Button Bucks

[verminater71]

this is a real problem in area's with a E-a-B people are so excited to earn a buck they shoot the first flat top they see

i've seen a lot of buttons killed every year

[Guns&ReligionCop]

TreeGuy, I agree with you. I think the more you hunt the more you try to target older larger animals and not because you feel elite but you enjoy the challenge as you learn more about the sport.

[bigpaul]

If I can't tell the difference between a button buck and a doe, I just don't shoot.

[TreeGuy]

TreeGuy, I agree with you. I think the more you hunt the more you try to target older larger animals and not because you feel elite but you enjoy the challenge as you learn more about the sport.

Well thats how i have hunted since day 1, learn and improve.... but all my comments on this thread were never about me trying to push my ethics or views on others, i was just politely wishing that instead of a button buck a big fat doe would be harvested, like wishing someone good luck... and a piece of knowledge i learned over the years on determining a deers age/size....but its been confused and twisted into something i hadnt intended. Either way.

[WNYBuckHunter]

any " hunter" should be able to determine a button or young doe.

Oh goodness. Ok, everybody is a good hunter, even the bad ones.... and killing button bucks is awesome! Kill em all!!!

Twisting what? Theres what you said. First you said that anyone that cant tell a BB from a doe isnt a "hunter", then in the second one, you insinuated anyone that kills a BB is a "bad one" (read bad hunter).

If someone wants to hunt, but is only interested in the comradery and some meat in the freezer, and is not interested in the biology or management aspect, then using the line of thinking you have layed out there, they are not a true hunter in your eyes.

Having personal goals of working toward the ability to only harvest mature animals of either sex is fine and good, but not everybody shares these goals and they should not be looked down upon for it. They should not be denigrated for it by having people tell them they are not a "good one" or a "hunter" or that the deer they shot is too small or not a worthy trophy. (no, neither of you said the last 2 things, but I have seen it said on this forum and in other places time and time again, and used them as an example)

[Guns&ReligionCop]

WNY, I understand what you are saying and I agree with you peoples definition of tropies are different especially depending where you are hunting but TreeGuy before he got frustrated with others comments was trying to make the point that he rather see a button buck killed the following year with horns. I understand that a young deer might be a trophy to some but I rather that a young doe catch a bullet if one of them has to survive. Now I have seen an a$$hole hunter telling a young kid they would have passed on a young ones first buck and totally deflate them which is horrible and someone with his head not tucked up his a$$ quickly told the kid it was a trophy and the other guy was jealous. But I also know a guy that has hunted 40-50 years and shoots the first deer he sees every year even though he has incredible property with a ton of deer on it. He also shoots the first doe antlerless he sees. Its not like hes a "Meat" hunter either because he never keeps them. Hes also retired so its not like theres any rush he just admittedly said he likes shooting stuff and could careless about hunting. Those 2 stories just food for thought from 2 sides of the coin

[Doewhacker]

If a person buys a tag and is legal they can fill the tag what ever way they see fit, stop worrying about how and what others do.

Basically I'm saying, just hunt.

[WNYBuckHunter]

But I also know a guy that has hunted 40-50 years and shoots the first deer he sees every year even though he has incredible property with a ton of deer on it. He also shoots the first doe antlerless he sees. Its not like hes a "Meat" hunter either because he never keeps them. Hes also retired so its not like theres any rush he just admittedly said he likes shooting stuff and could careless about hunting. Those 2 stories just food for thought from 2 sides of the coin

So what? Why are you concerned with what he is shooting? He spent his money on tags and a license, just like you and I did. Hes not breaking any laws, so whats the problem. If he just likes to shoot deer and gives the meat away, and calls his tags in like he should be I dont see the problem. I also am not going to sit here and say the guy is any less of a hunter than I am.

[Gizmo285]

Seems like some people on here have the Little Buck Syndrome.

[Five Seasons]

Not being able to tell the difference between a bb and a doe is sad for any experienced hunter. at the age of 19 i shot my 1 and only bb and that's because again, i didn't know better. If you accidently shoot a bb with a bow, then you really have an issue. I'm fine with beginners shooting bb's but not the experieneced hunter. There are so many does out there, that there's no need. Most hunters end up shooting bb's because they're the dumbest deer in the woods. We all know that if you can fool a mature doe, you're doing something right.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Belo, why are you worried about what others are shooting? Regardless of experience level.

[Five Seasons]

I'd like the deer in NYS to improve in genetics and size? Keep shotting bb's and skippers and you decrease the likelyhood of larger 6's and nice 8's.

QDM...

[WNYBuckHunter]

Shooting BBs isnt going to effect genetics. QDM is fine and dandy if you can control the hunters/access, to the land, but its completely unrealistic for public land, etc. I am all for voluntary QDM.

I guess my issue with what you said lies more with you saying that any experienced hunter that cant tell the difference is sad or has a problem. There are plenty of hunters out there with plenty of experience that shoot BBs, so now you are ostracizing them for it. Like Ive said before, that attitude does our sport no good.

