Whats so hard about passing yearling bucks?

[punch]

I guess we need more education.

[nyslowhand]

AR is a single component within the overall QDM philosophy.

http://www.qdma.com/who-we-are/what-is-qdm/

[wztirem]

Guys want to continue shooting little bucks for the rest of lives, fine with me.  But I do believe in QDM, and that includes the full spectrum of it.  I enjoy the habitat work.  I also think that if more and more hunters followed QDM, there wouldn't be a need for AR.  I think I mentioned it earlier.

More power to the private concerns that wish to practice QDM! They can voluntarily practice or enforce AR in conjunction with their QDM programs. For those who hunt State Lands, it should always be matter of choice as to what deer to legally kill.

[SplitG2]

It's amazing how people lump AR with QDMA.  QDMA doesn't even use AR in any of their lectures, writings, website etc....If you have an issue with AR take it up with the state.  QDMA has many principles and one is to let yearlings walk...not 2 1/2 year old bucks etc....They say it's ok to take 2 1/2 year old bucks.  The states use AR to address this because the average Joe can't age deer on the hoof.  All I have ever seen on this site or others is that if you practice QDM you get attacked and get very strong oppinions thrown at you. 

[SteveB]

Iv'e never attacked anyone for practising QDM - or even hinted that doing so was wrong in any way.

I have and will contine to stand firm against any type of statewide mandatory AR.

And before the accuasations of spike shooter, brown and downer etc start, I have shot 2 bucks in the last 10 years - both would have been legal under AR and both where 1.5.

Get to shoot a lot of does, so letting any buck less then mature walk for now - passed probably over a 100 AR legal bucks in that time frame.

[Doc]

Actually, I guess I will second that thought. I have followed these AR threads quite closely, and I really can't remember anyone being attacked for private QDM activities.

[SplitG2]

SteveB, I didn't mention any names in my post so not sure why you need to explain yourself?  But there are three threads on here pertaining to some sort of AR and to say QDM guys don't get attacked is a joke, I also stated other forums as well.  I'm glad you pass up bucks and that's your right and telling you to do otherwise is not my business.  All I'm saying is alot of guys here lump AR and TDM with QDM and it's not.  This is all I'm saying.  Do I want to see AR implemented....couldn't careless.  I have stayed out of these post for many reasons because it gets exhuasting saying the same things over and over.  I'm at the stage in life where the actual harvesting of game is just a bonus.

[SteveB]

Split - sounded like you where painting with a broad brush - clear now you weren't.

I think there are a great many on either side who interchange AR and QDM equally. Phade did a magazine article a couple years back and interviewed me and a couple others on mandatory AR. I had the same opinion then as now and he put that in. In the next several weeks, I had no less then a doz hunters asked me why I could possibly be against QDM - when in fact QDM was never mentioned in the article - only AR. :

[wztirem]

It's amazing how people lump AR with QDMA.  QDMA doesn't even use AR in any of their lectures, writings, website etc....If you have an issue with AR take it up with the state.  QDMA has many principles and one is to let yearlings walk...not 2 1/2 year old bucks etc....They say it's ok to take 2 1/2 year old bucks.  The states use AR to address this because the average Joe can't age deer on the hoof.  All I have ever seen on this site or others is that if you practice QDM you get attacked and get very strong oppinions thrown at you.

QDM, I am all for it! God bless you guys who implement it for it is a win-win program for all !

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Did my part tonite!!! I let an 8pt,4pt, and spike walk!!!I think the 8 was a 2yr old and mabey 16in wide.He was a good one but with 700 acres of soybean and corn on our land....There will be bigger!!!!!

[burmjohn]

Wow, that's a lot of field, must be fun.

[rebal]

So I'm guessing he never applies for a doe permit then?

Not all NY state deer hunters are lucky enough to even see a buck of any age during the whole season.  That's not because they aren't good hunters,  they may be in an area that has few bucks and they may not have more than a few days to hunt.

Our NY hunters shouldn't be looking down their noses at other hunters with a judgmental attitude.  If the buck was legally taken, I have no problem with the hunter that took it.

  Not to mention the cost of license & tags and cost of meat in supermarket.  Age & rack of buck has nothing to do with health of deer herd.  A dead buck is a dead buck and the younger they are the more tender the meat.

