Why do we still have a muzzleloader season?

[Buckmaster7600]

Again, I’m not against muzzleloader season at all. I’m just saying that from a management/state point of view a muzzleloader is no different than a rifle other than the single shot. So why is it still separated.


My boring comment wasn’t about the hunting just on playing with powders and load development because I have gotten as accurate and as reliable as possible.


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[WNYTRPR]

My comment wasn’t directed at you ,just in general .Seems every time I’m ready to shoot something with a m-loader ,some how I have moisture issues .So ,the deer are safe from me with that LOL.

Edited December 7, 2021 by WNYTRPR

[Buckmaster7600]

My comment wasn’t directed at you ,just in general .Seems every time I’m ready to shoot something with a m-loader ,some how I have moisture issues .So ,the deer are safe from me with that LOL.

Lol, what gun and powder are you using? I haven’t had an issue in years!


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[WNYTRPR]

I shoot triple 7 pellets out of a Traditions .50.The few times I went out and had the issue it was raining ,and I brought the gun from a warm house directly outside .Assuming either or both were my issue ?Target shooting never have an issue .Definitely operator error .

Last year ,I had a doe at 40 yards ,pulled the trigger and it sounded like a dud firework .Didn’t even think the round made it 10 feet .I checked where the doe was at and found blood .Came back the next day and tracked that little blood to my friends back yard where the deer was feeding overnight .

Edited December 7, 2021 by WNYTRPR

[BowmanMike]

If anybody wants to save money on guns here is what I did. I bought a scoped used wolf muzzleloader from a friend for $100 and that is the gun I hunt with in regular and muzzleloader season.  I tried a shotgun for my first season and didn't like it,the recoil and weight were not fun. 

The accuracy of a muzzleloader is amazing and no handicap in my opinion.

[Gobbler Chaser]

One difference with a MZ there's usually no follow up shot, so the first one has to count. 

[phade]

12 minutes ago, BowmanMike said:

If anybody wants to save money on guns here is what I did. I bought a scoped used wolf muzzleloader from a friend for $100 and that is the gun I hunt with in regular and muzzleloader season.  I tried a shotgun for my first season and didn't like it,the recoil and weight were not fun. 

The accuracy of a muzzleloader is amazing and no handicap in my opinion.

You couldn't pay me to want to use a ML as my primary in reg season lol. Rain, snow, sleet, moisture, etc. Cleaning. The ability to follow-up. Nope, I'm good with that.

I can see bringing one to long-range spots like a plot or field but that is purpose driven. No way for general regular season toting, at least for me!

Edited December 7, 2021 by phade

[luberhill]

1 hour ago, phade said:

Not at all. I'm talking about my situation. I don't shoot beyond 100 yards in most late season hunting situations. Field edges usually result in being too late to the party after dark, except for our plot areas. Usually in the timber or edge of cover. Can't shoot that far into it. I can think of only one shot over 100 yards in past 5 or so years with ML.

Gotcha ! My one spot would be a 130 yard shot

[WNYTRPR]

Love shooting this ,just don’t get out much with it .Usually use a bow in late season if I have tags left .

[mlammerhirt]

Aging eyes don’t work as well with irons or peeps, I’m not for keeping anyone out of the woods so a 1x scope or red dot should be allowed.

Flintys are fun. I have a couple and a custom built one in the works.


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What's a custom gun like that run....also where do you find a custom maker??

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[BowmanMike]

1 minute ago, phade said:

You couldn't pay me to want to use a ML as my primary in reg season lol. Rain, snow, sleet, moisture, etc. Cleaning. The ability to follow-up. Nope, I'm good with that.

I can see bringing one to long-range spots like a plot or field but that is purpose driven. No way for general regular season toting, at least for me!

I have not needed a follow up shot yet. I don't really care about guns so getting a cheap one that works for me is all I wanted. I do realize that is not how it is for most hunters.

After trying to get a deer to within 30 yds all bow season I don't feel one shot at up to 100 yds is to much of a challenge. 

The only time I wish I had a rifle was when I saw the biggest buck I have laid eyes on and he was at about 140 yds with some tangle of branches on my side of the swamp and another on his side. When I looked through the scope I gave the shot a 15% of making it through and passed on it hoping for a clearer window. Never got it. With a rifle I could have flung a couple shots out there...

[Buckmaster7600]

What's a custom gun like that run....also where do you find a custom maker??

