Good reason to stop smoking

[WNYBuckHunter]

Actually, it appears that "Big" tobacco must not have paid off enough politicians seeing how the government has done their best to put them out of business. So now government is trying their hardest to wrap themselves around everyone's personal lives. They're doing a damned good job of it too.

 

Yep, and the masses keep cheering it on.

[virgil]

The government would probably not 'wrap themselves around' the personal lives of smokers if the cost for their medical care weren't such a huge burden on Medicare and the taxpayers.

[Doc]

The government would probably not 'wrap themselves around' the personal lives of smokers if the cost for their medical care weren't such a huge burden on Medicare and the taxpayers.

Well, here's the deal that I just can't buy. This idea that smokers cost more in medical care than those that don't smoke. The assumption apparently is that if you don't smoke, you go through life without any ailments and then quietly pass in your sleep without costing anybody anything. Well folks, I hate to break it to you, but perhaps you should take a trip to a nursing home to see just what good health and longevity costs us. Most of the people there are not there because they smoked a pack of cigarettes (or more) each day. Smokers generally pass away at a much earlier age and die on theiir own dime. Ever wonder what kinds of cash those poor old souls in nursing homes eat up daily? Old age isn't cheap! Surprise .... surprise ... we all die and it is seldom "cheap". 

 

But anyway, even if we do accept the assumption that our living habits can cost extra money, I would like somebody to point out the clause in the Medicare and Medicaid legislation that gives the government control over our personal living habits.

 

Just imagine all the freedoms we can eliminate from diabetics with that philosophy of imagining extra costs involved with poor dietary habits. We can get to the point where we have a mandatory government approved diet. How about the cardio problems that are laid at the feet of "diet & exercise" ..... How far are you willing to go? Should we eliminate anything in our lives that could cause medical problems? How about a government mandate requiring compulsory exercise? Do you people think that tobacco is the end of this kind of thinking? It's only the beginning. Stay tuned ... as ridiculous as some of these remedies sound, believe me, there are a lot of people who have those kinds of things rolling around in their minds. 

 

Quitting tobacco use is a great idea, but it should be an issue of personal choice, not a mandate of government.

[virgil]

Nobody has ever implied that non-smokers live indefinitely and that they never incur medical expenses.  You have chosen to make that leap on your own.  Regardless, there is no question that smokers cost the system more than non-smokers.  This is not a debatable point.  Your argument seems to be that since everyone will eventually get sick and die that there is no reason to take any responsibility.  Smokers are knowingly putting themselves at greater risk and the public bears a cost because of it.  To deny that fact is foolish.  The reason that governments are trying to discourage people from smoking is because healthcare costs will go down for everyone, the government included, if there are fewer smokers.  Doc, you make a lot of statements on this subject that make no sense- there is no government mandate for people to stop smoking.  There may be a strong push from the government to discourage people from smoking, but that's not a mandate.  I agree that people should be free to do as they please, as long as their decisions don't have a negative impact on the public.  I wonder if all the freedom loving smokers would be willing to sign a waiver that states that they will personally bear the cost of any health care specifically related to illnesses that result from their choice to smoke.

[Doc]

There may be a strong push from the government to discourage people from smoking, but that's not a mandate.

Now there is a slick fine line if ever I heard one. The government has single handedly put cigarettes completely out of reach of the poor. Not a mandate? .... excellent playing with words, but not really fooling anyone. Come on, that kind of silliness is something I would expect from some kind of politician trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes. I doubt that many will actually buy into the kind of distinction you are trying to push. They have done everything but take the honest route of making tobacco illegal.

 

Regardless, there is no question that smokers cost the system more than non-smokers. This is not a debatable point.

I do debate that point because I don't think that the cost of maintaining old people into the nursing homes has been accounted for. I don't think that the routine handfuls of expensive medication that older people take daily has been accounted for either. I will not argue the point about which category of people are healthier, but I will say that non-smokers most likely live into that age of required 100% care and stay there long after smokers are dead and gone. And those that ignore the cost of the elderly likely will believe the statement in your quote. But you can't just count the cost up to age 50 and then stop counting ....lol.

 

The reason that governments are trying to discourage people from smoking is because healthcare costs will go down for everyone, the government included, if there are fewer smokers.

