New AR areas in 2012

[the blur]

I hunt state land in zone 3, and many guys I talk to say they are trophy hunting because of the AR, and they love it. They are seeing bigger racks every year.

[Red]

here is a question a little off topic and its only because ive seen some one write this in just about every topic. citiot?

Edited December 14, 2011 by shawn

[KEVA]

citiot=city idiot

At least that is how I interpreted it. You know, the city folk who come out one weekend and rampage through the woods, and don't have much of a clue as to what they are doing or much respect for the locals. Not that I look down on city people, I don't even use the term though I find it humorous.

We do need to be conscious of what the general public thinks of us, and the best way to do that is to be well educated on hunting and deer management practices. The general public should not be able to compete with our knowledge of deer hunting practices. As the article SteveNY posted mentioned, ARs are not all about raising trophy deer. It supports a healthy deer herd. Many hunters may only support it to increase their chances of getting a trophy, but ARs do much more than increase the number of trophy deer.

Personally, I have a hard time taking anti AR arguments seriously when they discuss how it will be fuel for the antis. ARs back up hunters role in managing healthy deer populations and therefore support hunting activities. Why are hunters stepping back from better fulfilling their beneficial role simply because they are afraid of antis? You want to knock ARs, go ahead. Just don't take the BS argument that we will get our butt kicked by antis because of it. I won't let antis stop me from hunting responsibly.

Thanks for the articles SteveNY

Edited December 14, 2011 by KEVA

[Red]

i figured thats what it meant i just wanted to make sure. i agree there are some guys that head out to the country and have no clue as to what they are doing but there are also the fair share of hil billys who dont have a clue as to what they are doing. im from the city and i hunt a farm thats connected to state land and theres a hill billy that hunts the same farm and he does so much stuff to screw up the hunting on the farm from scouting in the woods the night befor opening day of bow season even though he already has his 30 tree stands already all set in place and he like to crash around threw every bedding area on the farm a few times each week trying to get a deer with the bow but those are just a few examples. im just saying there city guys who are amazing hunters and some that really suck and some country guys who are great hunters and some that really suck. SORRY FOR GOING OFF TOPIC GUYS.

[NFA-ADK]

I am fully aware that we are a dying breed. Please explain to me how AR's will have a positive impact on recruiting new hunters. Yet another restriction for them to deal with, not to mention teaching them to have the wrong priorities. Many new hunters (young and old) get discouraged with lack of success and give up easily, why put another barrier in the way of their success? When ANY hunter quits, it decreases the probability of those under their influence taking up our sport. So the few hunters who quit don't matter to you? What about their children? Their grandchildren? Their friends? It adds up. I think maybe you like having the woods all to yourself. I trust the DEC as far as I can throw them. Blah blah blah, It all adds up to $$$$ for them.

I did not say anything about AR causing better recruitment but since we are on that part of the subject. I understand what you are saying about more restrictions but I dont believe that will stop any new hunter from trying but it might deter them and old hunters.

Priorities: The fact that young hunters can not shoot a deer teaches restraint and knowledge of your prey wich inturn enhances your experience and teaches essential lessons for taking a more mature deer. True hunters never stop, even when discouraged...

Don't you think young guys (or gal's)would be more interested in taking a huge stud buck like the one's you have taken and shown them pictures of? (In the new AR zone) Or would they rather shoot a doe or spike like some get every year now? You want the pinto or the corvette? You know his/her answer...

Hunting a mature deer which they would now have a better chance at I believe would be more enticing than just any deer. And seeing a great buck is usually enough to keep a new hunter interested or old for that matter... I feel having a more mature heard would benifit all not just me. As a matter of fact I would be the last person to "Benifit" because I hunt mainly up North and yes I love when I have the woods to myself but even up north it's rarely true and AR would not affect my area at all...

