Conundrum, What to do what to do.

[erussell]

So i go out tonight to a 60 acre tract of land My cousin owns. Its a good doe spot and usually results in a filled tag. Well over the yrs my success at this spot has spread and other hunters have trickled in pretty much resulting in the extermination of most of the deer in the area. Well I stopped hunting it when the orange hoard took it over. Seems to be a problem with my family they just dont know how to say no to other hunters and as a result most of my familys land is devoid of deer once hunting season starts. Well all that is besides the point. I have been harrasing the deer pretty hard at another spot so I decided to give them a few days break so I headed back to my cousins land. Well I head to a good spot that had produced in the past and started snooping around checking things out seing if I could find some tracks or anything. Well I start finding tracks and rubs and huge scrapes and droppings all over the place. I'm thinking fantastic maybe this place has come back. So I sit for a while and its just to warm, I dont think the deer are going to move till it gets dark so I decide to do a little armed recon of the rest of the property. I havent gone more than 40 yrds from where I have been sitting when I run into a treestand up in this pine tree. Well I look down and there is a pile of bait by my feet. Looks like pears and some sort of feed block made out of corn. Well now im pissed because Ive basically been hunting over bait for the last 2 hours. So I releived myself on the bait pile and stood there and carved BAITING IS ILLEGAL DIPS--T on the tree next to it all the while spitting skoal all over the bait. So then I head to the other side of the property as far away from the bait as I could get and lo and behold there is another pile there to so I do the same thing as before and leave pissed of. My question is what to do. Im afraid if I make a stink he might just stop letting everyone hunt there and lose a pc of property. I had my cell out ready to call the DEC but have to think this over a bit. Should I call my cousin and let him know whats going on? I was thinking of just going up with a box of mothballs an pouring it on the pile and around the guys stand and hope he gets the picture. What to do what to do.

[Doc]

Call the DEC with the details and let them take care of the baiting situation.E-mail them some pictures so they know you have a rel problem going on there.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Doc, I reported to different baitingc ases to the DEC and to date NOTHING has been done. I am not sure if it is the budget cuts or what but there seems to be a lack of interest. Even the post that had the list of poaching and such seem to indicate the baiting only comes in conjunstion with a stronger or first offense. I don't remember seeing one ticket for baiting on it's own.

Edited December 6, 2011 by Culvercreek hunt club

[Doewhacker]

You need to call your cousin before you can call in the DEC anyways so I would let him know first.

[grampsretired3]

Buy some fabric softner and pour it around the stands.

[fasteddie]

You need to call your cousin before you can call in the DEC anyways so I would let him know first.

And ........ what if the cousin is doing the baiting ?

Fabric softener might do the trick or go to one of the nursery places and buy a bottle of coyote pee or the stuff to keep deer away .

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Short staff and no help. Dec probably wont respond!!! Do the moth balls trick and dont say a word to the land owner YET!!! See if your plan works to run his a$$ out of there. A trick i used before is to get some business cards from your local game warden or dec and tack it to the tree with a little note on the back. Worked for me on a guy trapping and not checking and removeing live animals for day's and untagged traps!!!!

[phade]

_{You are family - so I hope you would have the first "in." so to speak.}

_{Call the family member up (if it is not him baiting). Ask to meet you out for a beer and some wings at the local joint (not a rowdy bar...but a place you can at least chat without yelling). Sit him down, explain the situation, and let him know that someone is taking advantage of him by getting permission and then breaking the law on his ground.}

_{Tell him that you've hunted the ground ethically for years and hate to see something like this happen to him. Offer to post the ground if it is not, and become the "land manager" for hunting purposes...meaning you dole out permission (with coordination with your cousin). Also ask that the baiting hunter be kicked off the ground because you fear being ticketed for hunting over bait when you have nothing to do with it.}

_{He may accept none, some, or all of your suggestions. At least you'll have reached a resolution as to your hunting situation.}

_{The baiting hunter should be cited...but I'd at least talk to your cousin first.}

[Doewhacker]

Doc, I reported to different baitingc ases to the DEC and to date NOTHING has been done. I am not sure if it is the budget cuts or what but there seems to be a lack of interest. Even the post that had the list of poaching and such seem to indicate the baiting only comes in conjunstion with a stronger or first offense. I don't remember seeing one ticket for baiting on it's own.

Some times the DEC is picky in what they go after, they can't just go barging on to some dudes land because some one reports baiting and they seem to like to tie it in with more than one charge. The guys we had busted for baiting still do it year after year, figgin dummies dont get it. That particular officer was great and came back several times over the years when we contacted him.

[88GW]

Some times the DEC is picky in what they go after, they can't just go barging on to some dudes land because some one reports baiting and they seem to like to tie it in with more than one charge. The guys we had busted for baiting still do it year after year, figgin dummies dont get it. That particular officer was great and came back several times over the years when we contacted him.

I thought if you made a report to the DEC they could go and investigate the property. For that matter I have been told the DEC does not need permission to go on your land. They can basically snoop around the land to determine if everything going on is legal. Correct me if I am wrong.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I think phade has the right idea.

