Another Mass shooting this time in Texas

[Robhuntandfish]

1 hour ago, rachunter said:

Well I wish you and the family the best of luck there. Just doesn’t sound like a good environment to raise a family.
I’ve been shooting my .357 all morning while stacking firewood. I can’t get any consistence past 30yrds.


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i look at my pistol as a way to get me to a real gun. Lol   I bought a judge so i can shoot .410 shot and be sure i hit something.   A bear charges me im bound to get him somewhere in the spray! 

[rachunter]

i look at my pistol as a way to get me to a real gun. Lol   I bought a judge so i can shoot .410 shot and be sure i hit something.   A bear charges me im bound to get him somewhere in the spray! 

I bought the .357 to deer hunt. I’d take a shot at a bear if it was within 20-25 yards.


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[rachunter]

In all honesty if there was civil unrest I’d be gone in the first wave. I came to terms with dying 28 years ago.
It’s not going to be one on one. groups/gangs are going to dominate. Then the strongest group/gang will rule.


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[Judoka95]

I know I will regret getting involved in this discussion but.... I already had arguments with some family members this weekend so I might as well keep the trend going.

I believe that statistics can prove banning guns does not = lower murder rates. I always go back to the argument, if passing laws work, why don't they just pass a law that makes murder illegal?? Answer: because criminals don't care about laws!!! Most murders in our major cities are committed with handguns, and those same cities have the strictest gun laws in the country. 

I also strongly object to the idea that a purely defensive item, such as body armor should ever be made illegal. It amazes me how quickly individuals will surrender their rights to emotional. fact less, arguments. Or to the argument of "why would anyone NEED that".

Our rights are not based on the premise of individuals having to show Need.

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.   Benjamin Franklin

[rachunter]

I know I will regret getting involved in this discussion but.... I already had arguments with some family members this weekend so I might as well keep the trend going.
I believe that statistics can prove banning guns does not = lower murder rates. I always go back to the argument, if passing laws work, why don't they just pass a law that makes murder illegal?? Answer: because criminals don't care about laws!!! Most murders in our major cities are committed with handguns, and those same cities have the strictest gun laws in the country. 
I also strongly object to the idea that a purely defensive item, such as body armor should ever be made illegal. It amazes me how quickly individuals will surrender their rights to emotional. fact less, arguments. Or to the argument of "why would anyone NEED that".
Our rights are not based on the premise of individuals having to show Need.
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.   Benjamin Franklin

I was reluctant to ask but kinda glad I did. I got some good replies.


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[phantom]

12 hours ago, BowmanMike said:

Check the fbi report. the number of citizens with guns stopping a crime is 3%. Unarmed people stop more crimes.

I don't know if you can trust Biden's FBI right now but for argument's sake lets say  3% translates to thousands of people that saved themselfs from a crime per year . And how many school shooting ? Less than 5 per year definitely not in the hundreds or thousands . 

 

[phantom]

12 hours ago, BowmanMike said:

Check the fbi report. the number of citizens with guns stopping a crime is 3%. Unarmed people stop more crimes.

Bowman  what happens if they pass a new AR law and it still happens you think its going to stop there thats the problem there goal is simply to disarm the public . I mean better security with Hardening doors in schools like i mentioned above is  much easier than disarming the public yet the left ignors those ideas. 

[Shoots100]

  14 hours ago, BowmanMike said:

Check the fbi report. the number of citizens with guns stopping a crime is 3%. Unarmed people stop more crimes.

I was always told, don't bring and arm to a gunfight.

Do you know why unarmed people stop crimes, because their not allowed to carry guns.

The only reason anyone in their right mind would confront an armed person, is because they have no other choice. 

 

[BowmanMike]

9 hours ago, Shoots100 said:

  14 hours ago, BowmanMike said:

Check the fbi report. the number of citizens with guns stopping a crime is 3%. Unarmed people stop more crimes.

I was always told, don't bring and arm to a gunfight.

Do you know why unarmed people stop crimes, because their not allowed to carry guns.

The only reason anyone in their right mind would confront an armed person, is because they have no other choice. 

 

Goes to show you don't need a gun. What is your idea? Arm everyone? I think whoever is going to carry a gun already has one. I have no use for a handgun. 

[Grouse]

Survey data indicate that in 95% of cases when people use guns defensively, they merely show the gun to make the criminal back off.

