Biz 2021 Journal

[BizCT]

Just now, Robhuntandfish said:

Wow Biz great hunt. Too bad you couldn't spend the day there. But good luck on Sat

Yea my plan was next tuesday there with a vaca day. Saturday I was going to my dad's or up in dutchess but now i feel like I gotta go back saturday & tuesday.

[moog5050]

2 hours ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

11/11: Hunted 3S this Morning till 830am before work. 17th overall sit of the year and it was an Insane morning! The chocolate 8pt I saw a few weeks ago but couldn’t shoot came out at 650am at 70yds he made a big loop across the swamp shoulder deep and the on the rocks above me. I took video of him at 80yds. I tried grunting but he just kept slowly walking. When I took the video (screenshot pic attached) I noticed he finally stopped and was looking across my valley to other side. So I looked over there and the big crabclaw 10pt was there. He was 75yds from me so I was between them both. The 10pt has much lighter/whiter antlers. He was working his way away from me as well walking slow. Then I caught movement in my valley and there was a really spike coming at me. I’m guessing my grunting at the chocolate 8pt got the other 2 moving.

Since I was last here on Friday the cam has :

Crab 10pt
Chocolate 8pt
Bobcat
And three new bucks:

Smaller low tines 8pt

7pt with one brow much bigger than other

Tall spike who I saw today














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Seems like you have many more active bucks than in prior years.   Very encouraging.

[Fletch]

I'm telling ya you better start marketing BizzPizz!! Slogan...Wanna be covered in bucks? Wizz the BizzPizz!!

[BizCT]

1 hour ago, moog5050 said:

Seems like you have many more active bucks than in prior years.   Very encouraging.

Actually about the same as last year in this spot. Last year I saw an 8pt and 10pt one morning in person and had pics of two 10's and two 8's. All four were nice. Mostly night pics. Problem is that it's a small acreage spot. I try to only go when wind is right and hope to catch them passing through. 

Edit - here’s the best 5 from last year. The two 8’s, two 10’s and the 7.

This spot is 3S, bow only county. So they get age. Lotta old bucks in Westchester.

I ran cams since 2012 in 3N and never once got a pic of 9pt or 10pt. It's amazing what one county apart makes a difference. My dad just shot the best buck by far we have had on cam on his land so far this year.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Biz-R-OWorld

[BizCT]

11/16/21: After seeing 3 bucks Thursday morning in 3S, I went back for a dark to dark. Had my best ever day in my short bowhunting career. At 640am I saw a tall spike (same on I saw Thursday and have pics of). Then at 650am I saw him again but he was with the big 7pt (also have pics of him). This was my first time seeing him in person. He's a sweet buck. Then from 7-720am lots of chasing and all hell broke lose. I never saw the doe but saw the really wide 8pt that I have pics of, and a small/tight 5pt (1.5 y/o and also have pics of). When the 5pt popped back out and started coming into range he was with another deer. I drew thinking it would be the 8pt but of course it was the spike. I letdown and I took video under 10yds of the 5pt and spike. Then at 725am I saw the big 7pt again not in range. Just grazing. None of these bucks looked twice at my grunts or bleats. In this spot i hunt i can't see more than 80-100yds, but unfortunately the big ones didn't come into range. 

Then I saw nothing unti 950am when I saw the 8pt chasing a doe at 55yds. They didn’t come Closer but then the spike did and 5pt did again between 10-11am. Again took awesome videos under 10yds including the 5pt at 3yds. They were just nose to ground smelling everything.

Then it was quiet from 11am to 330pm when i saw 2 deer trot by. I figured it was a buck chasing doe. At 4pm they came out in view and it was the 7pt was the morning with a doe. At their closest he was frontal 51 yards. He wasn't pushing her hard, just walking behind her. Then they started eating on a hillside 65 yards away. Nothing I could do would get their attention. They fed away instead of closer and dark came. 

Epic day and a few screenshots below from the videos i took. I won't be back here till after Thanksgiving since I'm going to WNY friday-monday to hunt saturday/sunday rifle opener with @The_Real_TCIII and @sodfather for the 4th consecutive year.

The next post is a few trail cam pics and only small bucks. Goes to show you a single camera in the woods doesn't show the whole picture of what's happening in the woods.

 

 

[BizCT]

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[BizCT]

11/20/21: 20th sit of season for me. Hunted 3N with my Dad. Shotgun county. Today was his 55th straight opening day, never missed one. And 54th anniversary to the exact day of his first ever buck.

I heard a deer blowing at 655am way down on stateland and it kept coming closer. I caught a glimpse of a deer that was hauling ass up the hill to my ridge level. I never bothered with binocs. When he hit my level I put the gun up and he was facing me head on. I saw a rack and 3pts on 1 side. He was only 35-40 yards I thought (ranged it later at 36yds). I didn’t want to risk losing an opportunity so I shot him right through the chest. He dropped and kicked but never moved. I was a little disappointed he wasn’t a bigger buck like an 8pt.