I love that soft-peddled phrasing of "discourage"..... lol. But anyway, assuming that healthcare costs are a legitimate justification for mandating standardized individual lifestyle habits, it sounds like you are ready to abdicate your lifestyle choices to the rule of the government. Most likely you believe the concepts of mandated government dictated diets, and required exercise programs are a good idea. I arrive at that because you seem to think such activities by the government are fine when it comes to tobacco. It really is the same mentality. Well, personally, that kind of capitulation to government control is something that I will never agree with.

 

I agree that people should be free to do as they please, as long as their decisions don't have a negative impact on the public.

Interesting thought. That little phrase can have very wide-ranging interpretations. Are you also in favor of the government using the same tactics of gross public service ads, and massive taxation being applied to those who are obese, or have unhealthy eating habits or some of these other kinds of harrassments aimed at forcing people to have regular exercise activities? How about some Twinkie taxes? Certainly there are plenty of studies that show links between these kinds of risky eating activities and catastrophic health problems. Why don't you come out in favor of government getting involved in these parts of your life? Or perhaps you do. How about if the government decided that red meat was unhealthy? Would you be in favor of punitive taxation on meat? Certainly you must be in favor of a good punitive tax being placed on sugar. I'm just curious where you draw the line when it comes to government intervention into your life .... all in the name of the negative public impacts. It seems to be ok with you when it is smokers that are on the receiving end of this government harrassment. I wonder how you feel about government intervention and harrassment into things that you engage in?

[Mr VJP]

You must realize, the Fed and state governments collect BILLONS in tax dollars every year from smokers and big tobacco companies. If the government stopped all smoking in the US tomorrow, the country would go bankrupt overnight. Do you really believe the government wants all smokers to quit? I don't think so.

Are they using smokers to fill tax coffers? I think so. Is the government their friend? No.

[virgil]

Doc, you make a lot of assumptions that are based on nothing but your own beliefs.

[Doc]

Doc, you make a lot of assumptions that are based on nothing but your own beliefs.

That basically is the definition of an "opinion". And I am not claiming that anything I have said is anything other than my own opinion that is based on logic and observation.

[Carbonelement]

Virgil i wonder if you would sign a waver for all the choices you make....i highly doubt you are the go to posterboy fpr health. You made a statement that we smokers cost everyone more money, find me some proof othet than your opinion. Then when you come across the number figure the taxes smokers and tabacco comps pay and subtract it. I have a feeling you may be eating your words. And if you truly care about the cost of your taxes why not fix the problem and make everyone go to work and pay into it. I am also wondering what you do for a living and how much money you really pay to taxes, then who you hire... Do you hire legit companies to work for you or illegal companies and pay them wadges they could barly live on and have to reach to the gov for support. I know this is way off topic but you are the one who wants to not pay so much cuz the choices of other look at the whole picture my friend and dont be so quick to point the fingure at someone else.

[Doewhacker]

Smokers cost us roughy 193 billion a year, mean while state and federal taxes bring in about 26 billion. The flood gates to taxing and charging more for insurance for smokers is old news, that all started years ago.

The idea that poor people don't smoke any more is also comical, in fact they make up the largest percentage of smokers.

[greg54]

Large percent of people that live in Western New York go and buy (or have someone buy for them) their cigarettes at the smoke shops on the Indian reservations. Are they still tax free?

[wooly]

Large percent of people that live in Western New York go and buy (or have someone buy for them) their cigarettes at the smoke shops on the Indian reservations. Are they still tax free?

Yup, just picked up 7 cartons this weekend for $106.

[hunterman7956]

Promised my Dad on his deathbed that I will strangle any cigarette executive  I ever meet on the spot . Anyone who smokes is in a bad position for they will leave their family hurting .And as far as I will go to jail for doing it I will go gladly ...

[Doc]

We probably should be strangling those that market sugary, greasy products that are laced with fats and other unhealthy ingredients. Let's at least be consistant.

[nyantler]

We probably should be strangling those that market sugary, greasy products that are laced with fats and other unhealthy ingredients. Let's at least be consistant.

Not to mention anything with preservatives in it, food grown with pesticides, and a variety of other toxic materials which just don't get the hype of tobacco products... We all know people that lived into their 90's that smoked their whole life.. yet, as intelligent people we don't assume that there is a correlation between smoking and longevity of life. Even with a huge growth in anti smoking ads and all that has been done in the last 40 years to reduce smoking (which it has)... lung disease still remains at the top of the list of killers. I will argue that a can of Spaghetti-O's is worse for you than a cigarette... and the government telling you what you should or should not be doing is worse than either of those things.