In so far as AR helping get new hunters, I don't think it was designed for that... In my opinion it's for the herd not the people. Simply put a more mature herd will survive better in any conditions. So for me AR has nothing to do with recruitment or loosing hunters its about a better deer herd in general wich allso equates to better hunting in my opinion due to larger, smarter and a more healthy prey. But again I love hunting mature deer... It will not help with recruitment or the old timers and yes I do care about people leaving the "sport" but the way I figure it they would have gone anyway, AR just cause them to do it quicker... Too bad they can not see the benifits of an older balanced herd. The DEC does and many hunters in AR zones are happy with the results... And you are right it all adds up to $$$ for them...

[Skillet]

ADK, this is a tired issue & a tired thread. I am a "true" hunter, I'm sure you are as well. I respect your opinion, but respectfully disagree as well. In the end, we are all hunters. As a group, we will survive or perish based on how we treat each other. Let's put this to bed.

[Lever action]

Quote-Don't you think young guys (or gal's)would be more interested in taking a huge stud buck like the one's you have taken and shown them pictures of? (In the new AR zone) Or would they rather shoot a doe or spike like some get every year now? You want the pinto or the corvette? You know his/her answer...

No I don't.I have a 10yr old daughter and she loves to fish but only if she's catching fish and it doesn't have to be a big fish just as long as she's catching fish otherwise she will lose interest in a hurry.I believe the same to be true if she were hunting or most young hunters for that matter, they would be happy just to shoot a deer regardless of size.

My thoughts on AR's.I hope they don't implement them in my area.I hunt deer because I enjoy all the work and preporation that is involved in the taking of a deer be it with a bow or gun and I like eat them.As much as I love to hunt them if I didn't eat them I wouldn't hunt them.Sure I like to shoot a big buck but not to the point where I don't care if other hunters leave the sport and others don't join the sport of hunting because of my obsession with big antlers.

[WhitetailCrazed11]

I wish 5r and 5j made the list!

[erussell]

Still rolling the dice trying to get a 7s. I hunt land that boarders PA and can only say good things about AR. I use to just go to this property to shoot doe because the bucks were so punnie. But in the last 8 yrs or so there size and number has increased. My wifes cousins all taged out 1st day in PA with seven almost identical 8 points. They all passed on 2 or 3 bucks apiece before they shot there 8's. They all say the same thing they couldnt be happier. It was tough the 1st couple of yrs but has only gotten better.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Cabinboy really how much work and preperation does it take to go out and shoot a doe or a yearling buck!!!! Walk in any woods that have deer tracks and food...Boom..work done... I know on some parks that have ar in place now,they also have a rule in effect that says young hunters under the age of 17 can shoot any buck they see... I believe all of ny state could put that law into effect and then the fight about the kids and new hunters not being able to shoot would not fly!!

[wooly]

Cabinboy really how much work and preperation does it take to go out and shoot a doe or a yearling buck!!!! Walk in any woods that have deer tracks and food...Boom..work done...

Lol- why didn't I think of that.So simple.

C'mon man, even these young dumb bucks are smarter than us on our best day. Just assuming you spend every day of season on stand you accumulate 90 days in the field at lets say 8hrs a day for a total of 720hrs a year. Now lets face it that's probably a pretty inflated # for most hunters.

Then we take these young dumb bucks at 1year old. Have lived in these same woods you hunt every day of their lives, 24 hrs a day.

365days x 24hrs/day = 8760hrs per year lol

8670hrs of hot,cold, snow, rain, sleet , ice, decreased food supplies, no medical attention, motor vehicles, hunters, poachers, other predators, terrain that would make a billy got sweat, parasites, biting bugs, contagious diseases...not to mention they are born babies in these conditions.. in reality thrown to the wolves from the womb!

Damn bro, I give ya 1 week of living in that hell hole before you either get smart or get dead!

[Lever action]

Quote-Cabinboy really how much work and preperation does it take to go out and shoot a doe or a yearling buck!!!! Walk in any woods that have deer tracks and food...Boom..work done...

