NYS Crossbow hunting & season wrong from day one

[rob-c]

Man,  must be some pro level bow shooters in here . Pick up a brand new bow and in a hour their all in the 12 ring. You guys should be out making money at it if it’s that easy. 

Edited July 7, 2020 by rob-c

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I'll tell you guys what. I'll do a little experiment. You all may remember that last year was my first season hunting with a recurve. I let a buddy use my bow so it was adjusted to him. I will be getting that back in my hands since he picked up a new Matthews (I know, no accounting for taste).

I asked my daughters boy friend if he wanted to learn to bow hunt. Last year was his first year hunting and until he went through the Field to Fork program he barely had any firearms experience. SO I'll set it up for him and record the results of his shooting and the time involved. 

[chrisw]

Man,  must be some pro level bow shooters in here . Pick up a brand new bow and in a hour their all in the 12 ring. You guys should be out making money at it if it’s that easy. 

I was thinking the same! I guess all of the reps that Levi Morgan puts in every dayto stay on top is wasted then!? You guys are nutty sometimes. Let's simplify this. Crossbows are easier than any other form of bow, period. Compounds are harder to be proficient at than crossbows and require more skill to successfully hunt with than crossbows, (hence why everybody suddenly developed disabilities in the last few years and now can only crossbow hunt). Traditional archery is much more difficult than the aforementioned styles of archery for a multitude of reasons. Now that we have that cleared up, feel free to keep arguing....

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[Culvercreek hunt club]

23 minutes ago, chrisw said:

I was thinking the same! I guess all of the reps that Levi Morgan puts in every dayto stay on top is wasted then!? You guys are nutty sometimes. Let's simplify this. Crossbows are easier than any other form of bow, period. Compounds are harder to be proficient at than crossbows and require more skill to successfully hunt with than crossbows, (hence why everybody suddenly developed disabilities in the last few years and now can only crossbow hunt). Traditional archery is much more difficult than the aforementioned styles of archery for a multitude of reasons. Now that we have that cleared up, feel free to keep arguing....

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Chris. 

I didn't see anyone contradict what you said in that post. What has everyone steamed is the comment that with a modern compound you can have a person proficient enough to go out and kill a deer inside 30 yards within a couple hours of practice.  (I think 20 is much more realistic for a first timer even if they practiced a lot)

would that have been possible with bows like my old Bear whitetail? Sure wouldn't seem it to me but the bows of today are nothing like 30 years ago. 

[chrisw]

Chris. 
I didn't see anyone contradict what you said in that post. What has everyone steamed is the comment that with a modern compound you can have a person proficient enough to go out and kill a deer inside 30 yards within a couple hours of practice.  (I think 20 is much more realistic for a first timer even if they practiced a lot)
would that have been possible with bows like my old Bear whitetail? Sure wouldn't seem it to me but the bows of today are nothing like 30 years ago. 

While I think that is debatable in most instances that you onlyneed 2 hours of practice to go hunting and kill deer. I was referring moreso to the people saying that a compound is as easy as a crossbow. And once you get a compound sighted in they are simple to hit whatever you want. Just a lot of misinformation going on with a few posters.

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[Culvercreek hunt club]

Just now, chrisw said:

While I think that is debatable in most instances that you onlyneed 2 hours of practice to go hunting and kill deer. I was referring moreso to the people saying that a compound is as easy as a crossbow. And once you get a compound sighted in they are simple to hit whatever you want. Just a lot of misinformation going on with a few posters.

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I own both and can put my Hoyt out there to 50 yards and maintain a great grouping. The crossbow is without a doubt easier to use but I will say if I had to take a 50 yard off hand shot with it or my compound with a $100 on the table if I got a Bull. I'd pick up my compound. 

[chrisw]

I own both and can put my Hoyt out there to 50 yards and maintain a great grouping. The crossbow is without a doubt easier to use but I will say if I had to take a 50 yard off hand shot with it or my compound with a $100 on the table if I got a Bull. I'd pick up my compound. 

I bet most people utilize rests when they shoot crossbows too so pretending we are shooting them offhand all of the time may not be accurate. Also, most hunting rifles are 7-9lbs, we shoot them offhand but prefer to rest when possible. There's no option for that with a compound, therefore adding to the fact that the compound is significantly more challenging than a crossbow under almost any circumstance. I was merely stating that some people want to blur the lines between crossbow and compound to make them one in the same, it's simply not the case.

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[rob-c]

24 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I own both and can put my Hoyt out there to 50 yards and maintain a great grouping. The crossbow is without a doubt easier to use but I will say if I had to take a 50 yard off hand shot with it or my compound with a $100 on the table if I got a Bull. I'd pick up my compound. 