[virgil]

Or, we could try to educate people on the harmful effects of smoking and of eating garbage in hopes that they will make smarter decisions.  And, if that fails, we could make it more inconvenient for people to make these bad decisions through taxation.  If that fails, we can make people personally financially responsible for the repercussions of their life choices.

[Doc]

Or, we could try to educate people on the harmful effects of smoking and of eating garbage in hopes that they will make smarter decisions.  And, if that fails, we could make it more inconvenient for people to make these bad decisions through taxation.  If that fails, we can make people personally financially responsible for the repercussions of their life choices.

And now it is clear where the phrase "cradle to grave" came from. And even more scary is the fact that some of us actually believe in that sort of government.

[Doewhacker]

So you would rather pay for others treatment even if they don't pay in, sounds like you are a Socialist to me Doc.

[hunterman7956]

Hey doc sugar and fatty foods didn't kill my dad !  Smoking cigs did he smoked his whole life  till he reached 82 , If the cig industry didn't lie all these years about all the sh@t in cigs maybe then he could've quit .But they lied all these years and many families besides mine were affected by these lies . And the only consistant thing is you seem to have an almighty opinion on everything said on almost every  post..

[WNYBuckHunter]

Hey doc sugar and fatty foods didn't kill my dad !  Smoking cigs did he smoked his whole life  till he reached 82 , If the cig industry didn't lie all these years about all the sh@t in cigs maybe then he could've quit .But they lied all these years and many families besides mine were affected by these lies . And the only consistant thing is you seem to have an almighty opinion on everything said on almost every  post..

 

Come on, it was his choice. Anyone that wants to quit can. People need to take responsibility for their choices instead of pawning the blame off on someone or something else.

[Water Rat]

Yup, just picked up 7 cartons this weekend for $106.

 

Wow.......That's 70 packs for $106.00  which breaks down to $1.50 a pack. Please tell me your joking !

Almost makes me want to take up smoking again...........God I miss it.

 

[jjb4900]

Hey doc sugar and fatty foods didn't kill my dad !  Smoking cigs did he smoked his whole life  till he reached 82 , If the cig industry didn't lie all these years about all the sh@t in cigs maybe then he could've quit .But they lied all these years and many families besides mine were affected by these lies . And the only consistant thing is you seem to have an almighty opinion on everything said on almost every  post..

I can't imagine anyone thinking sucking smoke into your lungs is healthy or at the very least not good for you, regardless of whether or not the cigarette companies hid all the crap that was in them. 

[Doc]

Hey doc sugar and fatty foods didn't kill my dad !  Smoking cigs did he smoked his whole life  till he reached 82 , If the cig industry didn't lie all these years about all the sh@t in cigs maybe then he could've quit .But they lied all these years and many families besides mine were affected by these lies . And the only consistant thing is you seem to have an almighty opinion on everything said on almost every  post..

I have never had anyone from the tobacco industry force a cigarette into my hand. I will also say that I do not take my marching orders from any tobacco company. I do take responsibility for my own decisions (good and bad) as opposed to randomly blaming others. I've been around a lot of years and I can't say I was ever confused about the fact that smoking is bad for you. I also don't know anyone else who was unaware about health risks with smoking. So when it comes to looking to assign blame, make sure you put it where it belongs.

 

And as far as my having opinions, I believe that that is the main purpose of internet forums. If you find yourself opinion-challenged, that's your problem, not mine, but don't be whining about people having and expressing opinions.

[hunterman7956]

first cig ads in the 40s and thru the 80s kind of brainwashed people into thinking that cigs were not bad for you .

second it is very easy for anyone to say you can quit this or that and yes some do but for the greater majority of us it is a monumental thing to overcome just look at all the sites to help you quit smoking

third it has been proven that there were additives put in cigs to give you the urge to smoke even though you knew it is harmful. This was and is the cause of addiction in smokers.

and doc I am not one to whine I just stated the obivious that you have an opinion on every subject on these forums.

Maybe for some of you it never hit home ,watching your loved one die a horrible slow agonizing death gasping for air and I pray it never does but I know this firsthand and wouldn't ever comment on someones loss  the way some of you do ....

I know it is easy to say things on the internet but in a face to face conversation I would hope you had more class than to berate or justify a loved ones death no matter how it occurred .Sometimes it is better to say nothing don't you agree ?

[Paula]

Wow.......That's 70 packs for $106.00  which breaks down to $1.50 a pack. Please tell me your joking !

Almost makes me want to take up smoking again...........God I miss it.

 

 

NOooo