H.R. 127 gun law text released

[Northcountryman]

4 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Depends on thier definition of "ammunition". if it exclude muzzleloaders they may get a pass.

Also I'd like to put out there that there is 50 cal ammo that isn't just 50BMG that most people think of for military use like you did. How about the 50AE pistol round? ....better one....Any idea what caliber a 12 gauge is?  .73 caliber and the sabots can be 50 cal. 

Ok, so--at the risk of gettin razzed here for not knowing squat about rifle/ammo sizes (i.e., the caliber designation) -- you mind givin me a quick lesson on what caliber means?? Whats a 50 caliber and how is it different for the big military rounds and the 50 cal saboted rounds I buy for my muzzleloader?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Just now, Northcountryman said:

Ok, so--at the risk of gettin razzed here for not knowing squat about rifle/ammo sizes (i.e., the caliber designation) -- you mind givin me a quick lesson on what caliber means?? Whats a 50 caliber and how is it different for the big military rounds and the 50 cal saboted rounds I buy for my muzzleloader?

caliber is diameter of the bullet going down the barrel  22 caliber is a bullet that if you used a caliper to measure across it would basically be .22"

7mm mag ammo is 7 mm across it. 

[Northcountryman]

Oh ok, so a 50 cal muzzleloader bullet has same diameter as a 50 cal machine gun bullet then? So, how are they different? I know the 50 cal muzzle is saboted and is basically a projectile and the 50 cal ammo for a machine gun has powder in the jacket , anyhting else?  Also, what does mag mean? At the start of hunting season, I attempted to purchase some rounds for my 300 Savage, but mistakenly, I asked for the 300 magnum instead.  As it turned out, they were too big.  So, is magnum like a round with more powder in the jacket or something?

[Steve D]

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Edited January 29, 2021 by Steve D

[Culvercreek hunt club]

5 minutes ago, Northcountryman said:

Oh ok, so a 50 cal muzzleloader bullet has same diameter as a 50 cal machine gun bullet then? So, how are they different? I know the 50 cal muzzle is saboted and is basically a projectile and the 50 cal ammo for a machine gun has powder in the jacket , anyhting else?  Also, what does mag mean? At the start of hunting season, I attempted to purchase some rounds for my 300 Savage, but mistakenly, I asked for the 300 magnum instead.  As it turned out, they were too big.  So, is magnum like a round with more powder in the jacket or something?

bullet caliber and actual cartridge is different.  300 savage is a 30 caliber bullet. there are MANY cartridges that use 30 caliber bullets. 30-06, 300 savage, 308 Winchester, 300 Remington ultra Magnum, 300 Winchester Magnum..on and on. 

Edited January 29, 2021 by Culvercreek hunt club

[Northcountryman]

8 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

bullet caliber and actual cartridge is different.  300 savage is a 30 caliber bullet. there are MANY cartridges that use 30 caliber bullets. 30-06, 300 savage, 308 Winchester, 300 Remington ultra Magnum, 300 Winchester Magnum..on and on. 

Gotcha , so its the cartridge size--and amount of powder present therein--thats different, right? So, for example, a 30-06 is a bigger bullet than a 300 Savage cuz its got more gunpowder correct?

[Steuben Jerry]

40 minutes ago, Northcountryman said:

Oh ok, so a 50 cal muzzleloader bullet has same diameter as a 50 cal machine gun bullet then? So, how are they different? I know the 50 cal muzzle is saboted and is basically a projectile and the 50 cal ammo for a machine gun has powder in the jacket , anyhting else?  Also, what does mag mean? At the start of hunting season, I attempted to purchase some rounds for my 300 Savage, but mistakenly, I asked for the 300 magnum instead.  As it turned out, they were too big.  So, is magnum like a round with more powder in the jacket or something?

Jacket is something different.

This is helpful.

Understanding Ammunition | Peak Prosperity

[BowmanMike]

2 hours ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Denial

DENIAL OF LICENSE.—
12 ‘‘(A) REQUIRED.—The Attorney General
13 shall deny such a license to an individual if—
14 ‘‘(i) the individual is prohibited by
15 Federal law from possessing a firearm; or

16 ‘‘(ii) the individual has been hospital-
17 ized—

18 ‘‘(I) with a mental illness, dis-
19 turbance, or diagnosis (including de-
20 pression, homicidal ideation, suicidal

21 ideation, attempted suicide, or addic-
22 tion to a controlled substance (within

23 the meaning of the Controlled Sub-
24 stances Act) or alcohol), or a brain

disease (including dementia or Alz-
2 heimer’s); or

3 ‘‘(II) on account of conduct that
4 endangers self or others.

