Vaccination

[DoubleDose]

56 minutes ago, knehrke said:

I agree that there are many caveats to the Australia story, but I count a return to normalcy a success. Sometimes, results matter. As for anecdotal evidence, so long as it's clearly defined as such, there's no issue IMHO. And transparency is important, particularly in the midst of such widespread concern, even if it only shows a trend rather than statistically significant results.

Journals are full of case studies on emerging diseases where large scale studies haven't occurred yet. And since I didn't reach a conclusion, but simply presented my observations, and rough observations at that, I'll stick. Until large scale studies are complete, a relatively broad swath of anecdotal evidence is what we have to work with. No disinformation there, just the best currently available from somebody who has experience with lots and lots of folks who have gotten their second shot and a "close personal relationship" with NIH. Disclaimer: as more folks get their shots, these numbers are likely to evolve (short for: I could be wrong and frequently am lol).

And Steve, I agree with you. Neither side has a crystal ball, but both sides jump down the other's throat when they make a misstep. Just looking for an excuse to cast shade on their political opponents. It would be a better world if we owned our mistakes and showed some compassion for the other guys' mistakes.

I'll accept you are " No disinformation there, just the best currently available from somebody who has experience with lots and lots of folks who have gotten their second shot and a "close personal relationship" with NIH."   However,  you should then know better and be held to a higher standard.  This is a Hunting website, not a Journal (where data is peer reviewed before going public), and anyone here can say something/anything professionally and expertly and be misunderstood.  Anti-vaccers are taking the hearsay anecdotal evidence and running with it.  To those in the medical profession, 20% and the symptoms you state point to the vaccine being safe.  To the anti-vaccer the same is unsafe.  Additionally, the publicized evolving data & hearsay anecdotal evidence is then in the future misused and cited to claim how wrong people were.  It's not good science or practice and becomes the ammo for politicization.

[SportsmanNH]

52 minutes ago, Chef said:

All it did was exclude foreign nationals who had been to certain areas. It did not provide any testing or quarantine procedures for those who were allowed in. So in essence it did nothing. Did you not see the pictures of the extremely crowded customs areas.

He failed


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So you are the " Monday Morning Quarterback ". So let me waste my time and go through sequence of events . 

President Trump restricts travel from all " affected " areas in Jan 2020. There were 40,000 Americans that were stuck outside the country that were allowed to come home. Nobody at the end of January even knows how big this thing is . Do you tell American citizens " Sorry you cant come home " ? Of course not.

The testing equipment and quarantine facilities you mention. Did a single airport in the US have or had any of those at that time or any other time ? NOPE ! They didn't have any of that during the H1N1 outbreak either. That affected over 20 million Americans. But luckily it wasn't as deadly. 27,000 Americans died from that virus. Obama didn't do anything about that outbreak for 6 months . When he did he cleaned out the PPE supply and ventilators and never replaced any of it. On the contrary , under his administration 85 percent of our PPE manufacturing was outsourced to other countries . By the end of Feb the entire world was scrambling for reliable test kits. 

I brought my wife to the emergency room . She was sicker than sick . I thought she definitely had Covid . They ran all kinds of tests on her. The result was she had food poisoning from a lunch she bought at a local restaurant. I asked the Doc if he tested for Covid and he said No . He said the tests were garbage and could not be counted on for any reliable result. They had 100 people in a row test positive  They tested the same people 3 days later and got 85 negatives . And again the same hundred 7 days later and got 96 positives . They threw the test kits away. None of those people had any symptoms whatsoever. 

In Jan. After the ban went into place we have Fauci telling us this ban is unnecessary because the outbreak is small and well contained by the Chinese medical facilities . We have the WHO condemning the travel ban as outrageous and unnecessary .We also hear it cant be spread from human to human . Then he tells us masks are not necessary either and go about life as usual . The Democrats all chime in with their xenophobic crap and we have Pelosi prancing around in Chinatown telling everyone to come on down ! Meanwhile Candidate Joe Dementia is holding rallies .  In March Trump shuts down travel from Europe . Remember your fruitcake NYC Mayor telling everyone that its a bunch of crap and to go out on the town ?  Cuomo calling the ban a disgrace to our European allies ?  Two weeks later Cuomo and De Blabbermouth had to shut down NYC and NYS . 

