Is Putin emboldened by weak leadership and appeasement?

[ApexerER]

If this proves anything its that i will give up my guns when they pry them from my cold dead hands.....

[farmer 52]

John Kerry and his enviromental wacko followers believe their idiotic global warming agenda is most important at all times.Him and sleepy joe should share a room at the old-folks home.

[phade]

2 hours ago, Robhuntandfish said:

cant imagine .... this morning the Ukrainain leader is telling everyone to stay in their homes and defend themselves with anything they have including malitov cocktails.  Can you imagine living like that ..... ugh

The overwhelming majority of people understand the sadness that is war and the fragility of life.

But, you must admit, despite all of the lack of preparation and organization, Ukraine is doing better than expected in resisting. Russia under-estimated their resolve, amongst all else, and as an American, I can appreciate the Ukrainian grit. See the conversation between the Russian warship and the island defended by 13 Ukrainian soldiers? In the face of absolute destruction, their response was simple, yet epic. You can't teach that - it's engrained in a culture.

[DirtTime]

All these "sanctions" are too little too late. If Russia had been suspended from SWIFT there's a good chance this invasion may not have happened. The rest of the world also witnessed the clusterF* Biden made in withdrawing our troops from the Middle East. Biden's loosing support fast again, and his "approval rating" is plummeting. He may well be removed from office along with that creature he has as his Vice President.

 

The economic repercussions will be bad, not just here, but felt on a global basis.

 

Putin's own people are turning on him, even with risk of being charged with treason which holds severe punishment, not like here where you get a slap on the paw and sent on your way. He's not going to stop at the Ukraine unless he is stopped with force. I feel NATO might let him have the Ukraine unless he steps further in this pile, the attack on a Turkish ship wasn't a good idea and made clear he's in full on bring back the USSR mode.

Edited February 25, 2022 by DirtTime
spelling

[Northcountryman]

10 minutes ago, ApexerER said:

Biden's speach yesterday was dismal.  We'll have to wait a month to see if these sanctions are working?  I would laugh if it wasn't so pathetic.

Very underwhelming for sure; hope this doesnt embolden China....

[Northcountryman]

5 minutes ago, farmer 52 said:

John Kerry

The Examplar hypocrite when it comes to his endorsement for and rigid support of strict environmental laws and his own personal living practices.  

[Robhuntandfish]

15 minutes ago, phade said:

The overwhelming majority of people understand the sadness that is war and the fragility of life.

But, you must admit, despite all of the lack of preparation and organization, Ukraine is doing better than expected in resisting. Russia under-estimated their resolve, amongst all else, and as an American, I can appreciate the Ukrainian grit. See the conversation between the Russian warship and the island defended by 13 Ukrainian soldiers? In the face of absolute destruction, their response was simple, yet epic. You can't teach that - it's engrained in a culture.

they are def resilent folks but, better than expected, dunno bout that when Russia is at the Capitol in less than 24 hours.  But they really dont stand much a chance against them about no matter what they do. Crazy times.  All i could think of this morning was how terrifiying it must be to have to go thru an invasion.  

[Jeremy K]

55 minutes ago, DirtTime said:

All these "sanctions" are too little too late. If Russia had been suspended from SWITF there's a good chance this invasion may not have happened. The rest of the world also witnessed the clusterF* Biden made it withdrawing our troops form the Middle East. Biden's loosing support fast again, and his "approval rating" is plummeting. He may well be removed from office along with that creature he has as his Vice President.

 

The economic repercussions will be bad, not just here, but felt on a global basis.

 

Putin's own people are turning on him, even with risk of being charged with treason which holds severe punishment, not like here where you get a slap on the paw and sent on your way. He's not going to stop at the Ukraine unless he is stopped with force. I feel NATO might let him have the Ukraine unless he steps further in this pile, the attack on a Turkish ship wasn't a good idea and made clear he's in full on bring back the USSR mode.

Mid terms are going to be a son of bitch on democrats . 

[phade]

41 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

they are def resilent folks but, better than expected, dunno bout that when Russia is at the Capitol in less than 24 hours.  But they really dont stand much a chance against them about no matter what they do. Crazy times.  All i could think of this morning was how terrifiying it must be to have to go thru an invasion.  

