NYS DMP Lottery

[JR60]

As a landowner with over 100 acres I got turned down the last two years for a permit , the office where I get my licence says its how the lottery works and that I should call the DEC . I did call last year gave them my tax ID # they said one would be mailed , never receieved one . Same this year so far . I thought land owner status your guaranteed one ?

[hunter]

I think you are supposed to get a DMP for every 50 acres. You should definitely check on this. I thought you give your tax number when you buy your licens and it was automatic but I'm not sure.

[landtracdeerhunter]

Are you talking about DMAP program? That is for landowners with 50+ acres.

Edited September 14, 2011 by landtracdeerhunter

[GreeneHunter]

Hey .... I've started a DMP SWAP topic / forum here , couldnt find one anywhere else !

[G-Man]

A landowner is guareeteed a dmp in the area where the land is owned. I think most peoples problems are not with the dmp system but with the person inputting the info into the computer.. if you have 4 preference points someone isnt entering them in the proper place on the screen or not at all.. I i was a land owner and didn't get my dmp i would go to a different issuing agent. A lot of places the help is temporary and they just dont care to spend the time to input the information properly..

[bubba]

you do not get a dmp for every 50 acres, you have to own 50 acres to qualify as a land owner. There is no guarantee of a permit then, but it is supposed to increase yur odds. Wanna see the dmps go up? Stop applying for them. If the DEC sees people are not going to spend the money, they will make the odds better to get your money. . I do not see not getting a permit for 3 or 4 years a horror story, but when you do get one, it is a bonus. I own 250 acres and do no ttake advantage of it as I do not see the need. I would prefer the doe poplation stay up a little in my personal area. One guy got a dmp this year out of 8 hunters, I will use the muzzleloaer to get one and hten hunt a buck. I do not need a free tag to kill another I would st as soon let walk. Hunt harder for the one you can take. However, if they keep reducing dmp's you can kiss qdm goodbye. People will stop buying licenses if they are not going to have a chance to harvest 4 or 5 deer, and the DEC will not let sales go to the wayside. I personally am concerned about the people who NEED 3 or 4 deer to keep from starving to death.

[First-light]

I always thought being a land owner was a slam dunk on getting a permit. Bubba is right it just increases your odds, puts you at the top of the list. I also read that you do need to bring your tax bill every year to get the permit, still doesn't prove you own the land at the time of buying the permit but rules are rules. I will apologize to that kid who gave me a hard time when I applied for the landowner permit. It's black and white.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Hey .... I've started a DMP SWAP topic / forum here , couldnt find one anywhere else !

Look right at the top of this forum, it sticky'd

[Dom]

Ive got an idea why dont we go back to when we could only Harvest bucks but this time only Harvest does then real reason most of us hunt is to provide extra meat for our familys and freinds so how about that thaught good idea I think

[noahmstone]

Ok, so lets really get into the details of it all. How do you suppose they use the preference points of the landowner stuff. Do they simply flat-out give them the permit or do they somehow factor in some better odds for those that have these preferred items? It all sounds so complicated, I'm not sure how I would design the system myself. It's pretty tricky stuff. It's not all that important, but it sure does get the curiosity going, and then too, maybe it is all that important for those people that habitually get turned down......lol.

Doc

In 6A I have yet to talk to a qualified land owner that has been denied for a dmp. I have on the other hand talked to hunters with 5 preference points that have been denied. The way it was explained to me was qualified land owners get them on a first come first serve basis and everyone else get put in the lottery for the remaining dmps. In the 4 years I applied I was always denied and there never seems to be any left over permits for 6A.

[G-Man]

if permits are issued: a landowner that has 50 contiguous acres or more they will get a permit in the area the land is owned in..slamdunk! if they don't its the person behind the counter entering the information wrong!!! you can't own land in say 8p and apply for 9w first...you must apply for your landowner choice first! its all on how they enter it on the screens......

Edited September 25, 2011 by G-Man

[GreeneHunter]

Why fix something that works ? The LOTTERY system works quite well . I get 2 every year ! :

Lucky Guy .... Brown is Down !!!

[Doc]

In 6A I have yet to talk to a qualified land owner that has been denied for a dmp. I have on the other hand talked to hunters with 5 preference points that have been denied. The way it was explained to me was qualified land owners get them on a first come first serve basis and everyone else get put in the lottery for the remaining dmps. In the 4 years I applied I was always denied and there never seems to be any left over permits for 6A.

So what do you think ..... if you have 5 preference points do you get resubmitted for 5 times in the drawing until you get a permit or until you have run out of the 5 free draws? I'm still trying to figure out how they actually use these preference points in the drawing. Nobody has ever explained that. Has anyone ever seen that explained anywhere?