Well 4 Seasons you must be a far better hunter than me and most everybody else I know because I never found hunting deer to be that easy.

[DEADDEER1]

I hunt state land in zone 3, and many guys I talk to say they are trophy hunting because of the AR, and they love it. They are seeing bigger racks every year.

So you mean to tell me that if you let a young buck live a few yrs 2.5 / 3 or so that they will be be trophy class/decent bucks????????

go figure id never guessed that to be true..lol LET THE YOUNG BUCKS GO MEAT HUNTER OR NOT 90/100 INCHES SHOULD BE MINIMUM FOR ANY HUNTER TO WANT AND KILL ABUCK!!!!!!

Hunters harvest nice bucks for the wall and(freezer) killers kill deer scrub/young bucks to kill deer..

If youve been in the game for more then 2 yrs you should be looking and shooting decent bucks not spikes 4 pts (pathetic deer) let em live and grow.. just my opinion ARS will and do work but so does trigger management..

[SteveNY]

Thanks for the articles SteveNY

No problem KEVA.

I did not say anything about AR causing better recruitment but since we are on that part of the subject. I understand what you are saying about more restrictions but I dont believe that will stop any new hunter from trying but it might deter them and old hunters.

Priorities: The fact that young hunters can not shoot a deer teaches restraint and knowledge of your prey wich inturn enhances your experience and teaches essential lessons for taking a more mature deer. True hunters never stop, even when discouraged...

Don't you think young guys (or gal's)would be more interested in taking a huge stud buck like the one's you have taken and shown them pictures of? (In the new AR zone) Or would they rather shoot a doe or spike like some get every year now? You want the pinto or the corvette? You know his/her answer...

Hunting a mature deer which they would now have a better chance at I believe would be more enticing than just any deer. And seeing a great buck is usually enough to keep a new hunter interested or old for that matter... I feel having a more mature heard would benifit all not just me. As a matter of fact I would be the last person to "Benifit" because I hunt mainly up North and yes I love when I have the woods to myself but even up north it's rarely true and AR would not affect my area at all...

In so far as AR helping get new hunters, I don't think it was designed for that... In my opinion it's for the herd not the people. Simply put a more mature herd will survive better in any conditions. So for me AR has nothing to do with recruitment or loosing hunters its about a better deer herd in general wich allso equates to better hunting in my opinion due to larger, smarter and a more healthy prey. But again I love hunting mature deer... It will not help with recruitment or the old timers and yes I do care about people leaving the "sport" but the way I figure it they would have gone anyway, AR just cause them to do it quicker... Too bad they can not see the benifits of an older balanced herd. The DEC does and many hunters in AR zones are happy with the results... And you are right it all adds up to $$$ for them...

Quote-Don't you think young guys (or gal's)would be more interested in taking a huge stud buck like the one's you have taken and shown them pictures of? (In the new AR zone) Or would they rather shoot a doe or spike like some get every year now? You want the pinto or the corvette? You know his/her answer...

No I don't.I have a 10yr old daughter and she loves to fish but only if she's catching fish and it doesn't have to be a big fish just as long as she's catching fish otherwise she will lose interest in a hurry.I believe the same to be true if she were hunting or most young hunters for that matter, they would be happy just to shoot a deer regardless of size.

My thoughts on AR's.I hope they don't implement them in my area.I hunt deer because I enjoy all the work and preporation that is involved in the taking of a deer be it with a bow or gun and I like eat them.As much as I love to hunt them if I didn't eat them I wouldn't hunt them.Sure I like to shoot a big buck but not to the point where I don't care if other hunters leave the sport and others don't join the sport of hunting because of my obsession with big antlers.

Just want to inform you guys that hunters 17 and under are exempt from AR laws.

