Why do some

[Grizz1219]

Why do some blast other legal methods for taking game?? If you want to hunt with a recurve, make your own arrows, great... I shoot a compound... We should both support the other and not bash one another...

If I hunt with an in line and you want to take out a flint lock... Awesome!!! But to tell me I shouldn't be able to hunt during muzzle loader... Why... I pour powder down the barrel just like you.. I get one shot just like you... What's with the bashing between the groups...

I hunt deer with a gun.. you only bow hunt them... OK... but why bash the gun hunter or call the bow hunter a wounder??

Seriously.. if it is a legal method to hunt with, the hunter is ethical, respectful to other hunters and land owners... Who cares what they use???

Most of the time on here it is good posts, helpful, etc.. but sometimes I see an almost elitist approach to hunting either a specific weapon or method that really would turn away any new hunter from talking on here or maybe even hunting...

I just don't understand it,.. We are hunting brothers/sisters, no one but us understands that feeling we all get when the quarry gets close... Why bash each other???

Or... as once was said... "Why can't we all just get along?"... LOL

[BizCT]

agreed, 100%

[chiefbkt]

Great post, and very well said.

[Lever action]

Human nature,

Hopefully we can learn to get along because our numbers continue to decline and if this great sport of hunting is to survive, we better learn.

Sure we all have differences of opinion on certain things but it's no reason to bash one another.I don't agree with everyone on here, but you won't ever see me bashing another fellow hunter.

[Doc]

Frankly, I don't remember there ever having been this kind of dischord until recently when it seems as though everyone is trying to take over each other's season. It's like a pack of dogs attacking and defending. We now have muzzleloaders proposing to shorten the regular season (shotgun, rifle, muzzleloader, pistol, bow), and replace part of that with a longer muzzleloader/bow season (per the "longer ML season" thread). I think if there are some shotgun/rifle hunters that find that a bit aggressive toward them, they probably have a perfect right to feel that way. I have also heard bowhunters basically saying the same thing. As their season length grows they talk about significantly shortening the regular gun season. Is there any real surprise when special interest hunters begin to propose these kinds of things against other groups of hunters? And you know what's really funny is that it is always those that the aggression is against that are portrayed as the bad guys. If we are going to have "special seasons", we are going to have to find a way to make them cast in concrete so that every time some new weapon is legalized, we don't have this mad scramble of vultures looking to capitalize on it by screwing someone else. I think we also have to recognize that we can't keep adding special seasons just because it sounds like a nifty thing. There are some practical limits as to how long the hunting season really can be. So when you get to the point where adding another special season requires someone else shortening theirs, start expecting some friction. We can whine about "can't we all just get along" (per that great American Rodney King....lol), but the fact is that until we stop regarding the special seasons of other to be fair game for take-over, the answer to that question will always be ...."No".

[Grizz1219]

As long as I am hunting, I don't care what I am hunting with.. I hunt the same way... Same ethics... same standards... doesn't matter if Im wearing camo or orange... I love to hunt and respect other hunters.. now if you break the law, have no respect for the game animal or low ethics for other hunters that's a different story...

[WNYBuckHunter]

Frankly, I don't remember there ever having been this kind of dischord until recently when it seems as though everyone is trying to take over each other's season. It's like a pack of dogs attacking and defending. We now have muzzleloaders proposing to shorten the regular season (shotgun, rifle, muzzleloader, pistol, bow), and replace part of that with a longer muzzleloader/bow season (per the "longer ML season" thread). I think if there are some shotgun/rifle hunters that find that a bit aggressive toward them, they probably have a perfect right to feel that way. I have also heard bowhunters basically saying the same thing. As their season length grows they talk about significantly shortening the regular gun season. Is there any real surprise when special interest hunters begin to propose these kinds of things against other groups of hunters? And you know what's really funny is that it is always those that the aggression is against that are portrayed as the bad guys. If we are going to have "special seasons", we are going to have to find a way to make them cast in concrete so that every time some new weapon is legalized, we don't have this mad scramble of vultures looking to capitalize on it by screwing someone else. I think we also have to recognize that we can't keep adding special seasons just because it sounds like a nifty thing. There are some practical limits as to how long the hunting season really can be. So when you get to the point where adding another special season requires someone else shortening theirs, start expecting some friction. We can whine about "can't we all just get along" (per that great American Rodney King....lol), but the fact is that until we stop regarding the special seasons of other to be fair game for take-over, the answer to that question will always be ...."No".

I dont think someone stating their opinion should necessarily be called an "attack" or even a "proposal", its just an opinion. That opinion is nothing new from me, Ive been saying the same thing for years, and I still believe it would be better for the deer and the hunters due to less pressure which should equate to more deer sightings. Agree with it, debate it, disagree with it, I dont care, its just my opinion. Do I think it will ever happen? Probably not.

An attack would be me saying shotgun hunters are slobs and shouldnt be in the woods or bow hunters do nothing more than wound deer or crossbow hunters are unethical because they dont have to practice as much as I do with my compound.