And then, when it comes to Landowner applications, how in the heck do they factor that in there. Is it indeed a block of permits set aside and doled out on a first come-first serve basis. Or do they try to give every landowner a permit. Or do they try to play around with the odds in some way to give landowners an "X"-times better chance than the non-landowner. Is there anywhere where all that stuff is officially explained? Just curious in case the day ever comes that I am depending on preference points or something. It would be nice to understand the system.

[First-light]

I'm a land owner and never have been denied or had to use preference points.

[bubba]

In 6A I have yet to talk to a qualified land owner that has been denied for a dmp. I have on the other hand talked to hunters with 5 preference points that have been denied. The way it was explained to me was qualified land owners get them on a first come first serve basis and everyone else get put in the lottery for the remaining dmps. In the 4 years I applied I was always denied and there never seems to be any left over permits for 6A.

I hunted with two guys in 6a who own 70 acres. They were turned down twice for land pwners in 3 years. Two years ago I had 3 points and got turned down and got a permit in the mail. Last year I had 4 points and got a permit. This year I switched to land I own in 6c. I got turned down, but did not use my landowner advantage.

[gjs4]

Same statement as always- the state manages license sales....they know so little about deer numbers....if you dont know how many deer are there; how do you know how many should be harvested? whats the carrying capacity? How does the DEC age bucks? Why are bucks with less than 3" "tines" called antlerless? ..... all about revenue...the only bucks they care about are green

[wdswtr]

I have never been denied a landowner permit in 6k even in the years when they claim that chances for first permit are none. It has been said here a couple times but I do think alot of it is all about the person behind the counter. What does drive me nuts is these guys who have a low or none for second chance that just apply for a different area because maybe its close or maybe I will go over there and hunt and never go. It happens I know guys who have done it and theres not a dmp swap thread because guys got tags in areas they hunt. It takes away from the chances for the hunters that want that permit and get denied. There was a comment about the number of doe permits actually claimed as filled and I would take a bet that alot of those that arent are the ones who dont use them but hey they got that 2nd tag. The DEC has a tough job with the dmp system any way you look at it. Managing a doe herd in a WMU is darn near impossible, lets say there is 10000 acres of state land in a WMU 7m and in that 10000 acres the doe population is par or subpar to their goal but yet down the road 20 miles theres farms all over with an over abundance of doe and not to mention the overpopulated urban areas. The current system is a guessing game and thats it. What do they think all those does hanging out in grandma's back yard on mainstreet are just going to up and relocate to an area they can be hunted and controlled. The system in my opinion should be broken down into smaller areas but then we are going to hear about the micro managing of our herd and its all about the DEC trying to make more money of us hunters. I bet 99% of hunters spend more money on stupid shit for hunting than they do a license fee. Its a small fee in comparison to what they manage for us. How many of you buy lottery tickets and spend ten dollars weekly and dont even get a single plate of food for it. I dont mean to rant but man this drives me nuts. The complaints about Joe Blow shot 2 bucks and thats why we dont see monster running around, I for one am glad that every buck isnt a monster buck , it just makes it all the more special when and if we harvest one. The bottom line is the no matter what the DEC or anyone does its not going to please everyone ever.. Me Im thrilled to all hell that I can rifle hunt, shotgun hunt, muzzle loader hunt, bowhunt, crossbow hunt in this state. You look at some other states like Ohio and theres only a week of shotgun and a couple days of muzzlelaoder and a whole lot of bow. I prefer to bow hunt but dang diversity is awesome to have. The system may not be perfect but in my opinion the DEC has done a pretty darn good job with all it faces and the state of the economy we are in. Its like bitching about the company you work for that gives you a paycheck for your work to feed your family makes no sense to me at all.

Edited September 26, 2011 by wdswtr

[Ford]

I have never been denied a landowner permit in 6k even in the years when they claim that chances for first permit are none. It has been said here a couple times but I do think alot of it is all about the person behind the counter. What does drive me nuts is these guys who have a low or none for second chance that just apply for a different area because maybe its close or maybe I will go over there and hunt and never go. It happens I know guys who have done it and theres not a dmp swap thread because guys got tags in areas they hunt. It takes away from the chances for the hunters that want that permit and get denied. There was a comment about the number of doe permits actually claimed as filled and I would take a bet that alot of those that arent are the ones who dont use them but hey they got that 2nd tag. The DEC has a tough job with the dmp system any way you look at it. Managing a doe herd in a WMU is darn near impossible, lets say there is 10000 acres of state land in a WMU 7m and in that 10000 acres the doe population is par or subpar to their goal but yet down the road 20 miles theres farms all over with an over abundance of doe and not to mention the overpopulated urban areas. The current system is a guessing game and thats it. What do they think all those does hanging out in grandma's back yard on mainstreet are just going to up and relocate to an area they can be hunted and controlled. The system in my opinion should be broken down into smaller areas but then we are going to hear about the micro managing of our herd and its all about the DEC trying to make more money of us hunters. I bet 99% of hunters spend more money on stupid shit for hunting than they do a license fee. Its a small fee in comparison to what they manage for us. How many of you buy lottery tickets and spend ten dollars weekly and dont even get a single plate of food for it. I dont mean to rant but man this drives me nuts. The complaints about Joe Blow shot 2 bucks and thats why we dont see monster running around, I for one am glad that every buck isnt a monster buck , it just makes it all the more special when and if we harvest one. The bottom line is the no matter what the DEC or anyone does its not going to please everyone ever.. Me Im thrilled to all hell that I can rifle hunt, shotgun hunt, muzzle loader hunt, bowhunt, crossbow hunt in this state. You look at some other states like Ohio and theres only a week of shotgun and a couple days of muzzlelaoder and a whole lot of bow. I prefer to bow hunt but dang diversity is awesome to have. The system may not be perfect but in my opinion the DEC has done a pretty darn good job with all it faces and the state of the economy we are in. Its like bitching about the company you work for that gives you a paycheck for your work to feed your family makes no sense to me at all.