[wooly]

So you mean to tell me that if you let a young buck live a few yrs 2.5 / 3 or so that they will be be trophy class/decent bucks????????

go figure id never guessed that to be true..lol LET THE YOUNG BUCKS GO MEAT HUNTER OR NOT 90/100 INCHES SHOULD BE MINIMUM FOR ANY HUNTER TO WANT AND KILL ABUCK!!!!!!

Hunters harvest nice bucks for the wall and(freezer) killers kill deer scrub/young bucks to kill deer..

If youve been in the game for more then 2 yrs you should be looking and shooting decent bucks not spikes 4 pts (pathetic deer) let em live and grow.. just my opinion ARS will and do work but so does trigger management..

Good grief- do you even bother using tree steps to get outta your stand or do you just jump down and land on your head..unbelievable,LMAO

Is this really what you guys are all fired up about is 90 and 100" deer?

[KEVA]

Stop generalizing. One AR supporter mentioned 90 to 100" deer. That is not what I am after, and I am sure many other AR supporters are also not after that. I like the concept of AR because it provides a healthier deer herd and more entertaining hunts. Throw in that ARs will make poachers easier to catch. I love that part of ARs though it may not be a good reason to enact ARs. The improved opportunity to get a trophy is a plus also, but trophies should not dictate our policies either. If larger bucks in NY produce more revenue for our struggling DEC department, then why not consider that a plus too. I am unsure what DEC employees are making, but I doubt it is a significant amount as most conservation officers nationwide don't make much. More revenue for them will improve their ability to conserve our hunting grounds. How often do we hear how budget cuts for the department our going to negatively impact NY sportsman?

Antler restrictions will hardly affect our opportunities to take bucks. There will be fewer legal bucks, but not a whole lot fewer.

I do agree that young hunters should be exempt. However, as SteveNY mentioned, young hunters ARE exempt. Imagine that...

[First-light]

Ar's provide more entertaining hunts, produce more revenue for the DEC and poachers will be easier to catch. I don't agree with that. What's more entertaining then being able to harvest any size deer you wish. I know a bunch of guys who wouldn't bother to hunt if ar's were put in place. Loss of hunters and revenue right there. As for the poaching thing well if the deer is under the antler size sure but most poached deer are not hung out for display. Just my opinion.

[erussell]

Lol- why didn't I think of that.So simple.

C'mon man, even these young dumb bucks are smarter than us on our best day. Just assuming you spend every day of season on stand you accumulate 90 days in the field at lets say 8hrs a day for a total of 720hrs a year. Now lets face it that's probably a pretty inflated # for most hunters.

Then we take these young dumb bucks at 1year old. Have lived in these same woods you hunt every day of their lives, 24 hrs a day.

365days x 24hrs/day = 8760hrs per year lol

8670hrs of hot,cold, snow, rain, sleet , ice, decreased food supplies, no medical attention, motor vehicles, hunters, poachers, other predators, terrain that would make a billy got sweat, parasites, biting bugs, contagious diseases...not to mention they are born babies in these conditions.. in reality thrown to the wolves from the womb!

Damn bro, I give ya 1 week of living in that hell hole before you either get smart or get dead!

I see you hunt or are from Erie county Wooly, I cannot speak for your county because I have never hunted there. Maybe your deer are a little smarter. But I think you give deer a little to much credit.They have hightened survival skills, yes. But deer are still creatures of habit. They find something they want to eat, they will get to it somehow. Anyone with a game camera and some time to kill can harvest just about any deer they want to, provided you have access to them, which can be the hardest part of the hunt. Knowing your property and how Deer relate to the terrain yr to yr is a huge part of the equation. The rest is just numbers and luck. Deer are not smart in the literal sense of the word, they may seem crafty because they know where no one go's and they remember where that is and head to it as soon as the pressure starts.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Yes,It must be true. If you have spent any amount of time in the woods,Studied your game and have any kind of deer at all in your area,you should be able to find the little bucks and does. I am sure all places are not the same in populations of deer but mabey there lies the problem.Less harvest, less tags ar implemented,land improvements,one buck a year,shorter seasons and a little work on the hunters end and then mabey you will have deer.I really doubt any HUNTER will give up the sport because they have limits on buck size,They still take does if there is doe tags and if not im sure they would not put ar in that mgmt area. The young hunters still get to hunt any deer they choose so that fight is out the door. Its no doubt it wont work in all area's and for the most parts you dont have hunters going to areas that have low deer numbers,cept mabey the adk hunters and that wont change because its in their blood and they are true HUNTERS,not just harvesters. Some say it wont work and some say it will but i know the area i hunt that has it in place is working. Proof is in the sightings and harvest pics. The state is going slow to expand the ar areas and i think they will keep going a few at a time untill it is most places. Slow and steady as to not pi$$ off everyone at the same time....I belive its coming!!

