Breaking news . . .

[steve863]

Oh my goodness!! Of course only DNA testing will prove things for sure. We can send Elmer our specimen samples so that he can take it down to a lab to have it tested.

[covert]

I've been told that I have a cousin named Horatio who was a goofball and then one day went off to upstate NY and was never heard from again. Could it possibly be Doe????

I never told you I was adopted and my birth name was Horatio...cousin its you!

I thought you guys were from Namibia or something?

[Doewhacker]

I thought you guys were from Namibia or something?

It was Tanzania and that was a different story.

[steve863]

I thought you guys were from Namibia or something?

Close. It's Tanzania.

[steve863]

Oh great, now Elmer PM's me to tell me that saliva samples are sufficient for DNA testing after I close my office door and logged on to a porn site. Damn near had someone walk in on me!

[nyantler]

It's just a guess whether armed citizens would help or not in any situation before it unfolds... easy to say they wouldn't after the fact... if somebody draws a gun and I'm in the area I would like having the options of shooting back if needed... others should have the right to the same opportunity... regardless of the outcome... which probably won't be good either way... but much better than standing there defenseless...

[Doewhacker]

Oh great, now Elmer PM's me to tell me that saliva samples are sufficient for DNA testing after I close my office door and logged on to a porn site. Damn near had someone walk in on me!

oh opps, I pushed mine out of some where else.

[Deerthug]

You guys are sick . . . funny. . . but sick!

[covert]

The way I look at it is if the majority of the people in NYC cared about being able to look out for themselves and not be reliant on the hope that someone could get there in time to help them, they would throw out the people in charge and change the laws. If they don't care enough to change it, why should I when their restrictive gun laws (just like their soda laws, salt laws, trans fat laws etc) don't affect me because I have not, nor will I ever, set foot there?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

The way I look at it is if the majority of the people in NYC cared about being able to look out for themselves and not be reliant on the hope that someone could get there in time to help them, they would throw out the people in charge and change the laws. If they don't care enough to change it, why should I when their restrictive gun laws (just like their soda laws, salt laws, trans fat laws etc) don't affect me because I have not, nor will I ever, set foot there?

Because of their population...their majority left leaning....and the fact they vote in our same state elections. So wanted to not they do effect the rest of the state.

[covert]

Because of their population...their majority left leaning....and the fact they vote in our same state elections. So wanted to not they do effect the rest of the state.

Yeah, after I posted it I thought I should've added "provided it stays there and doesn't expand to the rest of the State." Edited August 24, 2012 by covert

[NFA-ADK]

I am sorry but If I am under attack by anything, be it animal, terrorist, ex girlfriend or disgruntled postal worker, I want the option to protect myself with more than just duck and cover or run and pray. I don't care who is shooting at me, I want to defend myself against ALL threats... You can stay in the city and think the police will protect you... Good luck, they seem to have failed on this one despite killing the shooter it sounds like they shot 8 others in the process. Can anyone say TRAINING!!! I can fire as many rounds as quick as the next guy but in a situation like this where you are encircled by people, even under fire thier needs to be some sort of control... I feel all armed citizens that carry should have to go through a rigorouse training and certification process yearly... If not you loose the carry permit... Too bad they dont have this type of training for the police in the city... And if they do it needs to be examined closely as most police tend to spray and pray and worry about the consiquenses after the fact... Wonder how many rounds the police fired. Lets see 2 cops 2 glocks, 36 rounds 8 of which hit the wrong person. Guese we will have to wait for balistics... Wonder when the last time these two cops went to the shooting range... Again this should be required to have a fire arm. Whats the point in police having a gun if they can't hit the broad side of a barn? Sorry I am just venting...

[Sogaard]

Point of fact: NYC police have to qualify with their firearm every 6 months.

Shooting paper accurately, however, is not the same as shooting a person who happens to be firing back at you. James Bond-like skills don't really translate to the real world. I know everyone thinks they are a special forces caliber marksman while under the pressure of a life and death situation, but the reality is, you aren't. Unless of course you are a highly trained combat veteran. In that case, I applaud your skill and thank you for your service.