5 ‘‘(B) AUTHORIZED.—The Attorney Gen-
6 eral may deny such a license to an individual

7 if—

8 ‘‘(i) the psychological evaluation re-
9 ferred to in paragraph (2) indicates that

10 the individual—
11 ‘‘(I) has a chronic mental illness

12 or disturbance, or a brain disease, re-
13 ferred to in subparagraph (A)(ii)(I);

14 ‘‘(II) is addicted to a controlled
15 substance (within the meaning of the
16 Controlled Substances Act) or alcohol;
17 or‘‘(III) has attempted to commit
19 suicide; or
20 ‘‘(ii) prior psychological treatment or
21 evaluation of the individual indicated that
22 the individual engaged in conduct that
23 posed a danger to self or others.

What's so bad about this part?

[Northcountryman]

6 minutes ago, BowmanMike said:

What's so bad about this part?

Dude, this legislation --I think-- requires that ALL guns be registered , insured and a license issued --which expires every 5 years--  on ALL GUNS. Am i Wrong? I just read through it and they keep referring to ALL FIREARMS and further, dont provide a section which defines  or denotes what is considered "a Firearm" (unless I missed it).  So, Im thinking its everything INCLUDING all of our hunting rifles and shit!!  that sucks!! Do you want to have to go and register all of the guns that youve had for years--maybe simce you were a kid--and give the Feds the power to come and confiscate them from you cuz yoydont pass the Psychological Fitness portion of the licencing? Thats bullshit !!  Most of us would fail when they interview someone around us that has a vendetta , and then they come in and take my Grandfathers Savage from me?? No effin way!!!  I truly hope that is not  the case , but , as it stand right now, appears so. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

1 hour ago, Northcountryman said:

Gotcha , so its the cartridge size--and amount of powder present therein--thats different, right? So, for example, a 30-06 is a bigger bullet than a 300 Savage cuz its got more gunpowder correct?

the "bullet" is the projectile. It's the same caliber bullet in the ones you listed. the brass case and powder amount is different in those two

[Culvercreek hunt club]

34 minutes ago, BowmanMike said:

What's so bad about this part?

who will be making the determination and I personally have an issue with a person that seeks help to deal with drug or alcohol addiction being barred from owning a firearms ever in their lives. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

1 hour ago, Northcountryman said:

Gotcha , so its the cartridge size--and amount of powder present therein--thats different, right? So, for example, a 30-06 is a bigger bullet than a 300 Savage cuz its got more gunpowder correct?

all of these use a 30 caliber bullet. (there are way more)

[DoubleDose]

41 minutes ago, BowmanMike said:

What's so bad about this part?

This is what is so bad about the whole thing.  Firearms ownership is a right, not a privilege.  It is the only right in the Bill of Rights that has the words "shall no be infringed".  It is unconstitutional.  If this was all rewritten to apply to any of the other rights we have (which do not say "shall not be infringed") the ACLU and Supreme Court would stop it.

Regarding the psychological/mental illness standard, that will be weaponized to prevent ownership.  History has shown this.  The communists use this angle for every dissident that is not pro-communism. Differing opinion, yep mental illness and needs treatment (indoctrination).   Why do you need a firearm?  Protection.  Protection from who?  Criminals.  Yep, paranoid and delusional.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

25 minutes ago, DoubleDose said:

This is what is so bad about the whole thing.  Firearms ownership is a right, not a privilege.  It is the only right in the Bill of Rights that has the words "shall no be infringed".  It is unconstitutional.  If this was all rewritten to apply to any of the other rights we have (which do not say "shall not be infringed") the ACLU and Supreme Court would stop it.

Regarding the psychological/mental illness standard, that will be weaponized to prevent ownership.  History has shown this.  The communists use this angle for every dissident that is not pro-communism. Differing opinion, yep mental illness and needs treatment (indoctrination).   Why do you need a firearm?  Protection.  Protection from who?  (Criminals) enemies, foreign and domestic---government.  Yep, paranoid and delusional.

Agreed.....just had to fix one place. 

[rob-c]

1 hour ago, BowmanMike said:

What's so bad about this part?

I know your a die hard bow hunter and don’t really  care about fire arms,  but come  on you don’t see this as bad ? How would you feel if the government decided you needed a physch test to own archery equipment ? And that decision was left to the AG only . And they happen  to decide that since you kill animals your a danger to others .

21 evaluation of the individual indicated that
22 the individual engaged in conduct that
23 posed a danger to self or others.

Edited January 29, 2021 by rob-c

[suburbanfarmer]

Dark days for sure. As humans we never learn from history. There is only so much before the soldiers will revolt themselves.

 

[suburbanfarmer]

1 minute ago, rob-c said:

I know your a die hard bow hunter and don’t really  care about fire arms,  but come  on you don’t see this as bad ? How would you feel if the government decided you needed a physch test to own archery equipment ? And that decision was left to the AG only . 

I feel this is a much bigger discussion. Hunting and regardless of method should never be mixed with the right to bear arms. 

