cull bucks

[bubba]

no i meant your question was a good one

[Paula]

oh well i didn't see that someone called him that on a post

[G-Man]

Sounds like you have only told part of the equasion, the other hunters that hunt there have probably taken more doe,and the small rag horn bucks you have been passing. you can't see their genetics but prolly got a few lousy doe genetics out of the herd unknowingly. as for traits i have seen it here and have seen them change over a 20 year period as well. do i target cull bucks?.. no but i try to take mature deer. if they are mature and small racked they get shot same as a large rack buck. but we really saw an improvement in size of bucks and points when we started hammering the does. Less compeition for food habitat is really the biggest factor i believe. but we did target a 3 yr old plus spike for several years and iut was shot by a neighbor when it was 5 or 6. still a spike. maybe it was just a feel goo thing but i felt better about the herd after it was removed...

[KEVA]

The three year old spike could have been pedicle damage, not quite certain how to explain it occuring to both sides. I would have felt reassured to have it out of the herd as well. Nice point on the does, it seem that is the best way to improve a herd, maintain the number of does.

[coonhunter]

No Paula, I recieved an answer in private that was informative and agreed with Keva, and was based on studies as well. And no, nobody came right out and called me a liar, but it sure was close. I know these forums fill up with braggarts and know-it-alls, and maybe a couple people thought I was just another one of those. All is well, and more people are putting their views in now so my question is answered. I was just curious how others felt about it. i will say that it is a nice problem to have, although the older bucks are not showing themselves to me yet. My biggest worry right now is that my vacation is next week, and the signs are pointing to the rut to take off this week. The last three years, it has held off until the week before gun season, but this weekend I started to see a mix of does with fawns and does alone. that is usually my number one sign that the rut is ready to go. And, the storm blew all the beech nuts off. That is usually my ace in the hole late in the gun season. I'm looking forward to the rest of the year, but it may call for some changes. But, that is part of what makes hunting deer such a fun hobby.

[bubba]

all I can say is you guys watch way too much tv and are thinking about this way too much. You will never build a herd like farm deer they shoot on tv and sit there and say yeah that was a 3.5 yo 130 buck, He needs to go. If you have that much time to sit and look over deer, your food plots must be marijuana which has really slowed them down.

[nyantler]

Seems a bit hostile of a response nyantler. Coonhunter is just looking for a discussion on the subject, and that is what many of the replies have offered. Though opposing views could be shared in a less derogatory manner. If you read his post you would see some of the bucks they culled weighed 190 dressed. That is not a young buck, but then again I am not a biologist.

Coonhunter, sounds like you have a nice area to hunt in. That swamp sounds golden for helping protect the more intelligent mature deer. As for culling bucks, I would have to agree with most the guys here. A wild herd has too much gene flow to effectively control what genetics get passed. I could see how killing a buck with a rare trait could help prevent that trait from being passed, but large bucks with few points are common and will continue passing their genes. I would say that your groups desire to cull has led to better hunting practices. Passing on younger bucks means a longer season trying to wait out for the big guy, the more time in stand the more bucks you will see. Also, experience should have improved you as hunters over the years. My guess is you have all become more experienced outdoorsman and that is why you are seeing more desirable deer.

My advice, take the mature bucks regardless of the number of points. Frankly, I feel most achieved over the age of my deer and the way it is taken. I won't take a 1.5 year with a gun, but took one with the bow this year. Felt fantastic to harvest a deer with my bow and I couldn't have been happier. Each hunter has their own goals, and as long as one gets the thrill or puts meat on the table who cares how big the deer was. You brought up a good topic, thanks for the thread.

Don't let a couple of harsh responses get to you, that is unfortunately how most hunting forums end up.

My response wasn't hostile at all.. it was my opinion on culling.. I didn't imply that he wanted to shoot small bucks.. I was stating that culling .. especially here in NY is usually code for I need a reason to shoot a small buck but still be able to say that I don't shoot small bucks... culling has nothing at all to do with good hunting practices or deer management.. maybe trophy management... but not deer management... simply allowing for better age stucture among bucks will weed out most bad antler genetics as bigger more dominant bucks gain control of most of the breeding... there is no way to know a deers antler potential until he reaches that potential... a deformed or stunted rack may have nothing to do with genetics and more to do with an injury or insufficient nutrition.

[Dad 6424]

I dont care what he shoots as lone as hes not some tree hugger on here trying to stir things up cull buck or not shoot what you want share the pics and the hunt and have fun and good luck

[phade]

How did i miss this gem of a thread.

Good thing im in a stand.

Sheesh. No culling of wild bucks please. Lol.

[Doewhacker]

I am going to call every deer I kill a cull form now on..hehe

[Five Seasons]

Haha cull bucks. So you would prefer a 160 pound buck with bone than a 190 pound buck with scrub antlers.

yes. yes i would.

but i agree with most. i dont think you'll be able to do much. it cant hurt but you may not be really doing much.

see I like big deer too, but what they have on their heads means nothing to me. What they have on their haunches and ribs means much more. I would pass on a 160 pound 10 for a 180 pound 6 point anytime. That is because I do like the meat and the bone on their head is secondary to me.