[Sogaard]

CNN is reporting the officers fired 14 rounds. I can't find the numbers on the shooter, or the amount of times he was hit.

[steve863]

Wow, if cops hit most of the bystanders, this isn't going to be good. I know things go crazy in such situations, but these dudes need some better training. Will never forget a cop who once came to a rifle range with a new lever action rifle he just bought and had NO freakin clue how to load it. Needed the range officer to show him how. How the hell does someone even with the littlest of gun knowledge (which a cop should definitely have) not be able to figure out how to load a lever action rifle?? I was amazed when I saw that.

[Sogaard]

I won't argue with that, the more training the better. I guess we can debate this part of the issue in more detail once the ballistics come in. If some of the wounds were caused from ricochets or fragments, you can't really blame the police for that. I'm just glad that none of the bystanders were wounded seriously.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I'm just glad that none of the bystanders were wounded seriously.

Amen

[greybeard]

Maybe some don't remember, but in the past year 2 law enforcement officers were shot on L.I. by mistake.. Both were in towns very close to me One plain clothes officer was shot by an officer from another jurisdiction(not Nassau Co.), the other shooter was a retired cop. Both shooters believed that they were right and were highly trained.

.In addition, the other day a man was apprehended by citizens as he was chasing a woman. The citizens believed that he was going to harm her, when in fact SHE just robbed him. They were WRONG !!

Question, what if the male victim had a gun (he didn't) and had drawn it,and an armed citizen saw the weapon, and shot because he believed that the victim was the violator...Or if when apprehended he(the victim) thought that HIS attacker(s)was(were) partners with the female and violently fought back. What would an armed citizen do...we can't answer that , but it could be tragic

I remember reading posts about the movie theater shooting where many believed an armed citizen was the answer. What if there were a few armed citizens and no one knew who was who....You hear shots, you're confused, you see a man with a gun and you think that he is the killer. you shoot and find out later that he was trying to help... what if the cops arrived and saw the armed citizen shooting... What if an armed citizen started shooting in the city in this case... Things aren't always as neat and clear as on T.V..shows.

I can give more examples, but I hope that my point is made with just these.

An armed citizen sounds good on paper and many times it has saved lives, but it can have it's severe consequences..

I am not a fan of Mayor Bloomberg, but what is he to do when so many of the citizens in the city governed by him are shot. Innocent children being shot in parks,on the street, or in their residences. I really don't have the answer to what would be effective, but something has to be done.( I think longer sentences is the answer, but I'm no expert.)

In closing, most won't like this. I believe that if these shootings continue around the country, that no matter who becomes President we will have more gun control .

I know what many think of Obama on gun control, but read Governor Romney's opinions while Governor). Proponents of gun control are not happy with either ones' records.

As an aside, President Obama has not signed any gun control bills that I am aware of and in fact while President changed 3 federal gun restrictions in favor of gun owners.... I listen to both sides, and I'm still listening..

[Setters4life]

Based on the pictures floating around on the internet, I don't see a lot of evidence markers surrounding the shooter.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=050_1345831111

[Grouse]

NYC cops are know to use the "Spray & Pray" method in spite of any training they may have had. They are not worried about civilians getting hit, they are worried about themselves.

If you take the time to look at the statistics of police shootings vs CCW civilian shootings, you will see far fewer innocent bystanders are shot by civilians than by cops.

Most CCW civilian self defense shots are at close range and aimed at the perp that is the threat. If the perp flees, no more shots are fired or required. Cops, on the other hand, shoot at fleeing suspects and often do not even see others in the line of fire.

Many NYC cops are so afraid of getting shot, due to the amount of incidents in NYC against cops, that many of them shouldn't even be on the street. If you fear for your life more than you desire to protect others, get another job. Many scared NYC cops are just plain dangerous.

A civilian with a CCW is more likely to worry about where his shots are going, (due to the sheet he will be in afterwards) than a NYC cop, who will not be held accountable for any civilians he shoots by "accident".