[orion]

I don't think its a Pinto / Corvette comparison. That would be great but that's where AR proponents go wrong. What about the WALKING! That's what a lot of people would be doing. Would you rather have the pinto or walk! That corvette isn't coming along as often as you think. and if it does What's the challenge in that?

[SteveB]

Not going to read the same stuff again for the umpteenth time.

Just hope this ends in the SE region and doesn't spread to CNY and west.

Here nearly 60% of the 1.5's are 6pt or better - close to 80% of the 2.5's - both classes are young immature deer.

Targeting them with mandatory AR's will have little impact on anyone's ability to see more truly mature 4.5+ bucks.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Steve how would it not help?? If all the spikes and 4 pointers alone make it untill the next year you have that many more 6 and 8's running around the next year.Yes some will be taken but not all and those will make 2.5 years old. There's no way your going to get them all and in 2 or 3 years you will have many 3.5 years olds and up runnin around.

[KEVA]

More entertaining because I love observing deer, and there will be a lot more bucks. Including a lot more 2.5 year olds and other mature deer which are a rarity in a lot of areas. Being to observe more bucks and have and improved chance of taking a mature deer is why I would consider hunting more entertaining, but I see how you can consider this opinion.

As for the DEC making more money, I don't know that they will. Just responding to the argument that this is all about the money. Just saying increased revenue for our conservation department is a plus for us.

If a poacher takes a 1.5 year old, he instantly puts a target on his back as everyone will know he took it illegally. If he is checked he won't be able to fill out his tag quick or say he forgot to fill out his tag. He will be caught for what he was doing, poaching. If they start taking the older deer, they will likely brag about which will also lead to being caught. It will not end poaching, but it will make poaching a little tougher.

[Doewhacker]

Good grief- do you even bother using tree steps to get outta your stand or do you just jump down and land on your head..unbelievable,LMAO Is this really what you guys are all fired up about is 90 and 100" deer?

Yes Wooly that is what gets the up in the morning to hunt, a 15 inch wide 8 point, because it has 8 points it is a monster. Really though, there has been a small increase in 3.5 yr old buck take but a large increase in 2.5's in the AR zones. AR's do not have much of an affect on getting deer to that sought after "mature" age.

Not going to read the same stuff again for the umpteenth time. Just hope this ends in the SE region and doesn't spread to CNY and west. Here nearly 60% of the 1.5's are 6pt or better - close to 80% of the 2.5's - both classes are young immature deer. Targeting them with mandatory AR's will have little impact on anyone's ability to see more truly mature 4.5+ bucks.

What he said, I'm out of this one. I will leave the rest of you to made up stats and hearsay.

[steve863]

Cabinboy really how much work and preperation does it take to go out and shoot a doe or a yearling buck!!!! Walk in any woods that have deer tracks and food...Boom..work done...

Man, you are ONE disillusioned person! I would dare you to come and hunt where I hunt and drop these yearling bucks as easily as you think you can. Maybe you hunt in some sort of honeyhole where you have deer crawling up your back, but I can assure you it's not that way for many hunters out there.