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I’m building it myself with a hodgepodge of parts. I’ll have 12-1500 in it by the time it’s done.

Only reason why I went this route is because it would have been double to have one made to my specs. I wanted a 20”barrel and I want it light. I never found a custom maker that made a stock rifle in this configuration so it would have had to be full custom.


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[JJBat150]

1 hour ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

Again, I’m not against muzzleloader season at all. I’m just saying that from a management/state point of view a muzzleloader is no different than a rifle other than the single shot. So why is it still separated.
 

The same reason why NYS went to a longer bow season and more liberal numbers of DMPs.   Less hunters means less game harvested, so IMHO it's an attempt to better the harvest numbers, by increasing the length of seasons and opportunities.   

 

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by JJBat150

[sbuff]

1 hour ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

I’m building it myself with a hodgepodge of parts. I’ll have 12-1500 in it by the time it’s done.

Only reason why I went this route is because it would have been double to have one made to my specs. I wanted a 20”barrel and I want it light. I never found a custom maker that made a stock rifle in this configuration so it would have had to be full custom.


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What caliber, barrel brand, twist,trigger are you going with . Bestill creations may get a spare omega i have for a custom build  not sure i may even go smokeless ( note dont shoot smokeless in a production muzzleloader )

Edited December 7, 2021 by sbuff

[Jeremy K]

I've never experienced any weather that will make my MZ misfire ,my problem is always getting the scope fogged up and then freezing. I really need something to protect my scope more then anything.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Jeremy K

[sbuff]

Or go peep site 

[ncountry]

    On our trip to Colorado this year, we had to go backwards with our muzzleloaders.

Iron sights and a full .50 cal bullet(no sabots) . Definitely more of a challenge.

Amazing how it took my encore from touching bullet holes at 100 yds to being happy with a 3" group from the bench..lol

Combination of peep vs scope and not shooting the projectiles our barrels were designed for.. 

Oh and I forgot ,loose powder. That way in a quick reload you can easily dump 1/3rd of your powder on the ground..;)

I immediately put my scope back on and went back to saboted bullets. On our return..  I carry it in both shotgun country and muzzleloader season and don't really feel that handicapped, compared to my rifle. 

In all my years hunting I rarely ever needed to shoot more than once anyways,except for maybe a finishing off shot after walking up to a downed animal. Mostly because I'm not a great shot at moving targets, so they get a pass. Just ask all the dycks I've shot at over the years

I also think we have gotten carried away with "dumbing" down our seasons with Scopes, sabots, crossbows.(wink ,wink)

   I would be happy with a primitive muzzleloader season instead..

[Buckmaster7600]

What caliber, barrel brand, twist,trigger are you going with . Bestill creations may get a spare omega i have for a custom build  not sure i may even go smokeless ( note dont shoot smokeless in a production muzzleloader )

I’ll have to get back to you on the parts list, it was last winters project and it’s been on the back burner. The barrel is a rice that I bought and had cut down. It’s .54 with a 1in48 twist.


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[sbuff]

Very nice....can't wait to see end results. Rice makes a great barrel. 

10 minutes ago, ncountry said:

    On our trip to Colorado this year, we had to go backwards with our muzzleloaders.

Iron sights and a full .50 cal bullet(no sabots) . Definitely more of a challenge.

Amazing how it took my encore from touching bullet holes at 100 yds to being happy with a 3" group from the bench..lol

Combination of peep vs scope and not shooting the projectiles our barrels were designed for.. 

Oh and I forgot ,loose powder. That way in a quick reload you can easily dump 1/3rd of your powder on the ground..;)

I immediately put my scope back on and went back to saboted bullets. On our return..  I carry it in both shotgun country and muzzleloader season and don't really feel that handicapped, compared to my rifle. 

In all my years hunting I rarely ever needed to shoot more than once anyways,except for maybe a finishing off shot after walking up to a downed animal. Mostly because I'm not a great shot at moving targets, so they get a pass. Just ask all the dycks I've shot at over the years

I also think we have gotten carried away with "dumbing" down our seasons with Scopes, sabots, crossbows.(wink ,wink)

   I would be happy with a primitive muzzleloader season 

Some TC muzzleloaders encores included with Qla won't shoot conicals  as good as sabots due to the qla not being concentric to the bore . A simple fix is using an MMP sub base and you'll be back to a tack drive . What conical did you use?

Edited December 7, 2021 by sbuff

[ncountry]

4 minutes ago, sbuff said:

Very nice....can't wait to see end results. Rice makes a great barrel. 

