Highly recommended read for Antler Restriction

[jjb4900]

here's my study, me and the guys I hunt with used to be able to go hunting in our area and enjoy ourselves, make our own choices as to whether or not we wanted to shoot a certain buck or pass on it. A few years ago AR's were forced down our throats and now we no longer can make our own choices..........the result of my study is that I've come to the conclusion that mandatory AR's suck.

[Nomad]

I hunt a 3,000 acre farm with it owns AR rules,many many farms around us arg on board as well,it's worked very well. Not every land owner is on board,no biggie their land do as they please.

Where Tony lost me was the " refused to be educated" , hum sounds like Tony Sorprano...

Or this guy

Captain, Road Prison 36: What we've got here is... failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it... well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men.

[moog5050]

Or this guy

Captain, Road Prison 36: What we've got here is... failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it... well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men.

 

True Classic

[foothills habitat]

So you informally surveyed your members and concluded the majority in 5S and T want AR's. Shocking results don't you think being that your chapter is built around forcing AR's in MY area.

 

The last survey was in 2013, to the general public, landowners, hunters, etc.     My point was to provide background and facts, that are often lacking or misinterpreted,   and the reasons why SWCFFH and the UHRV Branch Support it in these units.  Its not being forced.

 

A Super Majority of people in these DMUs want a regulation change.  DEC only recognizes the Federation, and if our County Federation worked the way that it is supposed to work ( on paper and in theory ) it would have been a done deal long ago.    

 

And as far as "refused to be educated" what I mean is "refuse to have an open mind and recognize the biological and scientific facts".   

[Doewhacker]

Do your self a favor and search up one the many AR threads here, it will be easier to do that than repeat everything.

[phade]

The last survey was in 2013, to the general public, landowners, hunters, etc.     My point was to provide background and facts, that are often lacking or misinterpreted,   and the reasons why SWCFFH and the UHRV Branch Support it in these units.  Its not being forced.

 

A Super Majority of people in these DMUs want a regulation change.  DEC only recognizes the Federation, and if our County Federation worked the way that it is supposed to work ( on paper and in theory ) it would have been a done deal long ago.    

 

And as far as "refused to be educated" what I mean is "refuse to have an open mind and recognize the biological and scientific facts".   

 

If he listened to your schtick....then said thanks but no thanks, what would your position be then? I suspect the same as what you are pushing now.

 

If he doesn't want to drink your kool aid, I don't see that as convincing to mean that you should legislate it. To me, on face value, it appears you want to control what he does on his ground for your own personal reasons (your co-op). Is this not correct?

[foothills habitat]

It's not 'my' Cooperative where these things have occured.   The old school mentality here is strong, especially when we grew up with very few deer and no doe seasons.  Things have changed - the habitat, land ownership, human and deer populations.   Personally & honestly, my cooperative area folks are all on the same page.   The folks I am talking about don't give anyone the courtesy of a listen.   Not every area of New York is the same.      I agree, sure - if it was one guy taking a deer, no biggie in the large scheme of things.  But when it's a dozen ?  Because they are easy pickings ?    Come on.    Obviosly we have DEC enforcement short - staffed issues like the rest of the State.    Education is key, I agree - most people get it.   But for the guy with 50 acres, and no cooperative - I think he feels better with the insurance that the buck he just passed isnt going to cross the fence and get hammered.    What they are trying to do is NOT a Nazi approach. 

 

I think what most people miss is that DEC restricts your harvest now, they tell you what you can and cant shoot, when you can do it, etc.   If it didnt matter why do they have to have  antlers at all ? 

[Doewhacker]

Why don't you let the guy with 50 acres come hunt on the co-op then?

By the way I live in 5s, there is no shortage of mature deer even with the heavy pressure.

[G-Man]

first and formost, it is a hunters desire to kill a large mature buck, same as catching the biggest fish. It only effects the age structure of a herd to let young ones walk, as for shortng and more intense rut, seems to benifit the hunter not the deer, yearling and buttons can and do breed. and bucks do not run themselfs to death, they are infact more succeptible to injury when the buck to doe ratio is closer to 1 to 1 as they now must fight for every doe they breed,resulting in broken horns , puncture wounds, possible loss of eyes. causing much more chance to die in a bad winter. The state needs to manage numbers not age. AS for it working in iowa, kansas,illnois,ect... check the hunter numbers per acre there! you want bigger older deer , just eliminate 400,000 of our 650,000 hunter in nys..perhaps a lottery? then more deer survive and get older... for what i pay in taxes on my recreational property i should be paid for providing a place for the deer to live/feed. perhaps 1 hunter per 50 acres is the optimal number to let deer live.