So now that we are at one of the highest points in virus spread, where is the outrage over Dementia Joe's new travel ban ? All it did was add a couple countries to Trumps travel ban with the EXACT same wording on foreign nationals . Dementia Joe's travel ban only adds a couple countries because of the new strain of the virus . But it still only includes foreign nationals from affected areas . So to use your terminology  HE"S FAILING

https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/president-biden-issues-new-covid-19-4914490/

But the good part to all of this if there is one is, Demented Joe has 4 vaccines now to work with. It was said here awhile ago that Trump shouldn't get credit for the vaccines being created because they didn't fund the research  But in reality they did through huge non refundable down payments to purchase millions of doses . It wasn't called " Research And Development " for the vaccines , but it accomplishes the same thing. Just different words in the form of a purchase and sale agreement rather than directly funding the research and development

[Chef]

I’m going to stop reading after your first paragraph. It’s not Monday morning quarter backing. It’s common sense. What’s the point of stopping travel for some and not all. All I’m saying is at a minimum those people should have all been assumed positive and made to quarantine for 14 days as well as anyone they were staying with. We can argue about home Trump failed every step of the way but it’s pointless. We are where we are and all need to come together to get out of it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jeremy K]

55 minutes ago, Chef said:

I’m going to stop reading after your first paragraph. It’s not Monday morning quarter backing. It’s common sense. What’s the point of stopping travel for some and not all. All I’m saying is at a minimum those people should have all been assumed positive and made to quarantine for 14 days as well as anyone they were staying with. We can argue about home Trump failed every step of the way but it’s pointless. We are where we are and all need to come together to get out of it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It most certainly is ,the media and Democrats did it the entire time . Now that the pedofile is in office they haven't changed anything . 

[Chef]

It most certainly is ,the media and Democrats did it the entire time . Now that the pedofile is in office they haven't changed anything . 

Pedophile? Where do you get this shit from? Following Q? I have a tinfoil hat for sale in the classifieds


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jeremy K]

53 minutes ago, Chef said:

Pedophile? Where do you get this shit from? Following Q? I have a tinfoil hat for sale in the classifieds


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fine ,he likes to smell children ,mouth kiss them and let them play with his leg hair in the pool , call it what you will.

[Northcountryman]

6 hours ago, Chef said:

Except his plan didn’t really keep anyone out it was a crap plan. It just kept out foreign nationals which was why it was called xenophobic. It should have required Isolation for all common in.

His plan was a joke just like the rest of his response


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dont know what you mean when you say it didnt really keep anyone out.  The efficacy of Trumps' response to COVID can  be devated for sure, but youre description of the ban is inaccurate.  Here is an excerpt from an article describing the ban at tthe time:

..."The next day, Jan. 31, the president declared coronavirus a U.S. public health emergency and issued the ban on travel between the United States and China. On that same day, the Senate voted on the production of additional documents in the impeachment trial of President Trump. Campaigning in Iowa that day, Biden criticized President Trump’s China travel ban, saying during an Iowa campaign event, “This is no time for Donald Trump’s record of hysteria and xenophobia.”

As the article demonstrates, said ban certainly kept Chinese nationalists out!!

[Chef]

Yes it kept out most Chinese nationals but did nothing to prevent infected Americans from returning and not spreading the virus. All he did was stop Chinese nationals from coming to America. Too bad the virus was already circulating in Europe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Northcountryman]

Do you remember the public outcry at the time from the Left as a result of the imposition of this ban, though? Biden called it a "Xenophobic response" , and then , turned around and imposed a similar type of ban this week!  I'm not sure about what you said regarding regular citizens being allowed back in--maybe , maybe not-- but even if true, he would have been skewered for adopting that that sort of measure anyway, I'm sure.

[Jeremy K]

21 minutes ago, Northcountryman said:

Do you remember the public outcry at the time from the Left as a result of the imposition of this ban, though? Biden called it a "Xenophobic response" , and then , turned around and imposed a similar type of ban this week!  I'm not sure about what you said regarding regular citizens being allowed back in--maybe , maybe not-- but even if true, he would have been skewered for adopting that that sort of measure anyway, I'm sure.