[Grizz1219]

WNY, I agree... opinions are great!!! Everyone has one, they should voice it without fear... And yes... your version of attack is exactly my point...

Edited December 21, 2011 by Grizz1219

[tughillhunter]

grizz, i agree with you totally 100%.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I dont think someone stating their opinion should necessarily be called an "attack" or even a "proposal", its just an opinion. That opinion is nothing new from me, Ive been saying the same thing for years, and I still believe it would be better for the deer and the hunters due to less pressure which should equate to more deer sightings. Agree with it, debate it, disagree with it, I dont care, its just my opinion. Do I think it will ever happen? Probably not.

An attack would be me saying shotgun hunters are slobs and shouldnt be in the woods or bow hunters do nothing more than wound deer or crossbow hunters are unethical because they dont have to practice as much as I do with my compound.

Unfortunately many of the regulation changes ARE based on opinions of the special interest groups. Not to turn this into an AR thing but DEC has openly said their moves in those areas are based on opinions with no benefit other than social. So a opinion against your view could and should be viewed as a move against your position. It can happen and has. I think the key is to do it in a civil way.

[Skillet]

We're pretty much screwed in the long run. The anti's could sit back and watch us destroy ourselves with internal conflict. Between our own bickering and the pressure from the anti's, we really need to smarten up if we want to exist much longer.

[Doc]

You can call it what you want, but when I consider the viewpoint of a shotgun/rifle hunter reading all these posts that propose hacking on the only season that he participates in, in favor of an extended ML season or bow season, I guess he might understandably consider that to be a pretty serious attack on the way that he hunts. Whether that be proposed law, or just an opinion (from which most laws spring) the result is understandably an instant aire of combat. And if he gets a little out of sorts about it, I think it might take more than Rodney King coming along whining about "can't we all just get along" to make him think otherwise. You want to reduce pressure on the herd, then start proposing that all take a hit rather than focusing on one segment of the hunting population. That sort of thing is exactly what starts the kind of pissing contests that this thread is whining about. Sometimes we have to put ourselves in the other guy's shoes and then we start to understand where all the dischord comes from.

Yes, there are other kinds of attacks that are just as incendiary (and we have seen them here), but let's not be ignoring the kind that threaten other hunters the most and are most likely to get negative reactions ....... the ones that want to remove one hunter's established season in favor of jamming in someone else's. That is the quickest way to pit one hunter against another that I can think of. All I am saying is that if you are going to engage in that sort of thing, don't be surprised if there isn't some other sniping that comes out of all that and don't be all of a sudden asking, "can't we just all get along".

Just a little edit:

I am not saying that we shouldn't have and express our opinions. That really is the only way to affect change. What I am saying is that when we offer up changes that invade the space of others, we should know what we are likely to get in return.

[nyantler]

You can call it what you want, but when I consider the viewpoint of a shotgun/rifle hunter reading all these posts that propose hacking on the only season that he participates in, in favor of an extended ML season or bow season, I guess he might understandably consider that to be a pretty serious attack on the way that he hunts. Whether that be proposed law, or just an opinion (from which most laws spring) the result is understandably an instant aire of combat. And if he gets a little out of sorts about it, I think it might take more than Rodney King coming along whining about "can't we all just get along" to make him think otherwise. You want to reduce pressure on the herd, then start proposing that all take a hit rather than focusing on one segment of the hunting population. That sort of thing is exactly what starts the kind of pissing contests that this thread is whining about. Sometimes we have to put ourselves in the other guy's shoes and then we start to understand where all the dischord comes from.

Yes, there are other kinds of attacks that are just as incendiary (and we have seen them here), but let's not be ignoring the kind that threaten other hunters the most and are most likely to get negative reactions ....... the ones that want to remove one hunter's established season in favor of jamming in someone else's. That is the quickest way to pit one hunter against another that I can think of. All I am saying is that if you are going to engage in that sort of thing, don't be surprised if there isn't some other sniping that comes out of all that and don't be all of a sudden asking, "can't we just all get along".

Absolutely right... the DEC has given all hunters the opportunity to hunt from Sept 27th until the middle of Dec. If you don't take advantage of all the seasons that is on you... I have gone from just being a shotgun hunter in the southern tier in the 70's which made my season short.. to hunting with every weapon during its season both north and south... I made the choice that I wanted to have a longer deer season.. so I did something about it myself... without asking for longer shotgun season at the expense of other hunters.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Ok, Im not going to be any more part of turning this thread into a length of gun season debate.

[Jennifer]

I am thankful for all of my respectful, ethical fellow hunters! Without you, I no doubt wouldn't be able to hunt. Without you, there would probably not be any type of hunting programs in NY the way that we enjoy them today. Thank you all, and be excellent to one another. Share opinions if you are inclined, for you have every right to them, but share them in a respectful and constructive way.