Many crimes also go unreported, so it is likely that many defensive gun uses are never known to the police – and thus unknown to the media. Numbers from the Bureau of Justice Statistics show that less than half of violent crime victims report violent crime to police.

https://www.thecentersquare.com/national/op-ed-there-are-far-more-defensive-gun-uses-than-murders-here-s-why-you/article_7d5b4f5c-31a7-11ec-984d-b30a35ede8d5.html

[Grouse]

John Lott, an economist and guns rights advocate, argues in both More Guns, Less Crime and The Bias Against Guns that media coverage of defensive gun use is rare, noting that in general, only shootings ending in fatalities are discussed in news stories. In More Guns, Less Crime, Lott writes that "[s]ince in many defensive cases a handgun is simply brandished, and no one is harmed, many defensive uses are never even reported to the police".

Attempting to quantify this phenomenon, in the first edition of the book, published in May 1998, Lott wrote that "national surveys" suggested that "98 percent of the time that people use guns defensively, they merely have to brandish a weapon to break off an attack." The higher the rate of defensive gun uses that do not end in the attacker being killed or wounded, the easier it is to explain why defensive gun uses are not covered by the media without reference to media bias. Lott cited the figure frequently in the media, including publications like The Wall Street Journal^[27] and the Los Angeles Times.^[28]

[Grouse]

 

[Waterfowler]

17 hours ago, Nomad said:

The small key chain stuff can be sold by gun shops and pharmacies of all places . I’d go for,pepper gel and a much larger size , either a “ can “ or “ half can “ size . Buy a few so one cam practice .

Buy it on vacation out of state  or if you spend enough time looking online you will at one point find someone who’ll ship it to you in NYS .

Sabre Red is a proven one I’ve heard 

I wouldn’t recommend the gel. My department had it and did away with it. Was not nearly as effective as the spray

[ApexerER]

20 hours ago, rachunter said:

I agree it’s a mental health issue. I’m not for any new gun laws they don’t enforce the one we have already or stop criminals or human defects. Your right I don’t know the answer ether,but something needs to be done a fast. You can’t put the blame totally on the left the right had control and did nothing ether.
It just seemed wrong that someone could go and buy two weapons ammo and body armor and no one should question it. If he indeed bought it all at once.


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IMO, i think you should be able to go buy whatever you want anytime you want. I don't see his purchase anything out of the norm for someone that might be looking for home protection or anything like that.....

BUT, how was he able to purchase any type of gun when he was arrested previously for threatening to shoot up a school? You do something like that you should be eliminated from ever being able to purchase a firearm, what is a NICS check actually checking? IMO, he shouldn't have been able to purchase those guns in the first place and should have been arrested again for trying.....Every time there is a shooting we see that laws that are already on the books are not enforced and all the mistakes that were made leading up too it.....

I'd like to know where this kid got the money for two rifles and 1000 rds of ammo. That isn't cheap these days....

[The_Real_TCIII]

18 minutes ago, ApexerER said:

IMO, i think you should be able to go buy whatever you want anytime you want. I don't see his purchase anything out of the norm for someone that might be looking for home protection or anything like that.....

BUT, how was he able to purchase any type of gun when he was arrested previously for threatening to shoot up a school? You do something like that you should be eliminated from ever being able to purchase a firearm, what is a NICS check actually checking? IMO, he shouldn't have been able to purchase those guns in the first place and should have been arrested again for trying.....Every time there is a shooting we see that laws that are already on the books are not enforced and all the mistakes that were made leading up too it.....

I'd like to know where this kid got the money for two rifles and 1000 rds of ammo. That isn't cheap these days....

Did he also have a $70k truck? Theres a lot of info flying around

[ApexerER]

19 minutes ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

Did he also have a $70k truck? Theres a lot of info flying around

I just heard he crashed his truck. No idea what kind of truck it was....

[johnplav]

5 minutes ago, ApexerER said:

I just heard he crashed his truck. No idea what kind of truck it was....

Older F-150

[BizCT]

21 hours ago, Robhuntandfish said:

i look at my pistol as a way to get me to a real gun. Lol   I bought a judge so i can shoot .410 shot and be sure i hit something.   A bear charges me im bound to get him somewhere in the spray! 

How do you like the Taurus Judge? I almost bought one many years ago. Figured the shotshells would be cool for rodents/snakes in the woods.

[Robhuntandfish]

How do you like the Taurus Judge? I almost bought one many years ago. Figured the shotshells would be cool for rodents/snakes in the woods.

I actually went thru 3 guns before unsettled with this one. Had a .22 Mag setup for my first and changed that to a .327, then bought a bond arms ranger and traded it in for the Taurus. I love it. I got the poly and it is lighter to carry and slimmer as it has a 5 round capacity. And all the different rounds you can use are pretty cool. From .45 lc to .410 slugs, defense rounds and even shot shells. Only pistol I will ever have.