That is most likely the best post on the subject.

Populations can vary greatly in a WMU. Making them much smaller would work in an ideal world. But the logistics of that are not feasible. Cheaters, boundaries, just would be a mess, unfortunately.

[bubba]

I know I have said this enfore but it bears repeating. Last season there were numerous posts of people complaining not seeing deer and the population had been wiped out and the DEC had no clue what they were doing. Too many nuisance permits and poachers not getting caught. Ok so this fall some people do not get permits and suddenly the DEC has no clue what it is doing there are way too many deer and how can they do this. Which side of the coin do you want to call. I guess it depends on whether you see deer or do not get a permit. Change is good as long as it does not affect anyone. We are all armchair quarter backs including myself. I guess we should just make the best of the system we have in place.

[Doc]

I guess we should just make the best of the system we have in place.

Lol..... It's not like we have any choice anyway.

The problem is that most hunters hunt a relatively small amount of acreage, and then for some reason, they project their observations onto their entire WMU and expect DMP allocations accordingly. In reality, I have seen a huge difference in conditions from one property to an adjacent property.

What the DEC has to do is to take the harvest results from the whole WMU and apply their actions to every local part of that WMU. What that does is to make neither the hunters nor the DEC correct for every hunting property in that WMU.

So if you think the DEC doesn't really have a clue about the situations exactly where you hunt ....... You're probably right. If you think you have the inside scoop on what is going on across your WMU you're probably wrong.

If you ever expect to see all that change, you're probably wrong.

Yes, we probably all have a laundry list of actions that we believe the DEC should take to fix deer management problems in NYS. Chances are pretty good that the items on that list are incorrect, unnecessary, or not in the realm of practicality given the financial realities of this state. Does that mean that we don't have a right to express those opinions?..... Not a bit. It is always interesting to hear what people would do to solve "world hunger" as long as we don't take those thoughts to seriously .... lol. Who knows, maybe some day we will accidentally stumble onto something that actually does make a difference.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Id actually like to go back to last year and see what people said they didnt see any deer and then match that up with people that are complaining about no DMPs this year. It would be interesting to see if theres any correlation.

[G-Man]

i personally would like to see smaller wmu's i remember when 9w and 9m were 1 unit. change happens but its slow.. for those that see no deer but shoot ever deer that crosses their 10 acres you can control your own herd. My propery consistantly produces almost 8-10% of the entire town take... according to dec numbers. i know my property can withstand taking 10 doe a year off it without hurting our hunting next year. i guess its like this if you want to state to manage everything ok... but i'll manage my own within the guidelines they allow. not sure how i'll accomplish this if they go to no either sex tag for bow / muzzloader.. maybe apply for dmap...

[bubba]

I am sure there is a coorelation. In fact I would bet on it.

[Dave]

I realize that a DMU is a large area of land. But I also realize that when you fill out your reporting tag you have to indicate the nearest town or village. So within the unit they will know how many deer were taken in every town or village in that DMU. This information should be helplful in allocating DMU the following year provided the hunters call in their results, which I feel should be mandatory whether you are successful or not.

[Doc]

I realize that a DMU is a large area of land. But I also realize that when you fill out your reporting tag you have to indicate the nearest town or village. So within the unit they will know how many deer were taken in every town or village in that DMU. This information should be helplful in allocating DMU the following year provided the hunters call in their results, which I feel should be mandatory whether you are successful or not.

They may have some collected data by township, in fact I have copies of some of that town by town harvest data from the DEC for many of the years. However, whatever they learn about specific townships, they still allocate DMPs by WMU. So even though some particular town may show an over abundance of deer, the WMU allocation still relies on the average across the entire WMU which doesn't necessarily have to correlate. Even county figures do not effect DMP allocation.