[Doc]

We're pretty much screwed in the long run. The anti's could sit back and watch us destroy ourselves with internal conflict. Between our own bickering and the pressure from the anti's, we really need to smarten up if we want to exist much longer.

Ok, what do you think is the solution? When a demand is made on seasons or weapons are you then required to simply let it happen without a single dissenting word? Do you agree with every proposed change that comes along? Don't you have any opinions that you feel are worth fighting for? In the name of harmony is it your duty to ditch all your opinions and beliefs? Don't you people understand that everything involved in the legalities of the way we hunt have always been the result of viscious infighting, debate. And yes, a lot of those look like attacks ...... what the heck, a lot of them are. In my previous reply, I talked about attacks on the shotgun/rifle people and the opinions that chunks of their season should be replaced with additional muzzleloader season. Should they just roll over and say "yes sir, in the spirit of harmony, take my season"? Is that a reasonable response? Is that what you are expecting of them? Well, it's pretty obvious that that probably will not happen. If that opinion ever gains any traction, expect a huge battle as viscious as any that is going on now or ever has.

As long as you have special seasons, you will have turf wars, and some rather unfriendly sounding discussions about when and how long those seasons should be and what is allowed in those seasons. Some will call that stuff "elitism", others will call it maintaining traditions, others will call it evolution of technology, some may have strong feelings about the fairness of some changes. Probably all will have some element of truth and correctness, but the whole process will always look like battle. I sure don't like this way of settling things but I haven't heard anyone come up with any more reasonable approaches that have a chance in hell of ever working. But I sure am open to any suggestions.

[loworange88]

Personally I dont want to argue with anyone, but I think the way the DEC breaks up the time to hunt is pretty lame. Why dont they figure out the time window of big game deer hunting, state wide, and divide the time equally between bow/gun/muzz, throw Xbow in there where ever you want. Give every hunter (1) buck and (1) doe tag, that way everyone has the same timeframes and same opportunities to take either a buck or a doe or both. So it doesnt matter what weapon you hunt with, when you tag out...your done for the year. So simple but politics always seem to muddy up the waters. Just my two cents.

Edited December 21, 2011 by loworange88

[nyantler]

We're pretty much screwed in the long run. The anti's could sit back and watch us destroy ourselves with internal conflict. Between our own bickering and the pressure from the anti's, we really need to smarten up if we want to exist much longer.

As long as there are high populations of deer.. there will be always be hunting...

[WNYBuckHunter]

Doc, the original intent of the thread was not to dissuade anyone from disagreeing with someones opinion. It was to speak out against the crap where people are just taking shots at others because they dont hunt the same way that the other person does.

[tughillhunter]

im sure he will have another argue to that.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Personally I dont want to argue with anyone, but I think the way the DEC breaks up the time to hunt is pretty lame. Why dont they figure out the time window of big game deer hunting, state wide, and divide the time equally between bow/gun/muzz, throw Xbow in there where ever you want. Give every hunter (1) buck and (1) doe tag, that way everyone has the same timeframes and same opportunities to take either a buck or a doe or both. So it doesnt matter what weapon you hunt with, when you tag out...your done for the year. So simple but politics always seem to muddy up the waters. Just my two cents.

Cant be done that way. The deer herd in NY is not divided evenly amongst the entire area of the state, and the effectiveness of each weapon placed in each season is taken into consideration when they set the length of time to allow the use of each weapon. Bow gets the longest because its the least efficient, ML being the middle of the road as far as efficiency and regular firearms being the most efficient, so it gets the least amount of time. Has nothing to do with politics. Want to expand your season and number of tags, pick up one of the other weapons.

Honestly, this stuff is way off topic.

[Nomad]

Well said. I see two main issues.One we have the purists in both bow and ML, who seem to feel the 'new' equipment is not as pure a challange as theirs. Yet most of them find no problem with tree stands,scent loc and the like.

Then there is the me,me me crowd. Those guys kill MY deer,they mess up MY land,they kill, MY deer before they get to the size I want blah blah blah.

Obey the law,the landonwers wishes,hunt safe oh and have FUN. Its just deer hunting, get over it.

[Doewhacker]

I hunt with bow, shotgun, ml, rifle, on the right day any of them are easy to kill with, on the rest of the days its a challenge. That is whats called reality.

[tughillhunter]

i dont bow hunt, but i have respect for those who do. the reason i dont is simply because i havent taken a bow course yet.

[Doc]

Doc, the original intent of the thread was not to dissuade anyone from disagreeing with someones opinion. It was to speak out against the crap where people are just taking shots at others because they dont hunt the same way that the other person does.

Well, obviously that isn't the way I interpreted it. Perhaps I was reading it with too much of a bias based on other similar threads that I have read. I think it is because the lines often get blurred between just expressing an opinion, and using opinion to bash other hunters equipment, methods, etc. At any rate if that is what was meant, then I have to agree. We had two topics on here in particular that I felt were out of line. They were basically the "I hate Bowhunters" and the "I hate Gunhunters" threads. That's not really something that I think belongs on a hunting forum.