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[Robhuntandfish]

It isn't about mental health or guns both sides are wrong. There will always be people who are unstable with evil in their hearts and there will always be guns legal or illegal. The issue is security.

When a mass shooting starts how do they always end? When the shooter is confronted with force. Either he gets taken out or takes himself out at that point. So why can't there be armed security so that this happens sooner rather than later and have this on site! Seems fairly simple to me.

Central Square school has some very impressive security. Check out the video on this link (much better than the article). All schools should have this at this point. https://www.localsyr.com/news/local-news/central-square-school-district-taking-safety-seriously/


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[ApexerER]

24 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

It isn't about mental health or guns both sides are wrong. There will always be people who are unstable with evil in their hearts and there will always be guns legal or illegal. The issue is security.

When a mass shooting starts how do they always end? When the shooter is confronted with force. Either he gets taken out or takes himself out at that point. So why can't there be armed security so that this happens sooner rather than later and have this on site! Seems fairly simple to me.

Central Square school has some very impressive security. Check out the video on this link (much better than the article). All schools should have this at this point. https://www.localsyr.com/news/local-news/central-square-school-district-taking-safety-seriously/


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While I agree that ALL schools should have more security in every shape and form. I disagree that it isn't about mental health. Normal people do not shoot kids, schools, random people, etc....  That also goes for people that set fires in crowded buildings, run over people in the street or in a parade, set bombs or any other form of mass murder. These people are psychopaths and we need to figure out a way to deal with them before things escalate to this proportion. We always are shown all the signs after the fact....

[Robhuntandfish]

59 minutes ago, ApexerER said:

While I agree that ALL schools should have more security in every shape and form. I disagree that it isn't about mental health. Normal people do not shoot kids, schools, random people, etc....  That also goes for people that set fires in crowded buildings, run over people in the street or in a parade, set bombs or any other form of mass murder. These people are psychopaths and we need to figure out a way to deal with them before things escalate to this proportion. We always are shown all the signs after the fact....

Thats my point exactly.  There were signs out there and nothign was done yet again....these people will always be around.  Evil like that always has and always will and to think we are able to monitor and stiffle it all is a pipe dream.  And not all of them show signs.  Unless you want China and complete big brother watching everything you cant cover it all.  Even though people know about it you also have to have them report it as well.  Too big of a loophole for me.  If the security is put into place we are better covered regardless. 

Edited June 1, 2022 by Robhuntandfish

[left field]

Put mental health aside; put the guns aside. This is a disaster of policing. They trained for this exact scenario then failed to follow their own protocol. 

 

[rachunter]

IMO, i think you should be able to go buy whatever you want anytime you want. I don't see his purchase anything out of the norm for someone that might be looking for home protection or anything like that.....
BUT, how was he able to purchase any type of gun when he was arrested previously for threatening to shoot up a school? You do something like that you should be eliminated from ever being able to purchase a firearm, what is a NICS check actually checking? IMO, he shouldn't have been able to purchase those guns in the first place and should have been arrested again for trying.....Every time there is a shooting we see that laws that are already on the books are not enforced and all the mistakes that were made leading up too it.....
I'd like to know where this kid got the money for two rifles and 1000 rds of ammo. That isn't cheap these days....

It’s really not normal for an 18 year old to need body armor. The guns and ammo sure. Add all three together spells trouble. A quick check by an ATF official may have stopped this. Like I said before if he bought it all at once. If he pieced it together if would be impossible to track.
I’m not 100% sure but the background check are for criminal offenses. He was never convicted of any. They need to have access to mental health issues if they don’t already. Screw that doctor patient confidentiality crap if someone makes a threat like that investigate it diligently.
If he was saving up his money to buy all that stuff he wasn’t as crazy as we think. That takes though and planning it seemed to me he snapped at that moment and went on his rampage.
I heard on the news his grandmother worked at the school do you think she may have been taunting him about how much better her school kids where compared to him? I thought the same thing with the nutjob from sandy hook his mother worked at that school.


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[Judoka95]

There's that word NEED again. And we are talking about a purely protective item.

What if the Gov said you can no longer put a safe room in your house because you "could" hide from authorities?

Or if they said you could no longer own a safe because you could hide things inside that they want access to?

Where does it stop?

I would also like to add that if the Gov (State or Fed) wants to continue raising the age of everything to 21 they had better plan on changing the rules for the military and selective service. The hypocrisy of saying "You can't buy a gun, or cigarettes, or a beer, but you are old enough to be drafted and sent to some foreign country to fight and die to defend the "rights" that you are not allowed to enjoy" should bother everyone who has a real conscience.