*cough* bs *cough*

listen i love my meat too. but I'll take that 10 then shoot a nice big doe. Damn man, you have 5 tags and people who give away meat.

i'm shooting this guy. mostly because his genetics are bad

Edited November 6, 2012 by WNYBuckHunter

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Why are you saying his genetics are bad? because of his deformed Left side?

[coonhunter]

Belo, three seasons ago on the opening day of gun season I shot one similar to that one. As he was running a doe I could see 4 tines in his profile. It was a buck we hadn't seen before, but I thought I was lucking into finally shooting a ten point. I waited a few minutes for an open shot and put him down. What a surprize when I climbed down and walked out to him. 5 x 3 and not even a nice 3. Still trying to get a ten, but they just don't grow the extra two points on the two farms I hunt the most very often.

Man, some of you guys must really have some tough hunting if you find it so hard to believe that some hunters can pass up several bucks a year. I have been doing it on two open farms for years. Yes, several bucks I pass on do get shot during gun season, but not all of them. That is why we continue to have nice bucks every year. Both these farms get hunted heavily the first week, and then are basicly abandoned until the next year. No four wheelers are allowed on either farm because people can't seem to follow simple rules, and it is a long walk uphill through open pastures and fields. Plenty of food and plenty of cover. That is all that is special about these two farms. I don't know what else to tell the doubters. We have it good and I feel fortunate. If the one farm ever goes to a lease, we are out of luck because we are just working stiffs with bills. No way we could pay. But, I would find another honey hole that takes a little work to get to and start the game all over.

[KEVA]

Nyantler,

I certainly found the reply less than friendly. Hunters using culling as an excuse is an opinion about hunters who cull. Also, culling deer is deer management, though it may be unsuccessful in its ultimate goal. I agree with you though on focusing deer patterns, which is something biologists study...

[coonhunter]

Keva, I think he has a strong opinion about deer management in general, and he just didn't like the topic. Nyantler has a lot of useful information and ideas. Just easy to get riled up on these forums. I am just more laid back with deer hunters in general. I hunt how I like, and shoot or don't shoot what I feel makes my hunting better, If someone is happy with a 1 1/2 year old buck every year, I am not going to talk down to them or tell them to not shoot them. Every hunter has fun their own way. Hell, I know a couple guys that come down to a neighboring camp for opening week of gun season and are lucky to hunt a day the whole week. They sit around camp and drink, play cards, and eat high on the hog all week. They are always happy when we stop in to shoot the bull, and are having a great time. Hunting is made up of all kinds of people. That's is what some people forget.

[SteveB]

*cough* bullshit *cough*

listen i love my meat too. but I'll take that 10 then shoot a nice big doe. Damn man, you have 5 tags and people who give away meat.

I'd shoot what I felt to be a mature (4.5 yo or better) 6pt every time over an immature 2.5 10 point.

It seems to be hard for some of those who measure the worth of a buck and/or the success of the hunt by number of points

to accept there are those who just don't care about arbitrary numbers.

Why is that?

[Doc]

I'd shoot what I felt to be a mature (4.5 yo or better) 6pt every time over an immature 2.5 10 point.

It seems to be hard for some of those who measure the worth of a buck and/or the success of the hunt by number of points

to accept there are those who just don't care about arbitrary numbers.

Why is that?

I'm holding out for one of those bucks with the deep sway-back and the arthrytic limp and swollen knees. I kind of like to wait until they are toothless and whining in pain before I shoot them. Sometimes I'll go out of my way to shoot the ones with the 40 pound tumors hanging off them too. And the one's with the glossed over white eyes are primed for harvest too. Just doing my part in the culling .... lol.

[bubba]

yes. yes i would.

but i agree with most. i dont think you'll be able to do much. it cant hurt but you may not be really doing much.

*cough* bullshit *cough*

listen i love my meat too. but I'll take that 10 then shoot a nice big doe. Damn man, you have 5 tags and people who give away meat.

i'm shooting this guy. mostly because his genetics are bad

sorry but your responses make no sense. Could you clarify. I think you were in the food plot again.

[nyantler]

yes. yes i would.

but i agree with most. i dont think you'll be able to do much. it cant hurt but you may not be really doing much.

*cough* bullshit *cough*

listen i love my meat too. but I'll take that 10 then shoot a nice big doe. Damn man, you have 5 tags and people who give away meat.

i'm shooting this guy. mostly because his genetics are bad

You can't know that his genetics are bad... the same type of antler deformity occurs from an injury to the opposite side of his body... or even an injury to the pedicle of that antler... neither will produce offspring with the same antler configuration.I'm not killing him cuz his tail sticks up!

Edited November 6, 2012 by nyantler

[Five Seasons]

no ability to detect sarcasim here? That's a nice buck is what I was saying, regardless of his goofy rack and i think 95% of us would be happy to take him.

@ bubba, I'm not sure what you mean by food plot? there's not a single food plot in any of the 3 places i hunt. That trail cam is over a natural scrape.

Man, some of you guys must really have some tough hunting if you find it so hard to believe that some hunters can pass up several bucks a year.

i agree. I usually pass on smaller bucks but sometimes just run into life vs time in the woods struggles. My father and uncles who are older with more vacation pass on bucks quite often.

Edited November 6, 2012 by Belo