My question to you, what one do you practice the most with ? 

[Jeremy K]

1 hour ago, chrisw said:

I was thinking the same! I guess all of the reps that Levi Morgan puts in every dayto stay on top is wasted then!? You guys are nutty sometimes. Let's simplify this. Crossbows are easier than any other form of bow, period. Compounds are harder to be proficient at than crossbows and require more skill to successfully hunt with than crossbows, (hence why everybody suddenly developed disabilities in the last few years and now can only crossbow hunt). Traditional archery is much more difficult than the aforementioned styles of archery for a multitude of reasons. Now that we have that cleared up, feel free to keep arguing....

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Levi also said in a Instagram live session that he shot a deer with a crossbow and will never do it again because it was too easy.

[Daveboone]

When muzzleloaders first became popular with thier own season, it was cap and ball. Seasons changed and equipment changed over the years due to hunter demand. Shotgun season went from smooth bore to rifled shotguns to now rifles in many areas.

I no longer bow hunt...took a few with my compound, didnt like the high tech bowhunting approach and took up the recurve for awhile, and enjoyed it much more, but couldnt shoot to be good enough to hunt responsibly. Therefore I tend not to get into the xbow debate much. BUT...considering the primitive nature and intent of bowhunting, I do not think that xbows should be used during thier season. Unfortunatetly also, all...and I am saying ALL xbow hunters I know do not put the practice in with thier bows to shoot proficiently and are very prone to shooting irresponsibly due to the "rifle like accuracy and trajectory" of the xbow. They suck with them. of course there are plenty of responsible shooters out there, but it seems many of them use it strictly as a crutch, and a poor one at that.

[Jeremy K]

Hopefully belo will chime back in and give us his take on the topic he started.

[chrisw]

Levi also said in a Instagram live session that he shot a deer with a crossbow and will never do it again because it was too easy.

Exactly. There is a reason they are so popular, people want the easiest option. The same reason most people don't hunt, it's easier to buy meat at the store. People need to try to defend their position when they have a crossbow to make people think it's still difficult. If you want to use a crossbow and it's legal then go right ahead, I'm not anti crossbow. I also don't want someone to try to convince me it's somehow still as challenging or more than a compound. BS.

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[Culvercreek hunt club]

My question to you, what one do you practice the most with ? 

Compound and the recurve even more now that I am using that.

[rob-c]

6 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Compound and the recurve even more now that I am using that.

Hence why you are more accurate at longer ranges. Put that time in with the x bow off hand and I bet it would be even easier. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Hence why you are more accurate at longer ranges. Put that time in with the x bow off hand and I bet it would be even easier. 

I knew that is where you were going but I am a pretty good shooter all the way around (don’t listen to Moog’s stories about me missing coyotes. Lol). It isn’t because of the practice I don’t think. The darn thing is so front heavy and just awkward. It’s certainly worse to hold on target than a firearm. With a rest it isn’t even close. My crossbow will out perform my compound consistently.

[rob-c]

51 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I knew that is where you were going but I am a pretty good shooter all the way around (don’t listen to Moog’s stories about me missing coyotes. Lol). It isn’t because of the practice I don’t think. The darn thing is so front heavy and just awkward. It’s certainly worse to hold on target than a firearm. With a rest it isn’t even close. My crossbow will out perform my compound consistently.

I have never shot a X bow , but have held one and the awkwardness turned me right off. But I can say I have nothing  against them . So  what you just typed and what I have heard from fellow coworkers Is it’s so awkward that it’s just easier to use a rest. And I speculate most do , so they are a easier weapon to kill a deer with.
 

Several coworkers have said when they went from vertical to a X bow it got way easier to harvest a deer. I’m not picking on you, I’m just using your honest opinion to help me prove to some on this  sight that a  X bow is easier to harvest a deer with over a compound and a compound is easier than a stick bow . And I’m sorry but unless one just has raw natural talent a person is not going to be shooting all their arrows in the 12 ring after a hour of shooting a vertical bow  . Again if it’s legal and one wants to use it have at it, hell I get grief from  co worker rifle hunters cause I use my handgun . 
 

Edited July 7, 2020 by rob-c

[Nomad]

15 hours ago, Jeremy K said:

Everyone's idea of proficient is different , we shoot at half dollars out to 50 yards , proficient to me is being able to make that shot 8 out of 10 times . Small paper plates at 50 yards wouldn't even be fun. 

Yikes ! I’m happy with a four inch group at 20 yards as I kill them at 12-15 . Rarely practice at 30, never beyond , seems like a lot of unnecessary walking .....

