Here's a fight starter

[Suilleabhain]

DEC is back to mulling the AR question. Do you like AR or do you think it is better to let hunters decide. This goes back to the old discussion: a deer that only has spikes in its first year will never grow a trophy set of antlers so do we inprove the gene pool by killing those spikes or do we have AR and kill off the trophy gene animals and further dilute the gene pool by saving the spikes?

 

I'm not taking sides, I'm reporting what is being discussed at DEC.

[crappyice]

Just to heat people up since I am about to get on the road already(alaram goes off at 3:30 for me on hunting days)and all you bastards with a 1/2 total commute to treestand are still sleeping...AR's remove the genetically superior specimens from the herd and as a result reduce the chance of big buck later. This is not my opinion but one that I heard against AR's - thought I would share to tick people off!

Have fun!

Edited October 27, 2013 by crappyice

[growalot]

Pro choice

[Early]

Hunter's Choice....

[sweet old bill]

I guess at 72 a old fart like me, likes the idea that we take bucks that have 3 points on a side or more, let the little guys get bigger. I also would like the DEC to make it take only one buck a year, your choice of using crossbow, compound bow, traditional bow, shotgun, rifle were permitted and or black powder. But one buck only....

[Cabin Fever]

There's enough "Fight Starter" threads on this site, without you purposely instigating one. I hope members have sense enough not to bite! There have been many posts already about how members feel about AR. If you spend some time reading on the forum, you will find out how members feel about AR, if you really care or just want to kick a hornets nest for your enjoyment. Really NO need to get another post started about it!

[nybuckboy]

It is my understanding that a first year spike has the potential to mature into a trophy if given the time to grow.

[Cory]

Obviously it's a hunters choice on what we harvest. IMO no buck should be killed unless it's a 6 or better there are plenty of does to be killed . So let the bucks grow.

[SteveB]

Obviously it's a hunters choice on what we harvest. IMO no buck should be killed unless it's a 6 or better there are plenty of does to be killed . So let the bucks grow.

Even though that deer could very well be a 1.5 - same as the spike.

[WesternNY]

Hasn't this been discussed enough here... and discussion here isn't going to change for or against.  You need to voice your opinion to the DEC.

[WesternNY]

DEC is back to mulling the AR question. Do you like AR or do you think it is better to let hunters decide. This goes back to the old discussion: a deer that only has spikes in its first year will never grow a trophy set of antlers so do we inprove the gene pool by killing those spikes or do we have AR and kill off the trophy gene animals and further dilute the gene pool by saving the spikes?

 

I'm not taking sides, I'm reporting what is being discussed at DEC.

 

This is complete nonsense..... a spike can and do grow into great bucks.  This is basic deer biology.  Also you CAN NOT affect the gene pool in wild free ranging deer... basic biology.  Also the does genes make up impacts the buck off-springs antler potential, yes this is true.

 

Here is a WNY buck that was a spike.  He has a distinct white nose and easy to keep tabs on, he is a 3 year old now.

 

 

Here is info from Charlie Alshimer on spikes

Q: Are spikes genetically inferior?

A: No. In most cases, spike bucks are not inferior. The old adage "once a spike, always a spike" could not be further from the truth. There are seven primary reasons why a yearling buck grows spike antlers and only one of the seven involves genetics. A one-year-old spike buck is equivalent to a twelve-year-old boy. The fact that his body is still in its early stages of development makes it very difficult to predict what he might one day become. It won't be until age three or four that you will have a good idea of what his potential is.

 

Here is about genetics

http://www.qdma.com/articles/why-we-cant-manage-deer-genetics

 

Mis-management bucks

http://www.qdma.com/corporate/mis-management-bucks

 

 

I am amazed on how many people state completely inaccurate statements.   All deer hunters don't have to become wildlife managers but get some basic education and insight before.

Edited October 27, 2013 by WesternNY

[SteveB]

And one fact is if you shoot a 6 pt at 1.5 it never gets older.

