the beast.  Baffling. 

[Chef]

So I just spent a little while on shot simulator recreating the angle on last Monday's Buck that ran a half mile after I bumped him. I even slightly exaggerated how high and far back the entry wound is, and yet it is telling me I double lunged the beast.  Baffling. 

I saw the pics of where you hit him... that's one tough son of a bitch


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[The_Field_Ager]

Old hunter friend said he has seen deer run for long distances with no functional lungs or heart after rifle shots. It happens

[BowmanMike]

Papist,that buck should have laid down long before he did. The one I shot last Sunday had two nice triangular holes in his lungs. I was maybe a tad over 20' up the tree and he was only about 15 yds away. The entrance hole was just under the spine,maybe 1 1/2 inches and exit hole lower third of ribcage. I hit a little further forward than you,but otherwise pretty darn similar shot and angle.

He only went 40 yds, I feel yours should not have gotten much further. Bizarre