The challenge is most of our hunters dont care about gun rights and I fear we are a shrinking number every day.

[rob-c]

1 minute ago, suburbanfarmer said:

I feel this is a much bigger discussion. Hunting and regardless of method should never be mixed with the right to bear arms. 

The challenge is most of our hunters dont care about gun rights and I fear we are a shrinking number every day.

Your not wrong , but the government has done this regardless,This bill has  mixed in hunting with gun rights. It says in the bill every firearm. Maybe just maybe this bill will wake some ( hunters ) up . 

[Moho81]

I was sick to my stomach last night reading this bill. I think/hope even non gun owners/ supporters can see the problems behind this bill. 

[suburbanfarmer]

1 minute ago, rob-c said:

Your not wrong , but the government has done this regardless,This bill has  mixed in hunting with gun rights. It says in the bill every firearm. Maybe just maybe this bill will wake some ( hunters ) up . 

I sure wish that was the case but call me the glass half empty guy I am not holding my breath. The very few hunters that I know were ok with safe act also or with registrations.

Not realizing or on purpose not wanting to know that the 4 C  of gun control are very visible

Configuration

Caliber

Count

Confiscate

[rob-c]

3 minutes ago, suburbanfarmer said:

I sure wish that was the case but call me the glass half empty guy I am not holding my breath. The very few hunters that I know were ok with safe act also or with registrations.

Not realizing or on purpose not wanting to know that the 4 C  of gun control are very visible

Configuration

Caliber

Count

Confiscate

Well we have some of our very own on this forum  that voted for Biden,  ushering in this nonsense 

[DoubleDose]

53 minutes ago, rob-c said:

I know your a die hard bow hunter and don’t really  care about fire arms,  but come  on you don’t see this as bad ? How would you feel if the government decided you needed a physch test to own archery equipment ? And that decision was left to the AG only . And they happen  to decide that since you kill animals your a danger to others .

21 evaluation of the individual indicated that
22 the individual engaged in conduct that
23 posed a danger to self or others.

Here is an Orwellian prediction.  Let's for sake of argument say that the government has successfully removed all firearms from civilian ownership (and no one is manufacturing their own using 3d printers or CNC machines).  Crossbows will be next, and compounds bows after that.  It ultimately isn't about firearms, per se, it is about disarming the populace.  

For those of you who think this is far fetched and our government would never do that, remember history and that our government has embraced slavery, enacted many laws and policies for the purposes of discrimination, exterminated native americans, deliberately infected them with smallpox, internment camped Japanese citizens, deliberately infected the Tuskegee airmen with syphilis, deliberately exposed soldiers to nuclear bomb fallout, told first responders the air at ground zero WTC was safe to breath,....TBD

Edited January 29, 2021 by DoubleDose
addition

[suburbanfarmer]

28 minutes ago, rob-c said:

Well we have some of our very own on this forum  that voted for Biden,  ushering in this nonsense 

I strongly believe in live and let live.

Dont force me to accept the dem agenda or their point of view and I wont force you to own guns to protect yourself.

But they cant  agree with that freedom to pursue happiness concept and are taking guns away and at the same time defund cops. So who are they truly supporting?

I get it , compared to the rest of the eastern world we are much safer in NY but I would rather be able to protect myself and family if a need arises. We all know when seconds matter, police is usually many minutes late. 

[Northcountryman]

2 hours ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

who will be making the determination and I personally have an issue with a person that seeks help to deal with drug or alcohol addiction being barred from owning a firearms ever in their lives. 

I agree, a back door way of denying the vast majority of us our 2nd A. rights.  I could be paranoid , but I can envision alot here--like Exes. neighbors that dont like you, etc.--callin ATF to report youre a drunk , which may put the onus on YOU to prove youre not.

[steve863]

As much as people complain about gun control our gun laws are the least strict anywhere on the planet.  Yeah, maybe NYS, California, a few other states are stricter than the rest of the country, but in general people can own just about anything they want in the USA.   

With that said,  does anyone really think we can easily go from people owning practically anything they want with few questions asked to the stringent regulations in this bill in one sweep?  I can't see it happening.  How in the world would the government even implement the things in this bill?  Government can't even balance a budget, come up with ideas on improving our healthcare system or protect the Capitol building from a bunch of dumbass thugs and then do we think they could successfully implement something like this?  No way.  This bill was written by someone who knows absolutely nothing about the number of guns in private citizens hands and the logistics involved in registering every freaking firearm in this country and licensing every owner of one.  Absolutely will never happen.  Plenty of democrats in congress and the senate would know that their asses would be on the line if even a fraction of what is in this bill would get passed.  Plus the supreme court would take this up with deliberate speed and rule it unconstitutional.  I won't be losing a wink of sleep over this because it ain't happening.  Do I think some new gun laws will pass with a democratic president, house, and senate?  Probably, but this ain't going to be the one.