[ItalianHunter5]

Just like when they send out the Turkey reports to random hunters, they should do the same for this. I am against AR's but if possible they should mail a survey to licensed NY hunters and who ever cares will send it back. Depending on results, which I think would probably favor no AR's, they can study more and make a decision. Yes it should be hunter's choice but if they are seriously considering it, they should talk to us as the hunters first.

[thphm]

I guess at 72 a old fart like me, likes the idea that we take bucks that have 3 points on a side or more, let the little guys get bigger. I also would like the DEC to make it take only one buck a year, your choice of using crossbow, compound bow, traditional bow, shotgun, rifle were permitted and or black powder. But one buck only....

 

X2 ,100%.

[bluecoupe]

Hunters choice.  I guess I don't understand why they'd curtail taking any of them in areas where there are more deer than you can shake a stick at.   Me personally? While I wouldn't pass a big one up, they're really not what I'm after.

Anyone have a link to info indicating that they're thinking on it again?

Edited October 27, 2013 by SteveC

[Five Seasons]

They should legalize crossbows first. I should be able to hunt with what I want. Spears too.

[bluecoupe]

They should legalize crossbows first. I should be able to hunt with what I want. Spears too.

 

I agree 100%, but it's that a different argument that I'm positive has been hashed out here to death? (pun intended. )

[silent death]

I don't think a Ar would work around here who would enforce it

down here bye me I've never seen dec unless they we're

called i called them once on trespassers and it took them over a hour to

show up...i hunt 360 acres of property and only have seen

a couple nice 8 points... there should be a lot ...there's a lot of

guys here shooting deer with guns already cause thers no dec

presence.....i don't care what Ar is in place unless your

neighboring propertys believe in qdma thenits a loss anyway

I've let smaller bucks walk and heard them bein shot at 15 minutes later

....ill let smaller bucks walk but if i don't get a deer bye mid gun season

then anything is on the hit list...and I've killed 4 pointers on my property that

wer aged at 6 ..so don't believe the hype about older deer have bigger antlers

[ELMER J. FUDD]

If it's so popular. Let everyone practice it on their own. There is no need for a law to force it.

[Csk21]

I hunt on a family dairy farm. We don't shoot anything less that 8's. Problem is a lot of our land borders state land and you get guys going in that will shoot small bucks that they wouldn't on their own property. I've let a lot of small ones walk just to see them in the back of a pickup on the way out. My opinion is If you want meat take a nice doe and let the little guys walk

[Csk21]

There is also the safety aspect. We've all heard stories about people getting shot and killed because they were mistaken for deer. ARs, such as three or better on one side, would force hunters to not be so quick on the trigger and positively identify what they are shooting at

[ELMER J. FUDD]

DEC is back to mulling the AR question. Do you like AR or do you think it is better to let hunters decide. This goes back to the old discussion: a deer that only has spikes in its first year will never grow a trophy set of antlers so do we inprove the gene pool by killing those spikes or do we have AR and kill off the trophy gene animals and further dilute the gene pool by saving the spikes?

I'm not taking sides, I'm reporting what is being discussed at DEC.

How do you know the DEC is considering AR again? Was there a bulletin or a survey? What is your source?

[ELMER J. FUDD]

There is also the safety aspect. We've all heard stories about people getting shot and killed because they were mistaken for deer. ARs, such as three or better on one side, would force hunters to not be so quick on the trigger and positively identify what they are shooting at

That's a good point. However they already have a better reason to know your target and beyond...PRISON! lol.

Edited October 27, 2013 by ELMER J. FUDD

[bluecoupe]

How do you know the DEC is considering AR again? Was there a bulletin or a survey? What is your source?

 

Dunno, I asked that quite a while ago and was met with silence.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

I hunt on a family dairy farm. We don't shoot anything less that 8's. Problem is a lot of our land borders state land and you get guys going in that will shoot small bucks that they wouldn't on their own property. I've let a lot of small ones walk just to see them in the back of a pickup on the way out. My opinion is If you want meat take a nice doe and let the little guys walk

So, the guys driving away with small bucks told you they have their own land and that they wouldn't shoot such a small buck if it was on their land?