I predict we will hear most of the victims, other than the first one, were hit by bullets fired by NYC cops. Please hold your venomous retorts until after we find out.

[Sogaard]

NYC cops are know to use the "Spray & Pray" method in spite of any training they may have had. They are not worried about civilians getting hit, they are worried about themselves.

Wow, you have an amazing ability to speak for and about all NYC cops. How many do you know, personally, that you can perpetrate such broad generalizations as fact?

If you take the time to look at the statistics of police shootings vs CCW civilian shootings, you will see far fewer innocent bystanders are shot by civilians than by cops.

I would love to take the time to do this. Please posts some links so I can look at the numbers.

Most CCW civilian self defense shots are at close range and aimed at the perp that is the threat. If the perp flees, no more shots are fired or required. Cops, on the other hand, shoot at fleeing suspects and often do not even see others in the line of fire.

Actually, shooting a fleeing suspect in the back is a no-no. For some reason review boards really don't like that one, so police try not to do it. Go figure?

Many NYC cops are so afraid of getting shot, due to the amount of incidents in NYC against cops, that many of them shouldn't even be on the street. If you fear for your life more than you desire to protect others, get another job. Many scared NYC cops are just plain dangerous.

Again, I am in awe that you can channel and consolidate the feelings and opinions of so many police officers. Your Facebook page must be something fierce.

A civilian with a CCW is more likely to worry about where his shots are going, (due to the sheet he will be in afterwards) than a NYC cop, who will not be held accountable for any civilians he shoots by "accident".

And now you can speak for everyone else too!

I predict we will hear most of the victims, other than the first one, were hit by bullets fired by NYC cops. Please hold your venomous retorts until after we find out.

Well, you've already shown can predict the actions and feelings for 40,000+ NYC police and you can predict the thoughts and reactions of however many thousand CC civilians, predicting whose bullets hit 8 bystanders must be child's play.

Sorry for not hold back like you requested, but when people make huge baseless generalizations, it kind of ticks me off a little bit.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Sogaard

[ELMER J. FUDD]

Unregistered gun. Emphasis on the period.

http://www.washingto...0c41_story.html

The gun:NBC New York: “Johnson had no criminal record. His handgun was purchased in Florida in 1991, two law enforcement sources said. He was not licensed to carry in New York City.”

Edited August 25, 2012 by ELMER J. FUDD

[First-light]

Grouse when you going to fly away?

[erussell]

What, Strict gun laws dont stop mass killings? Say it isnt so!! You could make it completely illegal to own a gun in NY city and a mass killing could still happen. Now you have another problem on your hands though, copy cat killers. There are a lot of pissed off people in NY city and this guy just gave them an idea. Have a safe walk to work tommarrow. Pappa Bloomberg will keep you safe, yeah how much you wanna bet? His penthouse is way up there away from you common people.

Edited August 25, 2012 by erussell

[shawnhu]

NYC cops are know to use the "Spray & Pray" method in spite of any training they may have had. They are not worried about civilians getting hit, they are worried about themselves.

If you take the time to look at the statistics of police shootings vs CCW civilian shootings, you will see far fewer innocent bystanders are shot by civilians than by cops.

Most CCW civilian self defense shots are at close range and aimed at the perp that is the threat. If the perp flees, no more shots are fired or required. Cops, on the other hand, shoot at fleeing suspects and often do not even see others in the line of fire.

Many NYC cops are so afraid of getting shot, due to the amount of incidents in NYC against cops, that many of them shouldn't even be on the street. If you fear for your life more than you desire to protect others, get another job. Many scared NYC cops are just plain dangerous.

A civilian with a CCW is more likely to worry about where his shots are going, (due to the sheet he will be in afterwards) than a NYC cop, who will not be held accountable for any civilians he shoots by "accident".

I predict we will hear most of the victims, other than the first one, were hit by bullets fired by NYC cops. Please hold your venomous retorts until after we find out.

+1.