For example, a friend of mine shot a spike this year, and all I said to him was congrats, great job! I wouldnt have shot that spike, its not up to my personal standards. Doesnt mean I should judge him for it or tell him he shouldnt be proud of it. There have been a couple of guys on the farm I normally hunt that have shot little basket racked bucks so far this year. Good for them, and congrats! Im after something bigger, but thats my choice, and I will never try to force that upon anyone in any way.

[NFA-ADK]

I do think many experianced hunters can tell the differance between a doe and a button but many just do not care as meat is the main objective... The others that do care take the time to identifiey the sex if they are concerned enough.

[Doc]

We do spend a lot of time worrying about the legal harvests of others, don't we?

[mxsmitz201]

Welcome to new york....

[Five Seasons]

the key point you missed was being able to tell the difference. knowing its a button buck and pulling the trigger is different then accidently shooting. My point was, if you're experienced, you should know.

I know a lot of young hunters or inexperienced hunters who never get to see bucks. I know a neighbor that shoots 2 or 3 a year. Why? cause he's a murderer. doesn't even eat the meat. I worry about the harvests of others when it affects our sport.

i'm fortunate to hunt some good private land and was taught how to hunt by a family that has several generations of hunting. I cant imagine i'd still be hunting if i never got to see a buck. it gets discouraging. we talk about youth hunts and getting more people invovled in hunting, but then you're all ok with shooting bb's that one day might be a new hunters first buck you're being hipocritical.

[SteveB]

Seems like some people on here have the Little Buck Syndrome.

Which is what exactly?

[SteveB]

I know a neighbor that shoots 2 or 3 a year. Why? cause he's a murderer.

Someone shooting 2 or 3 or 10 deer a year is not a murderer.

Someone killing another human would be.

An experienced - or even novice - hunter would know that.

[mxsmitz201]

Definition of murder can easily be used in this situation. Not only does it mean unlawfully killing another human being but also means to kill brutally or inhumanely.

[Skillet]

I've killed 2 buttons in my life, I didn't know either one was a button. I thought they were both doe fawns. They both ended up being really good eating deer. No regrets, and I'd do it again.

[SteveB]

The term murder is most often applied human to human.

Belo did not mention brutal or inhumane - he said a neighbor shoots 2 or 3 bucks a year.

Anyone that equates legally hunting and shooting deer legally as murder and the hunter as a murderer is an anti.

[Doc]

the key point you missed was being able to tell the difference. knowing its a button buck and pulling the trigger is different then accidently shooting. My point was, if you're experienced, you should know.

I know a lot of young hunters or inexperienced hunters who never get to see bucks. I know a neighbor that shoots 2 or 3 a year. Why? cause he's a murderer. doesn't even eat the meat. I worry about the harvests of others when it affects our sport.

i'm fortunate to hunt some good private land and was taught how to hunt by a family that has several generations of hunting. I cant imagine i'd still be hunting if i never got to see a buck. it gets discouraging. we talk about youth hunts and getting more people invovled in hunting, but then you're all ok with shooting bb's that one day might be a new hunters first buck you're being hipocritical.

Lol .... come-on ..... a Murderer?? .... really? That sounds like it was lifted right off the placard of a PETA protester. Frankly, I see all this concern with button buck harvests as being not so much a concern about a "new hunter's" antlered buck as it is a concern about our own next antlered buck.

I am not advocating that we should start a campaign of targeting button bucks, but that one or two that do get harvested from the local herd really doesn't ruin my season or the next. And I certainly do not feel it is my place to berate someone else's harvest because it doesn't measure up to my personal standard. Why would I want to try to destroy another hunter's feeling of success? I don't spend a lot of time worrying about what other people are satisfied with, and I haven't made it my life's mission to make everyone feel like crap who harvests a deer smaller than I would take. Not my job!

[mxsmitz201]

The term murder is most often applied human to human.

Belo did not mention brutal or inhumane - he said a neighbor shoots 2 or 3 bucks a year.

Anyone that equates legally hunting and shooting deer legally as murder and the hunter as a murderer is an anti.

Im certainly not an anti and agree completely with that statement. But i understood what he meant by using the term and thought since it seems you need a law degree and a dictionary at your side to post on these forums id atleast back him up with the dictionary.

[phade]

People worry so much about BB being shot, yet at the same time, do so many stupid things without regard to their neighbor hunters/owners. That's talking out both sides of the mouth.

I love it when QDM is brought into this discussion, too. Bottom line is that MOST hunters do not hunt sizeable enough land in NY to worry about BB being shot on their ground. Why? Because of dispersal.

Sure, if you shoot the mother doe, the fawn may have a higher chance of hanging around, but it's still not to the point where NOT shooting a BB increases your hunting experience. It's a square philosophy trying to go into a round-hole real-world application.

If you have 640 contiguous acres of hunting land, at minimum, then you can start worrying about shooting BB on your ground. Face it, most of the bucks you shoot (mature ones), often are dispersed from the very same property owners/neighbors you poo-poo and pizz on.

I've shot 4 or 5 BB in my time. The last two were during gun seasons a few years back-to-back. It happens from time to time to even the best of hunters even if your intent is to avoid it. The real impact, however, on your hunting ground, is negligable, in most situations.