Some TC muzzleloaders encores included with Qla won't shoot conicals  as good as sabots due to the qla not being concentric to the bore . A simple fix is using an MMP sub base and you'll be back to a tack drive . What conical did you use?

Thor bullets I think they were 297 gr.

[sbuff]

They make a great bullet, try this if your interested 

https://mmpsabots.com/store/50-cal-bbsb-ballistic-bridge-sub-base50-pcs/

Sorry to get off buck maskers post.

[ncountry]

3 minutes ago, sbuff said:

They make a great bullet, try this if your interested 

https://mmpsabots.com/store/50-cal-bbsb-ballistic-bridge-sub-base50-pcs/

Sorry to get off buck maskers post.

Thanks.. I will . I had not heard of this before.We are going again this year..

Back to buck masters topic..;)

[Daveboone]

When NY started our ML season way back when, it required an external hammer and open sights. I dont remember if patched ball was required. It was intended as a true primitive arm season like archery. Over time the allowances (for scope, inline, etc) changed with demand from the sportsmen, as well as a way to keep /get more hunters in the field. There are only a fraction of the hunters out there now that there were forty years ago. That said, I have gone full circle. I started with a traditional hawken style rifle, moved to several different inlines with glass. I shoot  my ML quite a bit. I never was happy with my inline performance, and last year sold my last one. I absolutely shoot my cap and ball rifles more accurately and consistently (I shoot at my hunting ranges, totally disregarding supposed "potential" ranges)than I did my inlines.  Last year I got my first flintlock, and fell in love with it. There is a steep learning curve with them, but if you put in the time and have a quality lock, you have no 2nd place to percussions. I am building my first traditional flintlock now which will be a 58 cal. long rifle, example of an 1760s era everyday rifle would have been. I was bumming not to have an opportunity durinjg ML season to use it, but have taken several deer in the past with my cap and ball rifles so no big deal.

Anyway, I wish NY had a true primitive rifle season...iron sights, patch ball. I love the late season, but no longer have southern tier access.

[JJBat150]

As long as we're discussion the use of Muzzleloaders, here's my experiences....

I'm in Ontario County - 8J - southern zone; Since 2010 I've only carried a CVA Buckhorn .50 caliber muzzleloader with a 3 x 9 scope.  2 years ago, I upgraded to a Traditions Pursuit G4 ultralight .50 caliber and have been carrying that ever since.  Only shoot Triple-7 pellets with 209 primers.  The CVA shoots best with 230 gr. T/C SureFire JHP's and the Traditions with T/C 250 gr. Shockwaves (both are sabots).  To me the decision wasn't to extend my season, but to simply carry something lighter that the Remington 870 12 gauge that was always my go to deer gun.   Even with the 870, I hardly ever took 2nd or 3rd shots, so I don't feel that the single shot muzzleloader was a handicap - but it definitely made me concentrate more on my shooting technique and to think twice about taking questionable shots.  Ultimately IMHO this made me a lot more proficient shooter both with MZ and other rifles.  

I am comfortable with both guns out to 150 yards and have harvested deer from <20 yards to ~ 110 yards in the past.  Over the years, I have taken 12 deer via muzzleloader, and have never needed a follow-up shot or lost an animal due to bad shot placement. 1 Thanksgiving morning, I actually took 3 deer in the course of 10 minutes by slowly reloading and shooting when the group of does wouldn't take a hint and move on.  Have also used them for raccoon and woodchuck hunting and other plinking/playing in the off season.

Have carried in the rain and snow with only 1 misfire my 1st season - was in the habit of leaving it loaded (primer removed) between hunts keeping it in the unheated pole barn.   Learned my lesson that night, and since then, if weather is bad, gun gets unloaded each night either by pulling breach or firing the load.  I do nothing more than electrical tape over the barrel, and with the CVA, keeping the breach area clear of snow and ice.  Only weather-related issue is scopes fogging up.

Yes, I purchase muzzleloader tag, can't say that I've been any more successful in that later season - only 3 deer were taken over the years in the actual muzzleloader season - the rest have been during regular deer season.   The only other advantage to the muzzleloader tag is now it covers crossbow the last 2 weeks of bow season.  
 

[cdbing]

I see ML season being somewhat comparable to bow season. Those who want to (and are proficient) use stick and string. Those who prefer compound bows do similarly. Make hunting as challenging as you like.

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