[fasteddie]

Sighted in my X-Bow at 30 yards using a rest . Took it hunting last year . Never got a shot . Maybe the deer smelled the Formaldehyde in my system . I can hit the 3" bull at 10 yards shooting off hand . I have a stand where this would be possible if the deer would only cooperate . 

[mike103]

“Unfortunatetly also, all...and I am saying ALL xbow hunters I know do not put the practice in with thier bows to shoot proficiently and are very prone to shooting irresponsibly due to the "rifle like accuracy and trajectory" of the xbow. They suck with them. of course there are plenty of responsible shooters out there, but it seems many of them use it strictly as a crutch, and a poor one at that.”
 

Well I have the exact opposite experience. My camp went to Xbows when they were allowed and love shooting them and staying proficient. 
 

First one was a little six at 50 yards in 2016 and the second was a ten last year at 20 yards. I practice hard and hunt hard for those two deer.

[The_Real_TCIII]

I'll tell you guys what. I'll do a little experiment. You all may remember that last year was my first season hunting with a recurve. I let a buddy use my bow so it was adjusted to him. I will be getting that back in my hands since he picked up a new Matthews (I know, no accounting for taste).
I asked my daughters boy friend if he wanted to learn to bow hunt. Last year was his first year hunting and until he went through the Field to Fork program he barely had any firearms experience. SO I'll set it up for him and record the results of his shooting and the time involved. 

I have no doubt he will be “pie plate” ready quickly, I get that. But bow hunting rarely gives you that easy broadside clear chipshot. You’ve hunted a lot more than I have so you know what I mean. Last year I got an arrow through a small hole in a tangle of brambles at 23 yards from a stand, I’m not Levy Morgan but a person with a few hours on a bow doesn’t make that shot IMO


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[BizCT]

Everyone's idea of proficient is different , we shoot at half dollars out to 50 yards , proficient to me is being able to make that shot 8 out of 10 times . Small paper plates at 50 yards wouldn't even be fun. 

I get it. I just meant to kill a deer at 25 yards with an ethical shot doesn’t take much learning with today’s equipment. I assume it was a lot tougher back in the day with lesser technology


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[BizCT]

Levi also said in a Instagram live session that he shot a deer with a crossbow and will never do it again because it was too easy.

I assume he doesn’t gun hunt then? Any shotgun or rifle is way way easier than a crossbow.


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[Nomad]

4 hours ago, chrisw said:

, (hence why everybody suddenly developed disabilities in the last few years and now can only crossbow hunt)

In what state is this ? NYS doesn’t let “ disabled “ hunt with xbows ,season wide .

Modified Crossbow Permit

The Modified Crossbow Permit allows qualified individuals to hunt big or small game with a crossbow that has been specifically modified with a device that allows it to be discharged (fired) with use of a breath tube. This permit does not allow the use of an unmodified crossbow.

To qualify: you must be permanently physically unable to hold or draw a legal bow or to fire a legal bow that has been modified to hold and release the string. If you can pull the trigger on a gun, you will not qualify.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Nomad

[chrisw]

In what state is this ? NYS doesn’t let “ disabled “ hunt with xbows ,season wide .

Modified Crossbow Permit

The Modified Crossbow Permit allows qualified individuals to hunt big or small game with a crossbow that has been specifically modified with a device that allows it to be discharged (fired) with use of a breath tube. This permit does not allow the use of an unmodified crossbow.

To qualify: you must be permanently physically unable to hold or draw a legal bow or to fire a legal bow that has been modified to hold and release the string. If you can pull the trigger on a gun, you will not qualify.

I'm not talking legal disabilities. I'm talking the guys who come up with physical excuses as to why they can't compound hunt anymore, the same guys who compound hunted right up until crossbow were interjected into bow season and suddenly they "just can't seem to draw their bows back anymore, so I just use a crossbow." Or, "I don't have time to practice with my compound so I just use the crossbow now." In a lot of instances it's just a cop out to use something easier. I'd rather just hear them say, "I wanted to make it easier to kill deer during archery." There's no need to sugar coat it, that's exactly what it is in most cases.

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[Nomad]

Oh, well I’m one of those guys . After 30 years I couldn’t draw my bow anymore . Bought an xbow , didn’t kill a deer the first year , last year I bought an Elite compound  off JeremyK that I can draw, used that last year ,then a bit into xbow season grabbed my Xbow  as I figured I haven’t killed one with it yet  . Killed a ten point at 20 yards , five yards short of my all,time longest bow kill .

IDk any shot 20 and under is easy, with either imho . First year ‘88 a single brass pin, flipper rest, shooting fingers , killed a buck at 8 yards , next year ,spike at 10 yards ( I kept records back then ) and on and on .

The challenge is not the shot, it’s having the chance at a close shot .

Edited July 7, 2020 by Nomad