Nearly every external military assessment has been that Ukraine has outpunted their coverage so far. Nobody expects Ukraine to win, but the deterrence is that Russia over-estimated their ease of progress. So much so that Russia has now offered to meet in Minsk with the Ukrainian leadership before encircling Kyiv - Russia could easily overrun as they have only placed into force a small percentage of soliders from the 150K. The problem is, Ukraine shoots back, when they expected none, and it's giving Russia pause against original plans.

Why? Because Russia wanted to demonstrate precision warfare - similar to what US can do. They haven't been able to demonstrate it due to resistance and because, well, they can't. Sending in more troops means brute force and less precision with high risk of human atrocities and higher cost to Russia on various fronts. So far, Russia has demonstrated weakness in logistics, strategy, and capabilities. It's all on display and if anything, the NATO powers are learning from it. Obviously Russia is a force with nuclear capabilities, but its conventional means are comparatively weak. All it has is a hammer - trains and truckload of soldiers that just won't stop being delivered. That has been their entire history of capabilities - humans, and more of them, after the ones in front get terminated or suffer casualties.

They (Ukraine) have done much better than expected in this event. 

 

[DirtTime]

Weird goof from the site editing for spelling in my last post.

Edited February 25, 2022 by DirtTime

[DirtTime]

24 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

Mid terms are going to be a son of bitch on democrats . 

Especially when you think about how many have jumped ship during this administration, and those who haven't but are seeing how bad they made the shit storm.

[ApexerER]

33 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

Mid terms are going to be a son of bitch on democrats . 

As long as there isn't any mail in voting....

[DirtTime]

1 minute ago, ApexerER said:

As long as there isn't any mail in voting....

I already sent mine in for the next 100 years. I'll be long of this rock by then, but the way it's going they will still count.

[left field]

1 hour ago, phade said:

The overwhelming majority of people understand the sadness that is war and the fragility of life.

But, you must admit, despite all of the lack of preparation and organization, Ukraine is doing better than expected in resisting. Russia under-estimated their resolve, amongst all else, and as an American, I can appreciate the Ukrainian grit. See the conversation between the Russian warship and the island defended by 13 Ukrainian soldiers? In the face of absolute destruction, their response was simple, yet epic. You can't teach that - it's engrained in a culture.

As the grandson of Ukrainian immigrants, who were lucky enough to escape before the Holodomor killed 4,000,000 and wiped out our family, I can say that you are correct, Phade. 

The memory of Russian aggression runs through their blood. Though they may be beaten, these are tough people that will not give up easily. What Zelensky did was very smart. I doubt Putin wants a street-to-street fight with civilians. 

[left field]

2 hours ago, DirtTime said:

All these "sanctions" are too little too late. If Russia had been suspended from SWIFT there's a good chance this invasion may not have happened. The rest of the world also witnessed the clusterF* Biden made in withdrawing our troops from the Middle East. Biden's loosing support fast again, and his "approval rating" is plummeting. He may well be removed from office along with that creature he has as his Vice President.

The economic repercussions will be bad, not just here, but felt on a global basis.

Putin's own people are turning on him, even with risk of being charged with treason which holds severe punishment, not like here where you get a slap on the paw and sent on your way. He's not going to stop at the Ukraine unless he is stopped with force. I feel NATO might let him have the Ukraine unless he steps further in this pile, the attack on a Turkish ship wasn't a good idea and made clear he's in full on bring back the USSR mode.

Severe sanctions have worldwide implications. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/24/business/russia-swift-financial-system.html?action=click&pgtype=Article&module=&state=default&region=footer&context=breakout_link_back_to_briefing

As much as I would like to see Putin executed in Red Square by his own people, this is a very delicate and dangerous situation. And who replaces him?

Putin wasn't waiting for Biden, he is taking advantage of the worldwide chaos from the pandemic and the political nonsense of the last few years here. It's telling that Russian TV is playing clips of Trump praising Putin. Keep America fighting each other is a good strategy. Sadly Trump is too stupid to realize he's being used. 

Think about that for a moment. A former US president has just praised a Russian president's invasion tactics of a democratic country. The mind reels. Or not.  

I agree with your contention that Ukraine may be lost. 