[TheHunter]

Not to mention the cost of license & tags and cost of meat in supermarket.  Age & rack of buck has nothing to do with health of deer herd.  A dead buck is a dead buck and the younger they are the more tender the meat.

Age structure provides better reproductive health as well as better breeding behaviors, which results in a healthier herd. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Opinion

[TheHunter]

Opinion

As is everything you have posted on this thread.

A more natural age structure, protection of yearling bucks, and a better buck to doe ratio the herd will result in a more healthy herd.  Older bucks, even the 1.5's that are protected by AR's leads to smarter and more mature bucks.  A more mature buck is larger, giving them the chance to survive harsh winters.  A more mature buck has a great chance of evading predators.  As we all know the rut wears bucks down, they use their reserved fat stores.  In area's where the buck to do ratio is also out of whack, or area's where most bucks are harvested, combined with a harsh winter will result in buck deaths and or malnourished bucks.

Regardless, if we did have a proper age structure in place, which is what I was originally pointing out, the more mature and healthiest bucks would be the ones doing a majority of the breading.  Where an age structure exists is when bucks have the change to fight, and prove dominance, and the most fit and healthiest bucks would be doing the breeding...

[SteveB]

All the deer I've shot in the last 10 years around me appeared to be healthy and fat. In fact I can't recall seeing any deer killed by others or the 100's of live ones seen that seemed sickly in any way.

[Doc]

Actually, it's true. The herd does seem to be as healthy or healthier than ever, and I haven't heard of any real problems with reproductive rates or results. We still seem to encounter frequent years when the herd has to be thinned. All this without the benefit of AR. Maybe we just have a unique area here and the actual herd statewide really is in a condition of decline because of inappropriate age and gender structure, but I must say that I haven't really heard about that actually happening.

Doc

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Opinion

As is everything you have posted on this thread.

A more natural age structure, protection of yearling bucks, and a better buck to doe ratio the herd will result in a more healthy herd.  Older bucks, even the 1.5's that are protected by AR's leads to smarter and more mature bucks.  A more mature buck is larger, giving them the chance to survive harsh winters.  A more mature buck has a great chance of evading predators.  As we all know the rut wears bucks down, they use their reserved fat stores.  In area's where the buck to do ratio is also out of whack, or area's where most bucks are harvested, combined with a harsh winter will result in buck deaths and or malnourished bucks.

Regardless, if we did have a proper age structure in place, which is what I was originally pointing out, the more mature and healthiest bucks would be the ones doing a majority of the breading.  Where an age structure exists is when bucks have the change to fight, and prove dominance, and the most fit and healthiest bucks would be doing the breeding...

But the difference between you and me is.....I have never tried to pass opinion off as science or fact....which you continue to do.

[fasteddie]

Be careful or I will have to move this to the DEBATE Forum ! http://www.downsouthhuntingforums.com/images/smiles/angry_table_puter.gif[/img]

[myke123]

do you want deer meat or a rack is the ?

older the deer is to me it dont taste as good ill shoot what i see i can always buy a nice rack if i dont see one

if i dont kill it and let it pass someone else will shoot it if you want qdm get your own privite land and pass on small deer i hunt for meat not trophys its just me if i wasnt aloud to shoot a 4 pt buck i guess i wouldnt but as today if its brown its down

[burmjohn]

Sweet, brown its down.  :

[WNYBuckHunter]

do you want deer meat or a rack is the ?

older the deer is to me it dont taste as good ill shoot what i see i can always buy a nice rack if i dont see one

if i dont kill it and let it pass someone else will shoot it if you want qdm get your own privite land and pass on small deer i hunt for meat not trophys its just me if i wasnt aloud to shoot a 4 pt buck i guess i wouldnt but as today if its brown its down

Seeing as you have admitted to using bait on your trailcams, something tells me you would shoot whatever you want regardless of the laws.

[Fairgame]

At this point why even wait for a season to open.  Bait, Brown its down.  Good start for a Newbie.

[Frank]

I agree. My granfathers farm has been crapped on by my cousins. They kill everything and I had enough of it. I tried to talk to them about it and they took it the wrong way. All I asked them was if we could start letting bambies and does walk so we can get the population back up.

[TheHunter]

At this point why even wait for a season to open.  Bait, Brown its down.  Good start for a Newbie.

LOL