Some people just will never admit they were duped by the left and the media, a good number of us saw through the BS from the get go ,some people are starting to realize what they voted for wasnt what they were told it was . A little research goes a long way. 

[Chef]

Do you remember the public outcry at the time from the Left as a result of the imposition of this ban, though? Biden called it a "Xenophobic response" , and then , turned around and imposed a similar type of ban this week!  I'm not sure about what you said regarding regular citizens being allowed back in--maybe , maybe not-- but even if true, he would have been skewered for adopting that that sort of measure anyway, I'm sure.

The thing that was xenophobic and also pointless was that it let in citizens with out tests or isolation. Bides band allowes people in with tests and quarantine...

One is a actual plan the other was a joke and did nothing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Chef]

Some people just will never admit they were duped by the left and the media, a good number of us saw through the BS from the get go ,some people are starting to realize what they voted for wasnt what they were told it was . A little research goes a long way. 

The funny thing is the only one “ duping people” is Trump...

His entire legal team just bailed on him citing the fact that he wants them to promote lies and un truths.

Wake up


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[phantom]

19 minutes ago, Chef said:

The funny thing is the only one “ duping people” is Trump...

His entire legal team just bailed on him citing the fact that he wants them to promote lies and un truths.

Wake up


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You mean act like  democrat's  in congress ? 

Edited January 31, 2021 by phantom

[Jeremy K]

47 minutes ago, Chef said:

The funny thing is the only one “ duping people” is Trump...

His entire legal team just bailed on him citing the fact that he wants them to promote lies and un truths.

Wake up


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Everyone can say all the negative stuff they want about trump until its time to get specific. the reason is because the news didn't go into specifics, they know their audience can't comprehend or care about specifics ,take an event ,put a negative spin on it ,rinse and repeat . 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Jeremy K

[luberhill]

5 hours ago, SportsmanNH said:

So you are the " Monday Morning Quarterback ". So let me waste my time and go through sequence of events . 

President Trump restricts travel from all " affected " areas in Jan 2020. There were 40,000 Americans that were stuck outside the country that were allowed to come home. Nobody at the end of January even knows how big this thing is . Do you tell American citizens " Sorry you cant come home " ? Of course not.

The testing equipment and quarantine facilities you mention. Did a single airport in the US have or had any of those at that time or any other time ? NOPE ! They didn't have any of that during the H1N1 outbreak either. That affected over 20 million Americans. But luckily it wasn't as deadly. 27,000 Americans died from that virus. Obama didn't do anything about that outbreak for 6 months . When he did he cleaned out the PPE supply and ventilators and never replaced any of it. On the contrary , under his administration 85 percent of our PPE manufacturing was outsourced to other countries . By the end of Feb the entire world was scrambling for reliable test kits. 

I brought my wife to the emergency room . She was sicker than sick . I thought she definitely had Covid . They ran all kinds of tests on her. The result was she had food poisoning from a lunch she bought at a local restaurant. I asked the Doc if he tested for Covid and he said No . He said the tests were garbage and could not be counted on for any reliable result. They had 100 people in a row test positive  They tested the same people 3 days later and got 85 negatives . And again the same hundred 7 days later and got 96 positives . They threw the test kits away. None of those people had any symptoms whatsoever. 

In Jan. After the ban went into place we have Fauci telling us this ban is unnecessary because the outbreak is small and well contained by the Chinese medical facilities . We have the WHO condemning the travel ban as outrageous and unnecessary .We also hear it cant be spread from human to human . Then he tells us masks are not necessary either and go about life as usual . The Democrats all chime in with their xenophobic crap and we have Pelosi prancing around in Chinatown telling everyone to come on down ! Meanwhile Candidate Joe Dementia is holding rallies .  In March Trump shuts down travel from Europe . Remember your fruitcake NYC Mayor telling everyone that its a bunch of crap and to go out on the town ?  Cuomo calling the ban a disgrace to our European allies ?  Two weeks later Cuomo and De Blabbermouth had to shut down NYC and NYS . 