This is the 13 that @phade referenced.

Here is a Russian tank rolling over a car of civilians.

[DoubleDose]

Unfortunately for the Ukrainians, Ukraine is not part of NATO or the EU.  The Article 5 (protection) agreement was never worth the paper and ink it was printed on.  The $64K question, is Where is the UN Security council?!!!!!!!!!  

[ApexerER]

21 minutes ago, DoubleDose said:

 Where is the UN Security council?!!!!!!!!!  

Their in Canada beating up Truckers....

[ApexerER]

1 hour ago, left field said:

As the grandson of Ukrainian immigrants, who were lucky enough to escape before the Holodomor killed 4,000,000 and wiped out our family, I can say that you are correct, Phade. 

The memory of Russian aggression runs through their blood. Though they may be beaten, these are tough people that will not give up easily. What Zelensky did was very smart. I doubt Putin wants a street-to-street fight with civilians. 

And you still vote for socialism here? Crazy....

[Jeremy K]

1 hour ago, phade said:

Nearly every external military assessment has been that Ukraine has outpunted their coverage so far. Nobody expects Ukraine to win, but the deterrence is that Russia over-estimated their ease of progress. So much so that Russia has now offered to meet in Minsk with the Ukrainian leadership before encircling Kyiv - Russia could easily overrun as they have only placed into force a small percentage of soliders from the 150K. The problem is, Ukraine shoots back, when they expected none, and it's giving Russia pause against original plans.

Why? Because Russia wanted to demonstrate precision warfare - similar to what US can do. They haven't been able to demonstrate it due to resistance and because, well, they can't. Sending in more troops means brute force and less precision with high risk of human atrocities and higher cost to Russia on various fronts. So far, Russia has demonstrated weakness in logistics, strategy, and capabilities. It's all on display and if anything, the NATO powers are learning from it. Obviously Russia is a force with nuclear capabilities, but its conventional means are comparatively weak. All it has is a hammer - trains and truckload of soldiers that just won't stop being delivered. That has been their entire history of capabilities - humans, and more of them, after the ones in front get terminated or suffer casualties.

They (Ukraine) have done much better than expected in this event. 

 

They're destroying their own infrastructure to slow down the Russian advancement, not exactly what you would consider doing well.

[phade]

28 minutes ago, DoubleDose said:

Unfortunately for the Ukrainians, Ukraine is not part of NATO or the EU.  The Article 5 (protection) agreement was never worth the paper and ink it was printed on.  The $64K question, is Where is the UN Security council?!!!!!!!!!  

Article 5 is the indispensable component of NATO. America bears the brunt of alot of cost due to the positional power, but that article is the tie that binds.

Alliances began both world wars - and every has learned the risk of breaking that line in the sand now.

The UN Security Council has its hands tied because Russia is one of the five veto powers. The only corresponding act is for the UN to go to the GA and basically do an "override" action called Uniting for Peace. It hasn't been used in nearly 25 years and much longer before that for use of military response. Unlikely to happen.

Edited February 25, 2022 by phade

[Jeremy K]

Someone headed for safety

[Jeremy K]

Convoy of Ukrainian people abandoned their vehicles and walked 20+ miles to get to Poland, Ukrainian males were intercepted by the army and told to return and fight.

[phade]

13 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

They're destroying their own infrastructure to slow down the Russian advancement, not exactly what you would consider doing well.

Nobody expects Ukraine to win. Also, nobody expected Ukraine to still be fighting back on day 2 against the world's second largest military. They're doing better than expected. What is so hard to understand?

[left field]

Zelensky appeals to Russians to take to the streets in protest and for Europe to defend itself.

Quote

"Get out, get out onto the squares and call for an end to the war. That is our right, that is your right."

Quote

"When bombs fall in Kyiv, this is happening in Europe. When missiles kill our people, this is the death of all Europeans. Demand more protection for Europe, more protection for Ukraine, as part of a democratic world."

 

[Jeremy K]

14 minutes ago, phade said:

Nobody expects Ukraine to win. Also, nobody expected Ukraine to still be fighting back on day 2 against the world's second largest military. They're doing better than expected. What is so hard to understand?

They're fighting against 2 percent of the Russian army .