When I got to the butcher the NY DEC has 2 biologists there checking teeth and reporting their age. They aged my buck at 3.5. I said no way. They seemed a little offended but I had already pulled 2 teeth for deerage. We’ll see what that says. I think 2.5.







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[BizCT]

Checked 1 cam on way out and had pic of dad’s 7pt and a newer buck


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[wolc123]

1 hour ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

11/20/21: 20th sit of season for me. Hunted 3N with my Dad. Shotgun county. Today was his 55th straight opening day, never missed one. And 54th anniversary to the exact day of his first ever buck.

I heard a deer blowing at 655am way down on stateland and it kept coming closer. I caught a glimpse of a deer that was hauling ass up the hill to my ridge level. I never bothered with binocs. When he hit my level I put the gun up and he was facing me head on. I saw a rack and 3pts on 1 side. He was only 35-40 yards I thought (ranged it later at 36yds). I didn’t want to risk losing an opportunity so I shot him right through the chest. He dropped and kicked but never moved. I was a little disappointed he wasn’t a bigger buck like an 8pt.

When I got to the butcher the NY DEC has 2 biologists there checking teeth and reporting their age. They aged my buck at 3.5. I said no way. They seemed a little offended but I had already pulled 2 teeth for deerage. We’ll see what that says. I think 2.5.







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I think it could be a 3.5, because the head looks pretty big.   They don’t all grow huge racks.  I always use the size of the skull, after power washing them, to get a rough estimate of the age.  It is easy to tell a .5, 1.5, 2.5, or 3.5 from that type of comparison, with others of known age.  When they get older than that, tooth wear, etc would work better I suppose.
 

My experience is rather limited with bucks over 3.5, maybe even entirely lacking.  I don’t see the point in letting them get older than that, since that is the estimated age of the World record free range whitetail.
 

Looks like another “shirt pocket” shot.  Congrats on the fine buck and nice shot.

Edited November 20, 2021 by wolc123

[BizCT]

My Dad hunted dark to dark today same property. No deer seen. He’ll be back at it tomorrow.

I’ll relax tomorrow and bowhunt for my 2nd buck on Monday in 3S


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[Robhuntandfish]

Great buck Biz. Congrats.  Love to connect on the opener. You missed out on the trip but def still had a good day. 

[chrisw]

I think it could be a 3.5, because the head looks pretty big.   They don’t all grow huge racks.  I always use the size of the skull, after power washing them, to get a rough estimate of the age.  It is easy to tell a .5, 1.5, 2.5, or 3.5 from that type of comparison, with others of known age.  When they get older than that, tooth wear, etc would work better I suppose.
 
My experience is rather limited with bucks over 3.5, maybe even entirely lacking.  I don’t see the point in letting them get older than that, since that is the estimated age of the World record free range whitetail.
 
Looks like another “shirt pocket” shot.  Congrats on the fine buck and nice shot.

Not to muck up Biz's journal but I have to get something straight. You "weigh" your deer using chest girth, and age them based on skull size?? And also see no reason to ever let a deer get older than 3.5?

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[doebuck1234]

Out of likes unfortunately. Congrats on the buck biz and good shootin!!!

[wolc123]

1 minute ago, chrisw said:

Not to muck up Biz's journal but I have to get something straight. You "weigh" your deer using chest girth, and age them based on skull size?? And also see no reason to ever let a deer get older than 3.5?

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Close, I measure the chest girth, not weigh, with the tape measure.  The thing that I am most interested is meat volume, not weight, and the chest girth measurement provides for a more accurate estimate of that.  
 

I do estimate deer age by skull size and I don’t see any good reason to not harvest a deer before they reach 4.5 years of age. 
 

I Understand your frustration and have been there at times myself.  Keep after them, it will get better soon, and there is a lot of season left.

[BizCT]

11/21: I didn’t hunt but Dad did dark to dark again in 3N with zero deer seen.

I switched my day off tomorrow to bowhunt 3S for a buck to Wednesday


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[BizCT]

Picked up my meat from butcher today and got my slug back. I asked him to look for it since no pass through.




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[steve863]

Congrats on your buck, Biz.  From the way that deer looks to me there is no way in the world that he is 3.5 years old.  I've actually seen 1.5 year bucks with antlers as big as that.  Not taking anything away from your buck, any deer is a good deer to me, but I'm just saying that the DEC guys don't appear to be correct in their age estimations.

Also, your picture of a buck on 11/1 at 9:38am doesn't look like the buck you put down.  That one looks bigger to me.