So now that we are at one of the highest points in virus spread, where is the outrage over Dementia Joe's new travel ban ? All it did was add a couple countries to Trumps travel ban with the EXACT same wording on foreign nationals . Dementia Joe's travel ban only adds a couple countries because of the new strain of the virus . But it still only includes foreign nationals from affected areas . So to use your terminology  HE"S FAILING

https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/president-biden-issues-new-covid-19-4914490/

But the good part to all of this if there is one is, Demented Joe has 4 vaccines now to work with. It was said here awhile ago that Trump shouldn't get credit for the vaccines being created because they didn't fund the research  But in reality they did through huge non refundable down payments to purchase millions of doses . It wasn't called " Research And Development " for the vaccines , but it accomplishes the same thing. Just different words in the form of a purchase and sale agreement rather than directly funding the research and development

Nailed it !!!!

[Northcountryman]

2 hours ago, Chef said:

The thing that was xenophobic and also pointless was that it let in citizens with out tests or isolation. Bides band allowes people in with tests and quarantine...

One is a actual plan the other was a joke and did nothing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Actually , Biden’s plan allows EVERYBODY In regardless of tests or quarantined lol 

( or is that his immigration policy ?? Actually , I think they’re the same !!! Lol) 

[Four Seasons]

4 hours ago, Chef said:

The funny thing is the only one “ duping people” is Trump...

His entire legal team just bailed on him citing the fact that he wants them to promote lies and un truths.

Wake up


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Please. Trump was far from perfect but has shown that the last person you want running a country is a politician. Biden all out lied to people to get votes and now the states like Pa that are getting F-ed are up in arms.                          It will take less than a year for this country to be fighting a war within and with others. 

[Elmo]

16 hours ago, SportsmanNH said:

I agree that your statement about Australia having no " locally acquired "  shows they have done very well . But they have had  117 new cases in the last 2 weeks .  I dont know what they mean as local though. Since they have a full travel ban in place , where did the 117 cases come from ? 

The article I liked the most was the second article where Australia defied the WHO advice about its wrong to impose travel bans from other countries . This was the same policy that President Trump put in place and was crucified by the Democrats calling him every name in the book .

Its hard to compare the widespread land mass of Australia and the fact of it being an island to the USA . Its much easier to control movement restrictions for a country with a population of 25 million than a diverse country of 330 million like the USA .  The country you dont hear much about is Taiwan . They did the best job of all . They were ready from the beginning. Why ? Because they are used to the crap that comes across the border from China like the H1N1 virus .  Taiwan was the one that warned the WHO back late Nov or early Dec of 2019 about this unknown virus  . The WHO ignored them.  Taiwan has been testing every traveler coming into the country for years .

https://www.google.com/search?ei=C68WYLmnH4GL5wKr8rbYCQ&q=covid-19+australia&oq=covid+active+cases+in+australia&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQARgFMgQIABBHMgQIABBHMgQIABBHMgQIABBHMgQIABBHMgQIABBHMgQIABBHMgQIABBHUABYAGCjiAJoAHACeACAAQCIAQCSAQCYAQCqAQdnd3Mtd2l6yAEIwAEB&sclient=psy-ab

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/australia-covid-19-ignored-who-coronavirus-advice-border-closures-beat-coronavirus/

You should check where H1N1 came from.

2009 H1N1 Pandemic (H1N1pdm09 virus) | Pandemic Influenza (Flu) | CDC

[Elmo]

9 hours ago, Chef said:

Yes it kept out most Chinese nationals but did nothing to prevent infected Americans from returning and not spreading the virus. All he did was stop Chinese nationals from coming to America. Too bad the virus was already circulating in Europe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

COVID19 was already in the US well before then.

Study of blood donations collected by the American Red Cross during December 2019 and January 2020 already contained COVID19 anti-bodies.  Based on time lines that the earliest it takes for someone to contract COVID19, recover, and then develop the anti-bodies means the latest coronavirus could have been in the US was early December 2019.  Odds are, it was here earlier than that.