[Doewhacker]

I thought if you made a report to the DEC they could go and investigate the property. For that matter I have been told the DEC does not need permission to go on your land. They can basically snoop around the land to determine if everything going on is legal. Correct me if I am wrong.

I think you are wrong but dont care to look up the actual facts..lol

I think the officer told us something to the effect of, they have to have permission to go onto the land or be able to see the bait from an adjoining property line. I don't think they can just go wandering through some land because just think of how many people would be crying wolf to hassle their neighbors. In our case we dont own the land so DEC stopped and got permision from the landowner to enter his property to investigate.

[Doc]

I think you are wrong but dont care to look up the actual facts..lol

I think the officer told us something to the effect of, they have to have permission to go onto the land or be able to see the bait from an adjoining property line. I don't think they can just go wandering through some land because just think of how many people would be crying wolf to hassle their neighbors. In our case we dont own the land so DEC stopped and got permision from the landowner to enter his property to investigate.

I don't believe that any law enforcement officer (including DEC law enforcement) has to abide by trespass laws while investigating anything they want to investigate. They can and are expected to investigate any and all complaints. That's what the 1-800-TIPP-DEC phone line that they have been pushing every year for decades is all about. As they put it on page 63 of the game syllabus that phone number is to be used to "report poaching, trespassing, baiting or other wildlife violations". Note that they have specifically listed baiting. I'm not sure, but I believe that system utilizes anonymous reporting.

[Doewhacker]

Doc come on, thats why there are search warrants and probable cause, they can't just do what they want in the name of investigating.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

NOt sure of the statutes and exact laws but I have 3 family member that are or were in law enforcement. They spoke several times of taking ECO's with them on various outings because their ability/freedom of entry and search was less encumbered than that the police or troopers.

Edited December 6, 2011 by Culvercreek hunt club

[Doc]

Doc come on, thats why there are search warrants and probable cause, they can't just do what they want in the name of investigating.

I understand what you are saying, but I think there is probably a huge difference between breaking in the doors on a residence vs. walking onto private woodlots to invetigate a reported violation. At any rate, I think that neither of us is in law enforcement of any part of judicial law, so actually neither of us knows one way or the other for sure. Maybe some member here is in law enforcement and can shed some light on all that.

[Doewhacker]

I understand what you are saying, but I think there is probably a huge difference between breaking in the doors on a residence vs. walking onto private woodlots to invetigate a reported violation. At any rate, I think that neither of us is in law enforcement of any part of judicial law, so actually neither of us knows one way or the other for sure. Maybe some member here is in law enforcement and can shed some light on all that.

That I agree with and know is true! haha As I already said, I don't want to research it out of shear lazyness.

[mossy725]

Wait, wait, wait - you carved "Baiting is illegal dip shit" into a tree? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[nyantler]

Doc come on, thats why there are search warrants and probable cause, they can't just do what they want in the name of investigating.

I'm thinking a baiting report might be probable cause... as a courtesy I'm sure they would contact the homeowner first before searching his property if time permitted.

[Doewhacker]

I'm thinking a baiting report might be probable cause... as a courtesy I'm sure they would contact the homeowner first before searching his property if time permitted.

I agree but how well could they establish it from basic hear say? Some folks on here have some made up stories, I can imagine trying to figure out the BS from reality. Sounds like a fun job I want no part of. lol

[coyoteman]

They do have the right to go onto anyone's property to investigate complaints. A couple of years back neighbor was baiting and they walked in and caught him in the tree hunting. The ECO gave him a ticket for baiting and not reporting a earlier kill.

[Caveman]

Doc, it was decided in a case called Oliver v. US. The general rule is that the police do not need a warrant for private property made up of woods or fields because it is not subject to the same expectation of privacy as say a residence or office. I asked a man at college who is legal counsel for the NYSP how it applied to searches of hunting land and he confirmed that a warrant to search and surveil your private woods would not be subject to the warrant requirement. For anyone interested in a brief of the case

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=466&invol=170

The way it is looked at in a constitutional sense is that your expectation of privacy diminishes with increased distance from your residence on that property.

Again, this is straight from the guy who tells troopers what they can and can't do with respect to searches and got his J.D. at Notre Dame. If someone disagrees, take it up with him, I'm just the messenger lol

[waterweasle]

I'm thinking a baiting report might be probable cause... as a courtesy I'm sure they would contact the homeowner first before searching his property if time permitted.

call as a courtesy?? so then the homeowner who was doing the baiting could/would go clean up the bait before it was searched.......right?

[MountainHunter]

I would think you would talk to your cousin first. It is land and he is deserving of that courtesy.

[catskillkid]

I know of a case where guys were baiting deer on a parcel of land. Adjoining neighbors who had trespassed prior to the rifle season saw the bait piles. They reported it to the local CO. On opening morning of the regular season, the CO and police showed up with 2 Chevy Suburbans and arrested all hunters. They got a free ride to the local Magistrate. The landowner was also isssued summons for having assumed knowledge of the illegal baiting activity.

My recommendation would be to tell your cousin and have the bait cleaned up, he may get a summons if you go to the CO first even if he is not aware of the baiting. Assuming he gave permission to that person to hunt his land.

Edited December 7, 2011 by catskillkid