[nyantler]

tection mium AR'sAR's

That's not the way I heard it. Most initial AR decisions were legislatively driven. The DEC has said that there is no biological imperative that suggests that AR is required in their management activities. And that AR decisions are based on social wants and needs. That is not exact wording but captures the essence of statements made by Jeremy Hurst (DEC head biologist). In other words, AR has been implemented in certain WMUs because of political pressure and mandates to do so. I never heard any DEC personnel ever say that AR was required for the health of any part of the state herd, and as pointed out above, they have said exactly the opposite.

The statements you're referring to were made about the necessity for a statewide mandate only and whether or not it was imperative at this time to implement them statewide. If you were to ask those same biologists what is the best means of establishing an optimum buck age structure they would answer... younger buck protection. I do agree that they have never came out and said that mandatory AR's are necessary... because there is no imminent herd heath issues at this time in NY, but anyone who believes that the biologists in NY do not think that protecting younger bucks is a good management tool need to actually ask that question of the biologist.. I have and have gotten the same answer from all I've asked... they think passing on younger bucks is a good idea.

 

Just clearing up the myth that biologists don't think that AR's have any biological benefit in managing whitetails... they do... just not as they pertain to the current management goals for NY. and I tend to agree.

[Nomad]

Random thoughts on this. I've been deer hunting since the late 70 's or so, I remember having to have 3 guys for a party permit....

Now the farm I hunt had AR's for years before I got put under them as my section was far removed from the main farm. In the 5 or has it been 6 years since I shot 2 bucks that made the farms cut off and one opps that was not the one I thought it was ,the first year.i had to sweat loosing my spot for that for quite some time......

Prior to that I shot bucks each year,not as big but I was happy. Now I shoot a bigger one every 2 or 3 years and I'm although I love the fact I have a great spot to hunt and they treat me like gold,once I went 2 years with no buck,it kinda sucked.

Just because we have bigger bucks,and we do ,does not mean you ll get one every year or even 2 .

I can hunt a few days a week without taking any time off,yet I take between 3 and 5 weeks off a year in deer season.

Many of my friends have 4 or 5 day to hunt ! Hunting means as much to them as me,but owning companies,and having jobs who's busy season is during hunting season limits their time afield .its a major struggle to get them on the AR bandwagon.they are happy to say I shot a 6 or 8 . So be it.

I truely feel we re driving these guys right out of hunting. Oh you need 6 stands,cameras,take all your vacation time in deer season pass up young bucks and on and on.

I hunt because my Dad did,all his gear was a zippo hand warmer ,fixed blade knife and pocket watch style compass. That was it outside of a gun and clothes.he went opening day and Thanksgiving week end. Today you have to spend thousands of dollars ,weeks afield and if you shoot a young buck your just not listening .....

[SteveB]

What they are trying to do is NOT a Nazi approach. 

 

 

Wrong - that is exactly what you are doing.

Do it your way or we legislate to ensure "correct" educated thinking.

[NFA-ADK]

The facts are simple.  Better herd management through forced AR.  The science is proven yet still they say NO NO NO I want to shoot what I want.  Just like when a season was enforced, then bag limits, 3 inch rule and now AR.  While I understand the theory and agree with it, I do not like forced regulations.  

 

But if the majority wants it, then it will be done.  Does not affect me but I would rather let others choose what regulations they want to follow.  I am all for this but have changed my mind on wanting it enforced.  As much as I argue with many here on many subjects I would hate to stop those hungry meat eaters from filling there freezer due to my enthusiasm for mature whitetails. 

 

One additional benefit I can not overlook is buck mortality.  This resulting higher impact of the rut would allow massive fawn production at the same time overwhelming predators and if an extreme winter persist the surviving doe would help repopulate the area.  We have not had a bad winter in a while, hope this one is good to them.

 

Just like in camp I enforce my own AR when I hunt but I don't force my code of hunting on others.  And I would never put someone down for taking a deer I would pass, they get a big high five!  Plus I encourage anyone to get the first deer down what ever it is.  One thing is for sure, if you guys who oppose it do not do anything it will go through in many areas. 

 

 

[gjs4]

Unless it will sell more licenses it will not happen in NY.

 

I am all about more mature bucks but saving a few bucks with 3 pts on one side isnt a win. The only bonus is the finger pullers may slow down to look before they spray. NY hunters are ignorant lazy slobs who do not want to be burdened by instruction. The same guy who says its his right to shoot a buck will pass 10 does and give no regard to the herd health or what his contribution is doing for other hunters. It doesnt even have to be about racks- just herd dynamics and health. The DEC and the orange army ONLY care about themselves in the moment theyre in.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I know i like what i am seeing in the ar area i hunt. By the way its getting so hard to get a permit to get on the property there are a bunch of other hunters that feel the same.

[the blur]

When I 1st started hunting, I couldn't care less about horns.   It was meaningless to me.    After reading the interweb for all these years, now I want a nice rack on my wall !!!!!   All of you are to blame .