Serologic testing of U.S. blood donations to identify SARS-CoV-2-reactive antibodies: December 2019-January 2020 | Clinical Infectious Diseases | Oxford Academic (oup.com)

This is a summary.  Click on the PDF for the actual scientific report.

[knehrke]

17 hours ago, DoubleDose said:

I'll accept you are " No disinformation there, just the best currently available from somebody who has experience with lots and lots of folks who have gotten their second shot and a "close personal relationship" with NIH."   However,  you should then know better and be held to a higher standard.  This is a Hunting website, not a Journal (where data is peer reviewed before going public), and anyone here can say something/anything professionally and expertly and be misunderstood.  Anti-vaccers are taking the hearsay anecdotal evidence and running with it.  To those in the medical profession, 20% and the symptoms you state point to the vaccine being safe.  To the anti-vaccer the same is unsafe.  Additionally, the publicized evolving data & hearsay anecdotal evidence is then in the future misused and cited to claim how wrong people were.  It's not good science or practice and becomes the ammo for politicization.

In my profession estimation, I respectfully disagree. One of the main reasons that I post information here is to provide transparency for the average Joe. I will gently point out that BioRxiv is an online preprint repository of manuscripts that are often not yet peer reviewed, but that during COVID many, many scientists cited these manuscripts in lieu of published work. Because it is unthinkable to wait a year or more for a paper to be accepted during a public health crisis before communicating information. Transparency trumps the accepted pipeline during a crisis. And vaxxers are going to be vaxxers, no matter what you or I say. 

For those who want to fact check, there are public databases for reporting adverse events. I myself appreciate hearing an informed opinion - not everything needs to be peer reviewed to be true, and unfortunately not everything that is peer reviewed is true, either. I've been promoting rigor and reproducibility in science since well prior to the current initiative, and I strongly believe that acknowledging our faults is central to earning the public's trust. I also believe that Joe Public has a right to information provided in a timely, clear matter - the current publishing paradigm in academia is contrived to benefit the big three publishing companies (billions in $$ last year alone).

Anyway, I appreciate your viewpoint, but I have a different one. 

[Jeremy K]

Today marks the 23rd day of covid case decline in WNY.

[DoubleDose]

49 minutes ago, knehrke said:

In my profession estimation, I respectfully disagree. One of the main reasons that I post information here is to provide transparency for the average Joe. I will gently point out that BioRxiv is an online preprint repository of manuscripts that are often not yet peer reviewed, but that during COVID many, many scientists cited these manuscripts in lieu of published work. Because it is unthinkable to wait a year or more for a paper to be accepted during a public health crisis before communicating information. Transparency trumps the accepted pipeline during a crisis. And vaxxers are going to be vaxxers, no matter what you or I say. 

For those who want to fact check, there are public databases for reporting adverse events. I myself appreciate hearing an informed opinion - not everything needs to be peer reviewed to be true, and unfortunately not everything that is peer reviewed is true, either. I've been promoting rigor and reproducibility in science since well prior to the current initiative, and I strongly believe that acknowledging our faults is central to earning the public's trust. I also believe that Joe Public has a right to information provided in a timely, clear matter - the current publishing paradigm in academia is contrived to benefit the big three publishing companies (billions in $$ last year alone).

Anyway, I appreciate your viewpoint, but I have a different one. 

Anyway, I appreciate your viewpoint, but I have a different one. 

For the benefit of others on here, we have a difference of opinion, objectively debated with explanation, and have ended with agreeing to disagree.  No insults, no name calling, no labeling, nothing personal!

[knehrke]

Exactly!! Kudos.

[Chef]

Today marks the 23rd day of covid case decline in WNY.

The question is how long will this last with the new variants coming our way


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[luberhill]

14 hours ago, Northcountryman said:

Do you remember the public outcry at the time from the Left as a result of the imposition of this ban, though? Biden called it a "Xenophobic response" , and then , turned around and imposed a similar type of ban this week!  I'm not sure about what you said regarding regular citizens being allowed back in--maybe , maybe not-- but even if true, he would have been skewered for adopting that that sort of measure anyway, I'm sure.

And Pelosi standing in China Town laughing and saying “ come on down “

just imagine if Biden had been POTUS , we would have double the deaths right now !!