 

 

[BizCT]

45 minutes ago, steve863 said:

Congrats on your buck, Biz.  From the way that deer looks to me there is no way in the world that he is 3.5 years old.  I've actually seen 1.5 year bucks with antlers as big as that.  Not taking anything away from your buck, any deer is a good deer to me, but I'm just saying that the DEC guys don't appear to be correct in their age estimations.

Also, your picture of a buck on 11/1 at 9:38am doesn't look like the buck you put down.  That one looks bigger to me.

 

 

I agree that 3.5 would be shocking. Maybe just abnormal tooth wear. Should have the deerage official age back in a few weeks. I think 2.5. Antler-wise, He had 14" beams which is right in line with SENY 2.5 year olds according to NYS data. 

What November 1 pic? You mean the buck my Dad shot?

[steve863]

35 minutes ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

 

What November 1 pic? You mean the buck my Dad shot?

The November 1 trail camera picture you posted below your buck kill picture.  Doesn't look like the same deer to me.

[BizCT]

6 minutes ago, steve863 said:

The November 1 trail camera picture you posted below your buck kill picture.  Doesn't look like the same deer to me.

That's the 7pt my Dad killed on 11/8. I said "pic of dad’s 7pt and a newer buck". The newer buck is 11/17 and hopefully still alive

Edited November 22, 2021 by Biz-R-OWorld

[steve863]

7 minutes ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

That's the 7pt my Dad killed on 11/8. I said "pic of dad’s 7pt and a newer buck". The newer buck is 11/17 and hopefully still alive

Gotcha.  You didnt say that in the post with those trail cam pics so I was confused.  

[BizCT]

7 minutes ago, steve863 said:

Gotcha.  You didnt say that in the post with those trail cam pics so I was confused.  

sorry I guess it bled into next post. "Checked 1 cam on way out and had pic of dad’s 7pt and a newer buck"

[wolc123]

On 11/20/2021 at 1:18 PM, Biz-R-OWorld said:

11/20/21: 20th sit of season for me. Hunted 3N with my Dad. Shotgun county. Today was his 55th straight opening day, never missed one. And 54th anniversary to the exact day of his first ever buck.

I heard a deer blowing at 655am way down on stateland and it kept coming closer. I caught a glimpse of a deer that was hauling ass up the hill to my ridge level. I never bothered with binocs. When he hit my level I put the gun up and he was facing me head on. I saw a rack and 3pts on 1 side. He was only 35-40 yards I thought (ranged it later at 36yds). I didn’t want to risk losing an opportunity so I shot him right through the chest. He dropped and kicked but never moved. I was a little disappointed he wasn’t a bigger buck like an 8pt.

When I got to the butcher the NY DEC has 2 biologists there checking teeth and reporting their age. They aged my buck at 3.5. I said no way. They seemed a little offended but I had already pulled 2 teeth for deerage. We’ll see what that says. I think 2.5.







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Did the two biologists give their credentials ?  I have heard that antler size is a terrible way to age deer, but tooth wear is supposed to be pretty good.  
 

My first guess would also be 2.5,  but that does look like a pretty big head, so he could have been 3.5.  Maybe they are starting the count at conception rather than at birth.  
 

I think that is why we can’t get a concrete answer on even Milo Hansen’s world record typical.  Some of the data indicates that it was 3.5 and some 4.5.  
 

Did you get a dressed weight (heart & lungs out), or a chest girth on him ? Those are the most important numbers in my book.

Edited November 22, 2021 by wolc123

[BizCT]

Did the two biologists give their credentials ?  I have heard that antler size is a terrible way to age deer, but tooth wear is supposed to be pretty good.  
 
My first guess would also be 2.5,  but that does look like a pretty big head, so he could have been 3.5.  Maybe they are starting the count at conception rather than at birth.  
 
I think that is why we can’t get a concrete answer on even Milo Hansen’s world record typical.  Some of the data indicates that it was 3.5 and some 4.5.  
 
Did you get a dressed weight (heart & lungs out), or a chest girth on him ? Those are the most important numbers in my book.

It was 4th in like so didn’t weigh it. I’m usually pretty spot on. I think it was mid 130’s. My dad’s was 147lbs and my 8pt two years ago was 151lbs. We don’t get many heavy bucks in 3N (Putnam). I didn’t ask the 2 DEC employees for their badges but they were in clothes with the logos. Green pullover sweaters if I remember right.

I agree with you on antlers. Visual tooth aging is obvious for fawn vs 1.5 vs 2.5 but after 2.5 it’s only like 60% accurate. Deer age slices them and it’s over 90% on white tails. I’ll start a thread soon when i get my dad’s results. I know Jerkman and Lawdz used them last year too


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[BizCT]

11/22: I didn’t hunt, but Dad hunted PM only up in 3G Dutchess County with the xbow and passed this little buck at 10 yards around 345pm.




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